Sevilla 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Take a look at the 3rd goad conceded. When the fecking captain standing around the box nothing much to do defending a last minute corner, one would expect him to mark the nearest opposition player but no he fecking strolled and only put in a block in the last minute but it was already too late. Hendo is going to cost you big time klopp

I thought the exact same.

I'll have to watch it again but I rememeber thinking at the time that was hendersons man - hendo certainly appeared to be the closest to him.

But hendo wasn't actually marking anybody, he wasn't even part of the zonal marking, he was just standing around.

That's our skipper. In a European away game defending a lead in stoppage time. Yep, that's our captain.

Please can we give Robertson a chance now, we all knew fuckwit Moreno was waiting in the wings, biding his time, and wow did he ever make an impact on his return, the fact that Klopp hauled him off speaks volumes.
In reality a draw was a good result for us and barring a 4-0 loss to Spartak we are through to the next round, but it feels like a really heavy loss tonight.

Honestly mate, just turn it in.

You're just arguing for arguments sake now.

He had said he hadn't seen the game so couldn't comment on it.  If he watches it and says he was good then that's a different thing I suppose

http://twitter.com/Millar_Colin/status/933118392776527872

Well on that note I'll turn in for the night. Not often that I can rid a result like that off my back so soon but hearing that has. Of course I'm still not happy but it softens the blow because it is nice to see what others can do when they rally and raise spirit for greater purposes.

Certainly puts it all into context.

Please can we give Robertson a chance now, we all knew fuckwit Moreno was waiting in the wings, biding his time, and wow did he ever make an impact on his return, the fact that Klopp hauled him off speaks volumes.

I hope this Robertson lads as good as some people have been building him up.  Klopp did take Moreno off yeah - fair enough.  He took Lovren off against Spurs though and was going to play him in the next game till he got injured so who knows.

As it is I think he'll probably give him the game off anyway.

His foul outside the box was unnecessary as was the one he got the yellow card for first half.  Think he didn't have much choice but to try and win the ball that conceded the pen though - wasn't reckless. 

The fact that Robertson hasn't really been getting a look in on the bench doesn't suggest to me however that he is Paolo Maldini and pulling up trees in training, so I hope your hopes for him aren't too high.

I would not be amazed if the team landed on Saturday evening and Milner was left back.

Well on that note I'll turn in for the night. Not often that I can rid a result like that off my back so soon but hearing that has. Of course I'm still not happy but it softens the blow because it is nice to see what others can do when they rally and raise spirit for greater purposes.

Certainly puts it all into context.

Bit of a cynical ploy to choose that particular time to announce something like that though, don't you think?

He had said he hadn't seen the game so couldn't comment on it.  If he watches it and says he was good then that's a different thing I suppose

It was the 'he will have an amazing game next week but nobody will notice' line that annoyed me after witnessing one of the worst midfield performances in Europe from a liverpool player I've ever seen never mind captain.

It's not the time to say anything positive about Henderson.

that second half was terrifying tbh. completely caved in and had no control of anything the entire half.
dont care what anybody says about form this season, i dont see us winning a thing with the likes or moreno/lovren regular members of the team. we have a pretty large sample to go on dont we?

its an absolute kick in the balls tho. literally 2 mins away from topping the group, real chance to rotate the squad in a dead game gone.

I think you need to stop hanging players for individual errors they are part and parcel of the game. Look at the game holistically, up 3-0 and cruising  there was a deliberate tactic to sit back and invite pressure on a fragile defense at best when the setup in first half was working. We looked comfortable without having to exert too much pressure.

Don't think too much coaching nous is required to observe we we're completely over run in the midfield for the first 15 minutes of second half. Bring on Can and playing a lower block should have happened after the first goal was conceded.

I’m hardly hanging players when I’ve been saying its probably the only thing he has done notably wrong this season. You fail to miss that part out.

Secondly, you saying about me hanging players for their individual mistakes that directly lead to us conceding a goal but yet you will put 150% of the blame on Klopp for the result. Was Klopp who dived in to give away a free kick? Was it Klopp who didn’t have awareness of the player making a run? Was it Klopp who failed to control a pass and then tripped a player in the box? No.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

You are putting the blame on the full back, forget that, as I was trying to say, it that has happend many times before, and we bottled it, where's the leadership, do you deny we had the game won, again?
It was'nt just Moreno, he was the catalist, but everyone else fell apart

I’m not putting the blame on Moreno but it’s clear as day for everyone to see, who gave away the free kick? Who didn’t see the player making a run for the header from that free kick? Moreno.

Who failed to control a pass and as a result tripped a player in the box? Moreno.
That’s not me pinning the blame on anyone for the sake of it, that is stating what happened.
You say Moreno was the catalyst yourself so how is that me putting the blame on him because you are admitting yourself the same facts that I have just stated.

You will also see in the match thread that I done a post saying that it’s games like this that evidently shows up a real lack of leadership within the team. I will find it for you if you really want me to?

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2017/11/sevilla-3-liverpool-3-match-review/

good grief.....

spoken to 2 of my mates who are there, similarly they say its been an absolute shambles.

Reading the pass accuracy stats for this entire team tonight is terrifying.

Weird game. Only just calming down. The only goal we could have mitigated against this evening was the last one with Klavans wonky header. Their first goal was a great set piece, pen was unlucky probably was as there qas contact but their diving antics all game drove me mad. Whole squad to blame for the result. Just gave the ball back repeatedly in that second half. Were we much better than them too if we'd got our act together. Thought Can did great coming on. We could have already topped the group and had a game off to rest the legs in a bust period, idiots.

Bit of a cynical ploy to choose that particular time to announce something like that though, don't you think?

I'm a bit suspect on the half time announcement part as well.

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2017/11/sevilla-3-liverpool-3-match-review/

good grief.....

spoken to 2 of my mates who are there, similarly they say its been an absolute shambles.

Spanish police in Sevilla have always been cu*ts to English football fans. Loads of English team's fans going there have been battoned by those arseholes.

Absolute c**t behaviour from our stewards and club officials too.

https://twitter.com/MattVanenburg/status/933120831366025217

First, hoping our supporters who got roughed up by the cops are OK and getting home safely.

Second, it would have been an OK result except for the way it happened.

Mainly though, it's just disappointing to see some old maladies return, the disastrous play at left back and the midfield being such a non-factor. We've been going along so well but it was 45 minutes that I'd love to forget but instead will keep me awake.

I should also add that Lovren played a good game tonight - have to give him credit for that. Some people are slagging Raggy for not heading clear on the final goal, but where was anyone else to challenge for the 2nd ball? How did Hendo manage to gift Seville possession for the shot that led to the corner when all he had to do is control with no pressure and clear? Why couldn't Milner find an unmarked Ox in front of goal just before that to put the game to bed? How does Moreno manage to be the key player in both of their first two goals? Please Jürgen, let's see Robertson vs. Chelsea on Saturday.

Would have been one of our best European nights in quite a while, but instead it's just a remnder that overall, we are not quite there yet.

First, hoping our supporters who got roughed up by the cops are OK and getting home safely.

Second, it would have been an OK result except for the way it happened.

Mainly though, it's just disappointing to see some old maladies return, the disastrous play at left back and the midfield being such a non-factor. We've been going along so well but it was 45 minutes that I'd love to forget but instead will keep me awake.

I should also add that Lovren played a good game tonight - have to give him credit for that. Some people are slagging Raggy for not heading clear on the final goal, but where was anyone else to challenge for the 2nd ball? How did Hendo manage to gift Seville possession for the shot that led to the corner when all he had to do is control with no pressure and clear? Why couldn't Milner find an unmarked Ox in front of goal just before that to put the game to bed? How does Moreno manage to be the key player in both of their first two goals? Please Jürgen, let's see Robertson vs. Chelsea on Saturday.

Would have been one of our best European nights in quite a while, but instead it's just a remnder that overall, we are not quite there yet.

Very good post and difficult to argue with any of it.

I think your last line is key. We're the frauds of football really aren't we? It's always one step forward and then two back with Liverpool. We can smash anybody on our day but when it really comes down to it such as handing medals out, we don't come anywhere close. Bottle jobs.

The commentator said earlier that it will be the first time in 9 years Liverpool have reached the knock out stages if we do go through - how grim is that?

I think it's part of the problem too. Some people have forgotten already the calibre of players we once had over the many years gone by and now the likes of Jordan Henderson and Moreno are accepted amongst our fan base.

Its sad, and the truth is we need to upgrade on quite a few of our squad if we want to be challenging for number 19 and number 6. With this current lot, and particularly our back four/skipper, we won't win sh*te.

Aswell as Moreno and Henderson I think Gini is getting off lightly. Thought he was none existent, too. Him and Hendo should not happen.

I almost forgot Gini was playing in the second half.

I'm getting sick to death of the type of football we play at times. Our games might be great entertainment for neutrals, but we can go from cruising in a game to all out F***ing chaos with a massive momentum swing in an instant.

Checked the corner that led to 3-3: Mistake from Karius. He has to go to that ball. It sails into his goalie box and in a situation like this (2-3, 60s to go) you wanna avoid any risk, use at least your fists and the ball flies 20m away, no harm done. A good keeper would have done it, Karius has no presence within the box, no swagger, no authority. That's why Migs is the better one (and that says more about Karius than about Migs, but to be fair this was the only mistake Karius did).

I’m hardly hanging players when I’ve been saying its probably the only thing he has done notably wrong this season. You fail to miss that part out.

Secondly, you saying about me hanging players for their individual mistakes that directly lead to us conceding a goal but yet you will put 150% of the blame on Klopp for the result. Was Klopp who dived in to give away a free kick? Was it Klopp who didn’t have awareness of the player making a run? Was it Klopp who failed to control a pass and then tripped a player in the box? No.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Don't get precious about it calling me a hypocrite.

All the scenarios you have highlighted are individual errors and mistakes that happen week in week out and if they didn't every game would end up a dour 0-0 draw. Ultimately every time a team scores a goal someone on the receiving end has made an error or mistake whether it be positioning, timing, awareness etc. somewhere in the build up.

Where Klopp gets it wrong for me is the team setup in the second half and being slow to react with his substitutes, never should have waited to concede 2 goals to hook two players and replace one of them to supplement a change in formation (Can).

Not the first time we have capitulated like this under Klopp either think Norwich, Bournemouth and the EL Final to a degree.

Don't get me wrong love the man but he got it wrong and needs to take responsibility for it.

Checked the corner that led to 3-3: Mistake from Karius. He has to go to that ball. It sails into his goalie box and in a situation like this (2-3, 60s to go) you wanna avoid any risk, use at least your fists and the ball flies 20m away, no harm done. A good keeper would have done it, Karius has no presence within the box, no swagger, no authority. That's why Migs is the better one (and that says more about Karius than about Migs, but to be fair this was the only mistake Karius did).

For the love of God, I hope you're joking.

He isn't getting to that ball in a million years. Look at the distance he has to cover and the speed at which that ball is coming in. You talk about wanting to avoid risk? Him staying on his line IS avoiding risk: the risk of him missing a ball that is out way too far and leaving an empty goal. He takes a step, sees that he isn't getting to it, stays on his line. It's the right decision. If he does try to get to it, the only thing you'd see is him flying into a group of players, completely missing the ball and getting blamed for "flapping at a corner". Our defenders in the first zone have to deal with that ball, never our goalkeeper.



We are set up absolutely perfectly to deal with that corner (Milner, Wijnaldum and Klavan are all in the zone the ball comes to). I posted a video of how we set up our zonal marking not too long ago in the tactics thread I think. We have 5 players marking the 6 yard box. One in the first zone, 4 along the 6 yard box. Then we usually have 3 players blocking runs (here they were Can, Gomez and Henderson) and our 2 quickest players on the edge of the box to go on the counter attack (Mane and Chamberlain).

The player that Henderson is supposed to be blocking (he doesn't get anywhere near him) is the one who gives Klavan (who I think also misjudged the flight of the ball a tiny bit) a slight push so he misses the header.

It's hard to really blame someone for this one. Klavan a bit, Henderson a bit, but also Gomez who steps inside and leaves his zone, the zone which the player who scores makes his run to.

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2017/11/21/sevilla-vs-liverpool-highlights/#2

HL English, 7:50 gives you a perfect view.

I think we've actually defended corners well this season. This is only the 2nd goal we've conceded from a corner? Both pretty identical, failed clearances in the first zone (Wijnaldum against Watford and now Klavan).

Moreno had a bad game.
His first bad game in quite a while and has been fully deserving of his place in the team up to this point.
In fact, I would have said that he was a guaranteed starter for me since the first couple of games of the season.
I think it’s a big ask to have robertson come in as left back at the weekend but he certainly needs to be given games very soon just to keep that position fresh
I put more blame for the capitulation on our midfield than our defense.
The lack of control in that area led to far too much pressure being out upon our defense in the second half.
Yes, Moreno made critical mistakes but it was brewing from the very first minute after half time.