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      Ferguson - All time great?

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      CRK
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      • JFT96 YNWA
      Ferguson - All time great?
      Mar 11, 2009 07:30:43 pm
      I wrote this article back in May 2008, shortly after United won the Champions League because people were touting Ferguson as the best manager of all time. Just thought it would be good timing to post it up here with our little scrap coming up at the weekend. I do hope you enjoy.

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      There's this common myth knocking about, which has been for some years now, that Alex Ferguson (he's not getting a Sir off me!) is the greatest football manager ever! Fair do's, the fella has won a fair bit, including the Premiership 10 times and the European Cup twice! He is decorated, I do know this!

      We have had a few managers who we think that would challenge this title that people in the media so often love to lay upon Ferguson.

      First up, we can compare directly to our previous managers! The men who command tears to grown men's eyes with the very thoughts of our yesteryear's! The Greats, Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley!

      First of all we've the great man from Glenbuck!  Here we have a man who took over a struggling Second Division side with mediocre training facilities and a stadium that was pretty much a shambles.  Shankly was brought in in 1959. This was a time when football was football, and that was it. You trained all week by playing regular games and then try and do the same on a matchday! What Shankly did was bring in 5 a side matches to increase passing skill, incorporate dietary elements so that our footballers were healthier and more readily equipped for the game. There was also the notion of a target wall, with 8 blocks painted on! Shankly demanded that his players be able to hit any box when commanded to!

      Players would meet at Anfield, and be bussed together to Melwood for training! Afterwards they'd be shipped back to Anfield to shower and eat a meal together, ensuring Shankly knew how his players were warming down and eating after sessions, whilst instilling a camaraderie between the squad! With Shankly building in the background, we eventually returned to the First Division in the 1961/1962 season! The 60's proved to be a good time for Liverpool! In 1963/1964, we claimed our 6th league title! Snatched from the Champions Everton! A sign of things to come I do believe!

      In '65, we all know of the Inter semi final! An unknown side from England had shocked the Italian giants away from home! It was basically our announcement that we had arrived on the scene and we were taking no sh*t! The working class ethic instilled by Shankly for the working class people of our great city was a joy to watch. Football that was skillful, thorough and efficient. Shankly had built up a club from nothing. From the training ground up, Shankly had created a Superpower. Yet this was only the start! The 70's saw Heighway, Keegan and Clemence arrive, along with our first European silverware in 1973, in the form of the UEFA Cup! while securing our 8th league title in the same year! 

      The difference between Shankly and Ferguson is simple! Ferguson took over a United side that was established in the top flight. They were basically Chelsea before Abramovich came in, just coasting finishing mid table regularly. Yet Ferguson took them a step backwards when he arrived, finishing 11th, 2nd (9 points behind us!), 11th and then 13th!  Surely if that happens these days, finishing 2nd and then 11th, there would be a severe inquest into what's going on!

      Shankly started, in modern day comparison, in the Championship, bottom half. And then brought this team up within two years and then guided us to winning leagues! Just think of what Sam Allardyce did, but then Bolton going on to win the league and the UEFA Cup!

      In July 1974, Shankly faced the Liverpool board to announce his retirement! The city mourned and even local factories threatened strikes unless Shankly was reinstated! Yet Shankly had left behind Joe Fagan, Roy Evans and my next subject. Bob Paisley.

      The sad thing, in Paisley's first seasons, Shankly was ever present and didn't really allow him to settle into the job! The players felt that Shankly was still the boss and Paisley was simply an understudy. This theory was to be tested!

      Paisley finished 2nd in his first season. This was a disappointment to him and he built on what he had achieved! For the 9 years that Paisley was at the helm, we won at least one trophy in 8 of those years!  And of course, he led us to our first 3 European Cups!

      Now the very fact is that Sir Bob won 19 trophies as Liverpool manager! Ferguson overtook this record, which he no doubt raised a glass of whisky, scotch or whatever else he could find in celebration of breaking a Liverpool record!

      But Ferguson has been at United for 22 years this season, and is now embarking on his 23rd season in charge! That's some feat, yet if Paisley had continued his remarkable managerial career for the same amount of time then who knows how many trophies he would have won? Law of averages, if we double his years to 18 then we double his titles to 38?  There could have been more!

      The very fact that Ferguson has won the European Cup twice (1999 and 2008) means he has took 9 years to win two when Paisley had won three! There's a record he isn't going to break!  Don't even start me on the knighthood argument!

      But I'll end on the fact that we currently have a manager with a better record than Alex Ferguson in his first few years, who has already won us our 5th European Cup, took us to only our second losing European Cup Final and our 7th FA Cup. He has set up a team which is the highest scoring in the league and has the three time winner or the Golden Gloves (in his 3rd season) between the sticks.
      « Last Edit: Mar 11, 2009 07:31:20 pm by ayrton77, Reason: Whos Ferguon? ;) »
      gareth g
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #1: Mar 11, 2009 08:23:21 pm
      a Excellent Post CRK , well put , but what's with this Knighthood. :f_whistle:    ;)
      « Last Edit: Mar 11, 2009 08:35:19 pm by gareth g »
      red79
      • Forum John Aldridge
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #2: Mar 11, 2009 08:31:13 pm
      Cracking stuff, Ferguson, has done well but circumstances are very different, i.e. he's been there for a quarter of a century. You've highlighted some very good points of where we were when Bill took charge and where he took us, Bob's european achievements and Rafa's great start, it's clear to me that we have more than one all time great, but it doesn't get recognised anywhere else which is a shame, Ferguson wins a European Cup for the first time and gets a knighthood, Bob does it 3 times and doesn't, it's an absolute disgrace!
      Eem
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #3: Mar 11, 2009 08:39:20 pm
      Great post. Shame if you show this to any Mancs, their inferior brains won't understand.

      I do however believe that you used the ! too much :P.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #4: Mar 11, 2009 09:25:58 pm
      All time great? No

      All time alcoholic, self obsessed b***ard? Yes ;)


      *Great post by the way CRK*
      StevieGfan
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #5: Mar 11, 2009 09:38:46 pm
      Nice wee article there, enjoyed reading that!
      paulboo
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #6: Mar 12, 2009 12:03:30 am
      Funny old game isnt it? wonder where hed be if he never won that F.A cup in 1991. They were about to sack him!!
      Dadorious
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #7: Mar 12, 2009 12:16:57 am
      Top post CRK mate well said!
      REDMAN
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #8: Mar 12, 2009 01:20:10 am
      NO-ALL TIME tw*t.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #9: Mar 12, 2009 01:52:37 am
      Ferguson all time great? Yes, plain and simple.

      Ferguson greatest of all time? Not in my opinion no.
      jindaldhruv
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #10: Mar 12, 2009 04:31:12 am
      bah...all time great. no way!
      biggest asshole of all time. yes!
      Shandaman
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #11: Mar 12, 2009 06:30:05 am
      Great post CRK, really enjoyed reading that
      red_kaiser
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #12: Mar 12, 2009 06:49:01 am
      Ferguson all time great? Yes, plain and simple.

      Ferguson greatest of all time? Not in my opinion no.

      The post says it all.
      Billy1
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #13: Mar 12, 2009 08:04:27 am
      Funny old game isnt it? wonder where hed be if he never won that F.A cup in 1991. They were about to sack him!!
      You are so correct,Ferguson was so close to getting the boot.One thing is certain United will not have the continuity that we had at Anfield.Shanks,Paisley,Fagan and Dalglish.I recall when Matt Busby retired they went through a few managers and failed hopelessly.
      mattmcg
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #14: Mar 12, 2009 09:10:07 am
      Ferguson all time great? Yes, plain and simple.

      Ferguson greatest of all time? Not in my opinion no.

      This just about sums up Ferguson to me.  You'd need to have your red-tinted glasses on not to admit that he is an all-time great.  Although he doesn't have the grace or humility to be the greatest of all time, unlike Shanks and Paisley.

      I hate Ferguson with a passion, but 10 League titles and 2 European Cups automatically make you an all-time great  :f_wah:
      MsGerrard
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #15: Mar 12, 2009 09:37:26 am
      Excellent post Joey + for you.

      Ferguson is a very good manager, you can't deny that, I just wish he wasn't so bleeding arrogant and pig headed and I hate the way he chews  :mad:

      But I'm sorry he'll NEVER top Bob Paisley, not in a million years.
      JD
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #16: Mar 12, 2009 09:40:43 am
      Without question Ferguson has a great record at United.

      But he has benefitted from stability, support from the board, the ability to buy any player he wants and avoiding the sack after a miserable opening 5 years even when many of the United fans were calling for his head.

      I doubt he will ever be held in as high regard as some of the managers of yesteryear however because of his other personal traits which have tainted the game of football.
      Brian78
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #17: Mar 12, 2009 12:59:57 pm
      Ye cant detract from what hes done he is a great manager. But hes there now 23 years. Bob done all his work in 9!! No comparison Bob is the greatest ever and a much nicer man too
      beerdog
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #18: Mar 12, 2009 03:21:18 pm
      of course he's an all time great. he's won 10 premiership titles and 2 european cups for fks sake. you can't argue with that record unless your mentally retarted. i admire the pr**k because he always sends the scum out with an attitude that they can beat anyone. he fears no opposition and that mentality is fed through to the whole of his team..
      frizzby5
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #19: Mar 12, 2009 03:39:25 pm
      Don't Lose any Sleep over the lack of a knighthood for Bob Paisley CRK !  the guy worked wonders for L.F.C and has the respect of every true red fan and non Mancs.
      It's been proven these days that you can buy honours so I wouldn't even have put that beyond Scumchester and Slur Alex.
      Just because you have a title doesn't mean you have respect !
      paulboo
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #20: Mar 12, 2009 05:35:00 pm
      You are so correct,Ferguson was so close to getting the boot.One thing is certain United will not have the continuity that we had at Anfield.Shanks,Paisley,Fagan and Dalglish.I recall when Matt Busby retired they went through a few managers and failed hopelessly.
      Im dying to see what becomes of the untouchable Utd when Ferguson goes, Another 27 years without the title will do nicely.
      redprint
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      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #21: Mar 12, 2009 08:04:42 pm
      Of course he's one of the time greats!  i can't stand United and don't like Ferguson, and simply having lots of money doesn't get success.  he has built over time several great sides and puts together a good footballing team. 

      also remember what he did at Aberdeen!!!  he managed to break the stranglehold of Rangers and Celtic and won the UEFA Cup.  you have to know something to achieve that.  to say it he's not a great is just bollocks and is just us Liverpool supporters desperately not wanting to acknowledge the reality of the past 20 years.

      if a manager had achieved exactly the same success at Anfield, we would hale him, quite rghtly as a god and living legend.

      In summary: one of the all time greats - Yes!
      Great Man: No!!!

      Bob Paisley was both of the above and he is still the greatest. 
      CRK
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      • JFT96 YNWA
      Re: Ferguson - All time great?
      Reply #22: Mar 12, 2009 09:17:39 pm
      Cheers for your comments everyone!

      Much as I hate him and United, I do think he is one of the greats. As JD said, he has benefited from the stability of a club and it reaps the benefits after a while. Something which our very own Rafa would benefit from too.

      I do still think the acheivements our previous managers have put in our history books are the bigger of the two clubs however!

      P.S I did use the exclamation mark too much! Something which has left my writing since back then!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Honest! ;)

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