Play Babel Upfront?

Thats a silly comment. You can't become good after a few games. You need to have a consistent run to prove yourself. Ronaldo wouldn't be the player he is now if he only came on as a sub for 10 minutes and started a game once in a blue moon.

A few games?! THAT is a silly comment. He has had enough games in the first couple seasons to show us something, and he hasn't. A few spectacular goals in between A LOT of crappy runs and sh*te plays. I do not like ladyboy but i think he would have made a lot more of the chances Babel had. And again, why the comparisons to Ronaldo? Its F***ing annoying. There is only a years difference between age, yet a gulf in talent. I very very highly doubt Babel will ever be anything like Ronaldo so stop with the comparisons, its just plain annoying.

At least the likes of lucas and N'gog give it their all.

How many chances does that lazy b***ard babel need?

maybe the same amount that kuyt received??

i don't why are so blind and just extreme pro rafas.. see i love our manager just like you, but i'm not blind.. you can clearly see the team is so poor this season, far cry from last season where we were best footballing team in england (especially in the 2nd half of the season)..

kuyt has been poor all season long, and he gets to start every match.. because his attitude is good.. insua is a young lad, so give him a break. and he has ben good in some matches, the problem is, he just doesn't have a stable partner ahead of him in the wing..

lucas.. well.. let's face it. he's very very limited. i'm not taking a dig, because i like him. he's a very good SQUAD player to have and it's not his fault that aquilani was injured and alonso left us. And he's just very unexciting.

Babel deserves a chance.. try something new when nothing happens. of course torres will be our main man up front and ngog has done well.. why not try babel in the right wing where he pretty much turned the game for us against the hammers??

the problem is the manager just doesn't like the players who have attitude problems (cisse, bellamy, babel).. sometimes you have to sacrifice your ego to make the team work..

why not we try to sign tim howard? hey he has a great attitude.. darren fletcher?? he's a damn good character and doesn't speak bad about the manager..

maybe the same amount that kuyt received??

I don't why are so blind and just extreme pro rafas.. see I love our manager just like you, but I'm not blind.. you can clearly see the team is so poor this season, far cry from last season where we were best footballing team in england (especially in the 2nd half of the season)..

kuyt has been poor all season long, and he gets to start every match.. because his attitude is good.. insua is a young lad, so give him a break. and he has ben good in some matches, the problem is, he just doesn't have a stable partner ahead of him in the wing..

lucas.. well.. let's face it. he's very very limited. I'm not taking a dig, because I like him. he's a very good SQUAD player to have and it's not his fault that aquilani was injured and alonso left us. And he's just very unexciting.

Babel deserves a chance.. try something new when nothing happens. of course torres will be our main man up front and ngog has done well.. why not try babel in the right wing where he pretty much turned the game for us against the hammers??

the problem is the manager just doesn't like the players who have attitude problems (cisse, bellamy, babel).. sometimes you have to sacrifice your ego to make the team work..

why not we try to sign tim howard? hey he has a great attitude.. darren fletcher?? he's a damn good character and doesn't speak bad about the manager..

More blah blah blah.

Again, just read my posts. I have said reasons as to why Babel shouldn't be just given a chance. If he gets one, and he takes it, then good on him. BUT my point, and i will make it AGAIN, is that he should not be just given one after showing a sh*te attitude. If he is, then he won't learn anything about working to be a good person as well as being a good player. Unlike you, who seems to think F**k it, they can be a c**t as long as they play good, i like to see players with good attitudes as much as skill. If a player plays at Liverpool FC, more often than not they have skill. What makes them great at Liverpool FC is good attitude to. If Babel wants to be a good player HERE, then show something in training. Benitez would play him if he is shining in training above others. The fact he is throwing out Pacheco ahead of him screams to me that Babel is not showing anything as to why we should favor him over anyone else. I understand your opinion is your opinion, but im merely just pointing to the flaws in your shallow arguement that basically seems to me to be someone who believes the hype about Babel rather than someone who has watched him play through his Liverpool career, or in the case of Rood, his whole career.

Those sarcastic comments at the end meant nothing either apart from being sh*te. We already have a goalkeeper with a BETTER attitude anyways, and Fletcher is a manc. 'Nuf said.

he was one of the hottest talents 3 yrs back.. now he's the most hated player here..

i firmly believe the manager should atleast share some responsibility for turning him to such a turd..

i know babel has been piss poor in some games.. how bout lucas then?

but rafa has always shown faith/confidence/support in lucas.. he even came out and supported him in the press.. has he done anything like this for babel or anyone else (maybe apart from kuyt)?

he was one of the hottest talents 3 yrs back.. now he's the most hated player here..

I firmly believe the manager should atleast share some responsibility for turning him to such a turd..

I know babel has been piss poor in some games.. how bout lucas then?

but rafa has always shown faith/confidence/support in lucas.. he even came out and supported him in the press.. has he done anything like this for babel or anyone else (maybe apart from kuyt)?

When the player is a c**t and shows no determination to the team, why should Rafa back him? Even when Lucas was playing sh*te, he was at least trying to be better. Babel has not progressed because he believes he is good enough already, and expects things to be done for him. Just because he was a hot prospect does not mean someone will be good. Prospect, potential, whatever it is called, still has to be realized. And clearly Babel is not doing enough to prove to Rafa he deserves the chance to try, and that is on Babel, not Rafa.
Rafa shows confidence in players that show him reason to. What reason has Ryan? And a few spectacular goals here and there is NOT a reason.

 Just a question,If Babel got run over by a steam roller would he play flat out.

Just a question,If Babel got run over by a steam roller would he play flat out.

No but snoogy doggy may get a run in the team, I've always wondered why Babel was hampering his progression  

No but snoogy doggy may get a run in the team, I've always wondered why Babel was hampering his progression   

Snoogy doggy??? Hilarious...  NOT!!... Infact.. What the F**k is that supposed to mean? *Sighs*

Everyones talking about how his attitude stinks and blah blah F***ing blah.. Would you rather him (After minimal starts) sit quietly on the bench and collect his wages without giving a toss about actually playing football..?
The boy needs games and is frustrated.. Its funny how fans generally have a dislike for the tabloids but when Ryan was supposed to have said all these things about his fellow players EVERYONE believed the papers..

TBH why not play him there? What have we to lose? If Fernando is injured then give him a few games. We've seen what it has done with N'gog.

And we paid that much for him, so lets try and get something out of him.

The boy needs games and is frustrated.. Its funny how fans generally have a dislike for the tabloids but when Ryan was supposed to have said all these things about his fellow players EVERYONE believed the papers..

Because he actually did say those things! I'm dutch, I've read the original dutch interview. And he approved that interview before it being published.

Snoogy doggy??? Hilarious...  NOT!!... Infact.. What the F**k is that supposed to mean? *Sighs*

That to me mate just highlights how very little you know about our club, so before you try and take the piss out of my post I suggest you have some insight into the wranglings of our club or the only one who ends up looking stupid is your good self my friend.

Let me educate you.

When Hicks and Gillett took over Liverpool FC they came with the promise of not heaping any debt on the club, having a spade in the ground within 60 days for the construction of the new stadium, investing money in Liverpool FC and making money available for transfers Quoting we could go out and sign "Snoogy Doggy" if we wanted to.

Snoogy doggy??? Hilarious...  NOT!!... Infact.. What the F**k is that supposed to mean? *Sighs*

Everyones talking about how his attitude stinks and blah blah F***ing blah.. Would you rather him (After minimal starts) sit quietly on the bench and collect his wages without giving a toss about actually playing football..?
The boy needs games and is frustrated.. Its funny how fans generally have a dislike for the tabloids but when Ryan was supposed to have said all these things about his fellow players EVERYONE believed the papers..

His attitude does leave a lot to be desired and his comments are well documented but the fact that his performances are not up to standard makes it unbelievable that he should attempt to blame anyone else for his own shortcomings.

maybe the same amount that kuyt received??

kuyt has been poor all season long, and he gets to start every match.. because his attitude is good..

Don't disagree about Kuyt being poor, but it's the 100% effort he puts into every game is probably one of the reasons why Kuyt gets picked.

If Babel showed the same effort and determination, maybe he would get a run of games, but his head goes down and he's still a lazy b***ard.

Everyones talking about how his attitude stinks and blah blah F***ing blah.. Would you rather him (After minimal starts) sit quietly on the bench and collect his wages without giving a toss about actually playing football..?

To be honest mate, if I feel the player does not have the right mindset/attitude and that comes at the expense of costing us points in games, then certainly yes I would.

If Babel could sort his head out show the right attitude and take hold of a chance when given it, making himself undroppable then no I wouldn't, however the latter is not the case so until he does all of the above, he can sit where the F**k he likes collecting his wages preferably on a plane to Ajax to agree terms on a contract.

To be honest mate, if I feel the player does not have the right mindset/attitude and that comes at the expense of costing us points in games, then certainly yes I would.

If Babel could sort his head out show the right attitude and take hold of a chance when given it, making himself undroppable then no I wouldn't, however the latter is not the case so until he does all of the above, he can sit where the f**k he likes collecting his wages preferably on a plane to Ajax to agree terms on a contract.

Imo his attitude isnt costing us points its the reward of players like Lucas,Insua and Kuyt for trying hard thats costing us at the moment. Cant see how trying talented players who can do more than try hard will cost us points when playing average grafters is costing us points every game this season so far. What have we got to lose weve won 3 in 14 already this season its not working lets try something else please.

We all love hard work but its just not enough in the modern game all the relegation fighting teams have incredible work ethic but dont win jack sh*t. It seems to me fans on this site have stated openly they would rather get worse results with good role models than play players with attitude who might be able to change our mediocracy.

Imo his attitude isnt costing us points its the reward of players like Lucas,Insua and Kuyt for trying hard thats costing us at the moment. Cant see how trying talented players who can do more than try hard will cost us points when playing average grafters is costing us points every game this season so far. What have we got to lose weve won 3 in 14 already this season its not working lets try something else please.

What I'm saying by his attitude mate is running to the press/sulking the moment things do not go his way, the moment something goes wrong for him on the pitch, his head goes down.

One thing that highlights to me under Rafa if you are given are a chance you have to take it, something I feel Pacheco and Dossena showed last night.

Now going back to attitude, I have seen Babel this season run at the opposition defender lose the ball, not display the right kind of attitude in tracking back and at least trying to make amends for his mistake leaving Insua cruelly exposed in a 2 vs 1 situation,  that could lead to being at an expense of points no ?

That's one of the major flaws in Babel's play. He's not capable of keeping the ball in possession, he looses it much too often. That's why he'll never be a succesful striker, he's not capable of keeping and holding the ball, and his first touch is horrible, it's always been like that. And he doesn't have the heart to gain back posession. The only way he can be effective is in counter situations when he can use his speed, he's too limited.

To be honest mate, if I feel the player does not have the right mindset/attitude and that comes at the expense of costing us points in games, then certainly yes I would.

If Babel could sort his head out show the right attitude and take hold of a chance when given it, making himself undroppable then no I wouldn't, however the latter is not the case so until he does all of the above, he can sit where the f**k he likes collecting his wages preferably on a plane to Ajax to agree terms on a contract.

But do you agree that not all players are able to conger up good form from sporadic starts?? Its obvious (If he deserves it or not) that he's a confidence player who finds it hard to generate consistency from inconsistency.. We have to look at things sequentially... His attitude has only been questioned recently (moaning) but the lack of faith shown to him from Raffa (opposed to Lucas) has obviously effected his game for a while..
Maybe I'm different, I don't expect all players to have an exceptional attitude, I don't buy into everything the players say because i understand its all about perception.. I'm not going to harp on about attitude all the time when mine isn't that great.. All I'm saying is that I'd be more worried if he wasn't bothered about not playing...

Oh and with regards to your prior post..

Although my passion for the club isn't based on the amount of quotes I've read from H&G/P&M i do apologise.. I just bit too early because i thought you were making references to Ryan's love of rap music.. It just pisses me off when fans somehow think his musical taste has anything to do with his ability to play football.. So sorry lad.. My bad..

But do you agree that not all players are able to conger up good form from sporadic starts?? Its obvious (If he deserves it or not) that he's a confidence player who finds it hard to generate consistency from inconsistency.. We have to look at things sequentially... His attitude has only been questioned recently (moaning) but the lack of faith shown to him from Raffa (opposed to Lucas) has obviously effected his game for a while..

Yes I do agree with that it is hard to find consistency when not getting consistent starts, but showing the right attitude will & desire, more than makes up for the lack of consistency when trying to find it as it shows the supporters/manager you are busting your balls to get there.

I agree and have said myself that Babel is a confidence player and needs an arm round him and needs to feel loved, how ever running to the press, slating your manager/team mates/club is hardly the way to ender yourself to the love of your supporters/team mates/manager.

Babel also has to be understanding that Rafa is not the kind of manager to put an arm around him and molly cuddle him. For me a lot of Babels problems are mental, I do not question his ability and I do agree the lad has something inside him that could potentially turn him into a world beater but on the flip side of that argument there is also something inside him that could see him banish himself into the football wilderness for ever.

Do I think Babel could succeed here ?, Honestly no I don't as I think a lot of Ryan's problems are in his head and he is too easily led by in the circles he surrounds himself in. The best solution as far as I'm concerned for both Liverpool FC and Ryan Babel is a parting of company. Ryan needs a change of scenery where he can reflect on where things went wrong that will either make him or break him,  but when a player has no faith in his manager and the manager has no faith in that said player there is only solution to the problem and thats not playing him up front in Nando's absence.

TBH why not play him there? What have we to lose? If Fernando is injured then give him a few games. We've seen what it has done with N'gog.

And we paid that much for him, so lets try and get something out of him.

It has been tried before, to shocking effect. I can't remember which game, but he was shocking. And, as per usual, he was not very lively as far as attitude goes either. N'Gog may not be quite as skilled as Babel, but he does have some quality and the hard work he puts in well makes up for it. I honestly do not want to see Babel in a Liverpool shirt until he fixes up the attitude.

Because he actually did say those things! I'm dutch, I've read the original dutch interview. And he approved that interview before it being published.

Thanks, Rood. It actually was you saying you had read the original interviews that convinced me, so good work for coming in and reiterating that

It has been tried before, to shocking effect. I can't remember which game, but he was shocking.

So we're judging the player based on one appearance that may have been 2 years ago?!?!?. This is what im saying are we sure we're giving all our youth a decent run to judge them fairly. Why does it take 1 game to judge Babel for life as a forward yet we play Lucas for 20 games straight without realising his limitations. If it was just us fans doing this and being naive thats fine but our bloody manager is doing the same!!

So we're judging the player based on one appearance that may have been 2 years ago?!?!?. This is what im saying are we sure we're giving all our youth a decent run to judge them fairly. Why does it take 1 game to judge Babel for life as a forward yet we play Lucas for 20 games straight without realising his limitations. If it was just us fans doing this and being naive thats fine but our bloody manager is doing the same!!

No, i was saying i remember one game in particular. And even if it was just one time, if he was shocking then, and then we have players like N'gog show themselves to be capable, why back track to Babel again? We have players who are showing more than Babel at a younger age, so honestly I think Babel's moment to shine as a youngster has gone. Now he really has to work hard and prove to Benitez in training that he has the right attitude and skill to do it, otherwise F**k him. He is 22 now, or 23, he is in the bracket where he should be showing his real class now. Honestly, Benitex isn't stupid. He would play Babel if he knew there was something in him, and if he was showing it on the training track. Obviously he isn't shining enough to make Benitez think otherwise, so why should we?

No, I was saying I remember one game in particular. And even if it was just one time, if he was shocking then, and then we have players like N'gog show themselves to be capable, why back track to Babel again? We have players who are showing more than Babel at a younger age, so honestly I think Babel's moment to shine as a youngster has gone. Now he really has to work hard and prove to Benitez in training that he has the right attitude and skill to do it, otherwise f**k him. He is 22 now, or 23, he is in the bracket where he should be showing his real class now. Honestly, Benitex isn't stupid. He would play Babel if he knew there was something in him, and if he was showing it on the training track. Obviously he isn't shining enough to make Benitez think otherwise, so why should we?

We should because on his day he can do things that 90% of our squad cant do in their dreams. Whether thats once a year or every saturday is up to the club and player to work on. Im certain not playing him wont improve us but with him in the side with confidence we have a chance of being better than at present.Id rather risk it to win then settle for guaranteed draws and losses. We're a pretty poor side at the moment and I wrote on this forum about 6 wks ago couldnt see that changing and it hasnt so far. We're guaranteed mediocracy with some of our starters but certain players i believe can be developed into more than grafters if we approach it right. The only club we're hurting is ourselves in the long run.

At the very least.. we're about 3 losses from desperation as I see it going into the new year mid table with other clubs strengthening in January. If we dont take risks on players in the squad like Babel/Doss/Ngog/Pacheco our situation wont improve rapidly enough to claim the 4th spot. And then i get really scared..