Blaming Rafa?: Here are some very valid points to use.

Sack the fat Spainish waiter now before it's too late to rescue our season

If we dont finish in the top 4 this season which looks unlikely and with no trophys then its time for benitez to go, defensive teams don't win the league, and thats what we are now a defensive team.

But we don't even defend well ............

i dont see these as knee jerk reaction it is saying it as it is you ask any football fan who dont support liverpool (no rose tinted glasses on) what the problem is at liverpool they mostly say the same rafa is to defensive

How can you blame Rafa playing too defensive when we were hit on the counter for both goals?

last season liverpool were awesome - fact. we all know that we were nip and tuck with that shower. this season is a completely different ball game. forget last season, its history! this season i  stated after the chelsea game we had no chance of winning the league. i got hounded out. make all the excuses you want, we are not good enough. this club needs to focus on the league title, its our bread and butter, everything else is a bonus. people are paying big money to watch league games, this is were i think rafa is (up to now) more concerned with europe. yes the money is there, but if we win the league then we will be there. the areas highlighted in first post nearly hit the nail on the head, my only point that i disagree with is persisting with kuyt. the bloke covers every blade of grass, and has the passion of a scouser.

RedLFCBlood, I admire your arguments and how you have put them together.

I do want the man in control of our team to take more responsibility for what happens every weekend.

Well thank you for the positive feedback.

As I have said in my arguments Rafa is not immune from criticism, but on the whole its a collective effort from the boardroom, Coaching Staff and playing staff and the responsibility of the blame has to be proportioned between them.

I'm sure as hellfire Rafa is not telling the players to go out there and look disinterested, show little fight/spirit or show little ability to string two passes together or show little ability to clear their lines when defending.

A lot of what is happening on the pitch is down to individual errors from players for instance today, Johnson should have put the ball out for a corner "Safety First",  Benayoun was caught dilly dallying on the ball and got robbed of possession that led to the second goal, Mascherano made a bad tackle that did not need to be made in the center of the pitch that led to him being sent off. Individual errors that starting line ups or pre game tactics will not account for.

So if Rafa has to take some share of the blame should the three players who by large contributed to it themselves not shoulder some of the responsibility too ?

The Link dont (sic) work.
The drugs dont work.


Thats that then.

The Link dont (sic) work.
The drugs dont work.


Thats that then.

Here's the link.

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/12/forget-red-card-rafa-benitez-is.html

Wouldn't personally bother looking at that biased shithole though.

Rafa has made mistakes, and his line-up today, in retrospect, was one of them. The line-up was far too defensive considering the opposition. But, given that, the team Rafa put out should have been good enough to win. However, with a couple of exceptions, the players are not match-fit/lacking in confidence/sluggish/not trying.

OK, Rafa has a responsibility to motivate the players, but so does the captain, and, strangely, so do the players themselves. If putting on the Liverpool shirt does not motivate, then there is a problem with individual attitudes. Sacking the manager will not alter this.

Rafa is a good manager. Sack him and Real will snap him up - and we will regret it.

Come on - we are Liverpool. We support our team through the wind and the rain (remember?).

I'm sure as hellfire Rafa is not telling the players to go out there and look disinterested, show little fight/spirit or show little ability to string two passes together or show little ability to clear their lines when defending.

Of course not but what does he say to inspire confidence and belief in themselves so that these mistakes become fewer?

A lot of what is happening on the pitch is down to individual errors from players for instance today, Johnson should have put the ball out for a corner "Safety First",  Benayoun was caught dilly dallying on the ball and got robbed of possession that led to the second goal, Mascherano made a bad tackle that did not need to be made in the center of the pitch that led to him being sent off. Individual errors that starting line ups or pre game tactics will not account for.

So if Rafa has to take some share of the blame should the three players who by large contributed to it themselves not shoulder some of the responsibility too ?

This is what I'd love to know. If what Pennant has said is true, did Rafa for example, tell Johnson at the start of the game to make sure not to concede corners wherever possible? Did he tell Masch to defend higher up the pitch? Was Benayoun told to keep the ball at his feet and run at players as he can do so well when his natural preference in that situation may have been to free up someone else. Now before you say anything, I'm aware that these are extreme examples but I do wonder at how much instructions the players are given for every situation. A great team can overcome individual errors and make up for them but we seem to get worse after each one.

totally agree, our players are not to blame. Look at Wenger and Ferguson and how they change games, if Manchester play this game with 10 men from the beginning they will not lose, the red card is no excuse

Look at Wenger and Ferguson and how they change games, if Manchester play this game with 10 men from the beginning they will not lose, the red card is no excuse.

Bit of a bold statement that. Got any evidence?

'Cause I remember them getting battered at Craven Cottage last season after getting two players sent off...

Of course not but what does he say to inspire confidence and belief in themselves so that these mistakes become fewer ?

Well that comes down to Rafa and his relationship with that said bunch of players I guess, he'll respond to each player collectively or maybe have a word in each one there ears individually one would presume.

Now people will question Rafa's ability to motivate, Attaturk 3-0 down at half time anyone ?, I don't believe his motivational skills were called into question then. I don't believe his question of motivation was questioned last season when we had our best Premier League campaign ever.

This is what I'd love to know. If what Pennant has said is true, did Rafa for example, tell Johnson at the start of the game to make sure not to concede corners wherever possible? Did he tell Masch to defend higher up the pitch? Was Benayoun told to keep the ball at his feet and run at players as he can do so well when his natural preference in that situation may have been to free up someone else. Now before you say anything, I'm aware that these are extreme examples but I do wonder at how much instructions the players are given for every situation. A great team can overcome individual errors and make up for them but we seem to get worse after each one.

Yes I think you are looking into that a little extreme, Mascherano's challenge was rash after going 1-0 down and we were chasing the game he dived in, I do not believe that had anything to do with instructions from Rafa and defending higher up the pitch. Johnson being told not to concede corners I do not believe Rafa would say that, Rafa's first priority is a clean sheet and building on that so if in doubt safety first put it out is more what I'd be inclined to believe from Rafa. Again Benayoun I doubt Rafa will be giving him any other instructions when coming on as a sub than to try and exploit space and create us chances.

End of the day I'm not saying Rafa would lay down to instructions to players, as Torres himself has quite clearly stated Rafa has made him a better player by following his instructions on how to work the channels etc, Now ever thought of Jermaine Pennant , who has not got the best attitude may have took exception to Rafa trying to make him a better player ?

totally agree, our players are not to blame.

If you think that, then you my friend have not been watching any of our games this season.  These are more or less the same players that did so well last year, yet this year the majority of them have been totally inept.

The players IMO are way more to blame than Rafa because no matter what team he puts out, more often than not they are good enough to beat the opposition in this league...and thats not been happening because Kuyt has the touch of an elephant, Johnson and Insua have forgotten how to defend, Gerrard would rather fall to the ground than stay on his feet, Babel would rather give the ball to the oppostion, Yossi likes to try run rings around every player in the opposition team, Dossena is thinking about tonight's dinner, Lucas likes to pass the ball every which way but forward etc etc...how can Rafa be to blame for those things?

Agree with the points in the article.

End of the day I'm not saying Rafa would lay down to instructions to players, as Torres himself has quite clearly stated Rafa has made him a better player by following his instructions on how to work the channels etc, Now ever thought of Jermaine Pennant , who has not got the best attitude may have took exception to Rafa trying to make him a better player ?

Very true but when I see the lack of creativity on the pitch it frustrates me. These players are capable of so much more and when I see them playing cautiously it drives me mad. There is an article somewhere about the robotic way that Rafa likes his players to perform and the writer of that article says it better than I ever could. If I track it down I'll post it.

 In the meantime, I have Christmas presents to wrap!

Very true but when I see the lack of creativity on the pitch it frustrates me. These players are capable of so much more and when I see them playing cautiously it drives me mad. There is an article somewhere about the robotic way that Rafa likes his players to perform and the writer of that article says it better than I ever could. If I track it down I'll post it.

 In the meantime, I have Christmas presents to wrap!

I actually started a thread in here myself the lack of creativity from our engine room, the constant sideways backwards passing  frustrates the life out of me so much I'm surprised I have a full of head of hair, how ever I said in pre-season if we were going to be relying on both Lucas & Mascherano as our creative outlet we were going to struggle, so to be honest I don't know why I'm surprised by our plight.

Cheers for the buddy request, if I can only work out how to accept it

Happy wrapping

Bit of a bold statement that. Got any evidence?

EPL:
Saturday 12/9/2009 16:30
Tottenham Hotspur   1 : 3 Manchester United

They scored after Paul Scholes was sent off after 59 minutes and kept a win, do you want me to search for more? although there's no way of comparing portsmouth to TOTTENHAM

English League Cup: 23/9/2009
Manchester  1:0 Wolverhampton
Rafael Da Silva was sent off after 29 minutes

He has had long enough. I do not rate RAFA. I hope and pray and will gladly F**k off if im proved wrong but in MY opinion he is not the man for this job. Last season I believe (and i stated this then) his negativity cost us the league. I am sick watching and trying to second guess his negative player purchases, subs and tactics, especially against lesser teams. Last year and this year I just cannot understand that last point.

Liverpool FC - what are you waiting for? Do it !! Sack Rafa and get Guus Hiddink in !!

F**k off Soledee and the author of that article you had no complaints last year about our "negative" tactics and formation enabking us to finish second with the most goals scored.

WOW! Did you read the title of the thread? it starts out with sarcasm. I am not anti-rafa; Never have been. BUT please, before you tell me to F$$K off, get your mouth out of Rafa's rectum and see that some of he writer's comments are quite valid.

You're not the only one that supports Rafa.

Read my comments in the post match; I blamed the players for the poor performance! Get a grip.

'at the end of the storm there's a golden sky'



Circumstances have led to this season's poor show.

Rafa takes the blame for some of it for sure...


Didn't see this arguament being raised so much end of last season? hmmm fickle fan methinks


walk on with hope in your heart and be carefull what you wish for.....

I wouldn't care the original article is so biased and anti Rafa anyone with half a brain using logic and teh circumstances building up to the game could give a far more honest analogy of the situation without being pro Rafa or Anti Rafa.

Just scrutinising the article and putting up facts to counter Kanwars opinion show's his opinion to be biased and full of anti Rafa propaganda, there for its not a well thought out insightful article, it's merely toilet roll as all its fit for is wiping your anus on.