Shake it up Rafa

Are we turning on Gerrard now?

Yesterday, Insua was subpar, Kuyt was dismal. This is not about Gerrard., This is more about proper team selection than Gerrard failing to bail us out.

Insua played for 90 minutes when he could have been taken off and Aurelio pushed back to make room for benny. Kuyt is a problem to the right wing as he has nothing to offer there. Babel does better on the right; We have Torres isolated from that right wing so much so he has to go to the right wing and try to pull crosses.

You want a shake-up? start with the manager shaking up some of his ideas of a starting 11. A starting 11 without Kuyt will be a good start.

Bu t Gerrard? leave that man alone.

Interesting that so far the 'Shake it up' thing has been confined to formation and tactics and who to leave out.


Does anybody think that the time has come for him to give a media bollocking to his team?

I would fookin love to hear him come out after a game and slam the performance and if need be slam individuals yes

^ Good post.

I also don't envy his position.  Probably wants to leave some of the 'names' out. But if he does and then we get beat then he's even worse off.

Maybe him delivering a 'media bollocking' was a bit strong.  But I certainly think he should be coming out after games and being a bit more blunt and telling the supporters that the performance was unacceptable and the players must improve.

Yesterday, Insua was subpar, Kuyt was dismal. This is not about Gerrard., This is more about proper team selection than Gerrard failing to bail us out.

It's not the fact he didn't bail us out. He just wasn't F***ing interested in the second half. He was just strolling around thinking he was all that and not contributed one bit. I know he isn't going to pop up with a winner every game but as club captain it is in his job description to set an example and to lead the team. Did he do that last night? Did he F**k.

I wouldn't drop him for Spurs because at the end of the day it takes one swing of his right foot to be the difference in the big games and next weekend is big. I'd certainly push him out wide right though, if he can't deliver in the centre then it's about time he puts in the graveyard shift.

And also, just because he is Steven Gerrard OBE (or whatever he is) doesn't mean I'm not going to critisise him. He should be the one leading us out of this rot but he's simply not doing it.

So Rafa, shake it up and have words with the skipper. Put him out right, Yossi on the left, Aquilani and Lucas in the middle and Torres and Ngog at the top. Let's go for it a bit because it sickens me to see us put out two defensive wingers most games.

I just wish Babel would start for Kuyt and have this breakout weve dreamed of 11million ago. Imagine the impact of him in top form weve never seen yet. The difference attacking wise would be immense. it gives me shivers thinking of us having a pacy dangerous winger to rock defences like Lennon for Spurs!! I can at least dream and hope that day will come..

Ps shaking it up.. where the F**k is Riera?? I get the feeling hes surplus to requirements cant we just sell him then and get Turan/Maxi/Silva??

Agree a shake up is needed but Rafa has to take a look at himself as well after all  its him that keeps selecting Insua and Kuyt.
Insua is awful at the moment and he keeps getting agame. We have 3 left backs at the club and the worst of them all is first choice.
Dont get me started on Kuyt, just because he works hard doesnt mean he should play.
That performance last night showed exactly where we are as a club at the moment, too many average players who dont give a toss.
Not sure what the answer is because we cant make 7 or 8 changes to the team. worrying times

Isn't Gerrard playing with injections before and after games at the mo?

Hasn't Gerrard scored two vital goals in our last three games?

Shake it up, drop the one player who can help drag us out the s.hit?

He is probably going through the motions now, with an eye on the WC but with that being said carrying the bulk of your team for the best part of 6 years must take its toll, no?

Can anyone honestly blame a man thats given everything to this club and to be let down but the dross around him. I hope personally he has a good WC, he isn't getting any younger and with our current state who can blame him for thinking about that (if he is thinking that).

Players don't become lazy overnight, take into consideration he may not be fully fit plus the fact the team has gone backwards and the fact that Benitez has never brought in someone, who, for when gerrard is off form (like now, even though he's scoring vital goals) can step up and grab the side by the scruff of the neck and drag them outta the s.hite. This Shows how far we really haven't come under Rafa, players like fans loose faith in their manager when they don't believe anymore and that reflects in their performances.

....with that being said carrying the bulk of your team for the best part of 6 years must take its toll, no?

Can anyone honestly blame a man thats given everything to this club and to be let down but the dross around him.

I agree with this part. Stevie's only human and can be forgiven, from time to time (like yesterday), for thinking "what's the F***ing point" - look at his options when he got the ball yesterday. Who could he actually trust to do anything with the ball? Aurelio? Kuyt? .... "Gimme a break" As quick as a ball get's to Kuyt it comes back and Stevie's back to square one and, be honest, Aurelio was so far behind play there was no point even looking for him.

Yeah Stevie's out of sorts but i believe it's more down to the mediocrity that is allowed to thrive around him than his skill as a footballer. If we want to see him play to his best then play proper footballers along side him. Players he can play the ball to and move in front of for a return ball.

We should understand his frustration and needs.

I agree with this part. Stevie's only human and can be forgiven, from time to time (like yesterday), for thinking "what's the f**king point" - look at his options when he got the ball yesterday. Who could he actually trust to do anything with the ball? Aurelio? Kuyt? .... "Gimme a break" As quick as a ball get's to Kuyt it comes back and Stevie's back to square one and, be honest, Aurelio was so far behind play there was no point even looking for him.

Yeah Stevie's out of sorts but I believe it's more down to the mediocrity that is allowed to thrive around him than his skill as a footballer. If we want to see him play to his best then play proper footballers along side him. Players he can play the ball to and move in front of for a return ball.

We should understand his frustration and needs.

Exactly

I agree entirely with what people have been saying about the wingers not attacking.

Look Real Madrid for example - they use two holding midfielders yet their wingers are extremely attacking ones. All the time. Kaka/Ronaldo/Granero you name it.

I think we're really missing Riera actually.

Not buying that. Which player doesn't want to bring glory to the club? Yes he's been there done it but I'm sure he'll want to be there again, there's no doubt about it.

You're obviously contradicting yourself. He's also done it at the CL so why are you suggesting he wants the CL again, if he takes no pride in winning the FA Cup and Europa League? FFS, he's a professional player and we are a football club going for everything on offer.

It's like you're telling me if we have won EPL, we can sit back and quit winning it.

Every player will take the chance to have another shot at glory and Gerrard knows if he thinks like that he's been incredibly selfish and unfair to the other players to have not won it, the likes of Torres etc. We are the most successful club and we want to live up to that, doesn't mean that he has the medal round his neck his job is done for that competition.

What is fact is that our priorities is like that:
1. EPL
2. Europe
3. FA Cup
4. League Cup

What is not true is that he doesn't want to win it any longer.

We are the most successful club in England and if we think this way then we'll just settle for one at every competiton, which is a very sad day if that happens.

Quite simply because the Champions League is the biggest competition in modern day football, every single player would love to play in it and win it. That's why so many players say "I've moved to such and such a club to play in the Champions League". But players of Gerrard's ability do not take pride in winning the FA Cup or Europa League anymore - which is what I quite blatantly said.

He certainly feels himself too important for the early rounds. A few years back when he scored against Luton he didn't even celebrate.

So you think just because he's a professional footballer, he's gonna try his hardest every single game? He isn't. He's sulking because he isn't gonna win the League or European Cup. Did you see the difference in his reaction to his goals to Wolves and Reading? He no longer takes pride in the early rounds of these "lesser" competitions. He's not alone in that mind you, a lot of our players feel their too good for a third round tie in the FA Cup. And as a football club we may be striving to win everything, that doesn't mean the players are.

And no there's no contradiction at all if you took the time to read it properly. I said he feels himself too good for those competitions, he doesn't for the Champions League because of it's prestige in modern day football. The same applies to the Premiership. The FA Cup is nowhere near as big as it was because of the money that the Champions League no provides. It's more important for clubs, and players, to be in the Champions League.

There's a lot of posts wanting more rotation but I feel we've rotated into outspace

Who can honestly say they turn up to a match & can predict with any confidence, who our back 4 will be, who our midfield will be & who will be supporting Torres (even without the injuries)?

IMO all of our players lack confidence, not just Stevie. I don't know whether that's confidence in themselves, in the tactics, in the manager or something else but they've not shown any since the start of the season

I don't know what Rafa or anyone else did in the lead up to man ure coming to town but I'd like them to do it again

We came out of the traps & attacked them in every sense of the word. We went for 50/50 balls we even went for balls we had no right to win

If we play like that & lose so be it I for one won't complain. If we play like that & win I'll be on such a bender I won't have time to say anything

The other thing I'd like (which is in our hands) is to hear the red wall of noise from whistle to whistle which has been missing from Anfield on to many occasions this season. When you walk through a storm don't just hold your head up high but sing with everything you've got

I know what you're saying mate.

I do think we're far too conservative most of the time.

We have the quality of players to be raping teams.

Football is risks. Risks we need to take more of. If it means losing more games, so be it, because at the same time I'm damn sure we'd win more.

Against Spurs, this looks better


                                    Reina

Degen         Carra                         Agger            Aurelio


Babel         Gerrard             Lucas              Benayoun


                                   Kuyt

                                    Torres

Against Spurs, this looks better


                                    Reina

Degen         Carra                         Agger            Aurelio


Babel         Gerrard             Lucas              Benayoun


                                   Kuyt

                                    Torres

Like it but wud prefer Yossi off Torres, Gerrard left and aquilani in the middle with Lucas. Even more attacking imo

With all the criticism of Kuyt, let us not forget that he made a major contribution to the goal v Reading.  It wasn't just Gerrard, and had Kuyt not made that run, the keeper would have saved it.

I would never ever criticise Stevie G as he has given everything for years and years and is everything that is great about our club,how many sub standard players has he played with over the last 10 years even making some of them look good!he would never ever not try,i think watching him now does Rafa really know his best position come to think of it does Rafa really know his best 11,everyone i know have said over the past few years we need width/wingers and we need a partner for Torres neither have been properly addressed and we have become predictable and boring,looking at the starting 11 on saturday in my opinion only Reina,Carragher,Gerrard and Torres are good enough to play for Liverpool football club all the others would struggle to get into Stoke City's side.

I hope everyone realises that this team contains eleven players. Of course Gerrard is not beyond reproach by any stretch of the imagination, but his 'laboured' approach is a culmination of many problems. The personal ones, I know nothing about, if indeed there are any, but the on field problems are there for all to see. As Steven retains legendary status among the fans, we are always expecting him to pull us out of the sh*t. He's been doing it for years, but guess what?, he's f**king human, just like the rest of us. And the fact that we are so heavily reliant on Steven and Fernando just lends weight to the 'Liverpool are a 2 man team' argument.

I think it just goes to show how inferior our squad has been over the last few years. How many players in our squad have the ability to win a game by themselves? Torres and Gerrard, and that's it. One of the main problems has been the lack of service to Torres and Gerrard from central midfield and the fact that Gerrard has to come back looking for the ball instead of being fed the ball. Anyway, back to the topic in hand.

Rafa has to do a couple of things to try and get this season back on track. The first is to stop being so f**king 'stubborn'!. His constant persistence with Insua, Kuyt and Lucas is destroying us. Insua is having too much being asked of him this season and it's starting to tell. If Aurelio is fit enough to start a game then why the f**k is he starting him on the left wing? It baffles the f**k out of me, it really does. Was Aurelio not the left back for us last season? The season when our defence was the cornerstone of our late challenge for the title? Insua needs to lay off the pasties and get in the gym.

Then there's Dirk Kuyt. Is he Rafa's secret f**king lovechild or something? Has had a shocking season so far. Looks a very troubled man, his confidence has evaporated into thin air. It's not like we don't have any other wingers here, would love to see Pacheco get a run of games and give Kuyt a chance to recuperate. I feel sorry for Dirk, when he signed for us I bet the last thought that crossed his mind was that Rafa would try and convert him into a right winger. I use the word try as Kuyt is a long way off being classed as a winger.

Then there's Lucas Leiva, 23 years old next week, the 'Marmite Man' and the only player on the forum with a 'Development Thread'. The only reason Lucas is playing consistently is due to Rafa's safety first policy. I have loved looking at the posts showing Lucas as being one of the most accurate passers in the Premiership this season, has given me a good laugh. If you were to take away the passes that Lucas made immediately back to the defence and the sideways 5 yarders to Masch, Kuyt and Yossi, then that would account for at least 65% of those passes. On occasion it has entered my mind that he has the DNA profile of a crab. This is where the stats fail to tell the truth.

Many posters have mentioned Rafa's 'over defensive' approach this season, and I have to agree that this system is zapping the players confidence, that's all the players, not just Lucas. The Insua-Aurelio, Johnson-Kuyt and Mascherano-Lucas combinations are living proof of this problem. This defensive attitude will destroy any chance we have of winning anything this season.This, and his blunt refusal to place his trust in the youngsters and the 'Academy'. The same Academy that he claims is so important to the club, the same Academy that he has only just recently re-vamped by the way. In a way this can be perceived as being 'hypocritical' on Rafa's part.

I watched a programme the other night about American Football and this particular programme focussed on the 1976 Oakland Raiders. What interested me most about the programme was something the head coach said about his players. He was reminiscing about that great team and when asked why the team were so great at the time he said this, "When I brought in these players I had to accept that these players were 'artists', and artists have to be allowed to 'express themselves', if I inhibited their ability to express themselves then I would effectively have a team of 'robots' ". A great speech I thought it was and so very very true.

If you want a right winger, buy a right winger. Don't buy a striker and convert him into a winger. If you believe the kids are the future of Liverpool Football Club, then let them have the chance to express themselves. The general consensus on the forum is that Lucas is a 'creative' midfielder, well I beg to differ. If this is true then why is Rafa moulding him as a defensive midfielder? Is he moulding Lucas as a direct replacement for Masch?, as he feels confident that Aquilani can fill the 'Alonso' role. If he trusts Insua at left back why does he play Aurelio ahead of him. If he trusts Johnson then why does he play an out of form Kuyt ahead of him? This in turn leads to a lack of crosses from the wingers as they are preoccupied with babysitting the full backs.

Rafa's mindset is more a case of ' we must not lose ', rather than ' we must win '.

This has to change, and very soon.

Rafa's mindset is more a case of ' we must not lose ', rather than ' we must win '.

I'd certainly agree with you there.

Brilliant post.

Rafa has always had that mindset apart from the latter end of last season when he went for broke even though it was to little to late.

Rafa has always had that mindset apart from the latter end of last season when he went for broke even though it was to little to late.

Yes he has, but when we had Aurelio and Arbeloa as full backs, the wingers were able to play as wingers, not winger/defenders. My point being that our full backs now are liabilities.

Yes he has, but when we had Aurelio and Arbeloa as full backs, the wingers were able to play as wingers, not winger/defenders. My point being that our full backs now are liabilities.

Do you not think though mate that the full backs are struggling because of the "defensive" wide men. I mean if you know that the manager is playing somebody to protect you, it must add pressure knowing you're not trusted on your todd rather than relieve it.

For me Insua's best game this year was only the other week against Villa when he had Yossi playing ahead of him. I don't feel Aurelio offers any great cover anyway because for me he's not that great a defender. He, like Insua, struggles against quicker wingers. I've never been convinced by Aurelio at left back and would prefer Insua to remain there.

On the right, well for all the money in the world it's gonna stay the same when the squad is fit. Johnson right back, Kuyt right wing. It's basically as simple that. I'm not overly convinced with either but that's the way it's gonna stay. No matter how badly we feel one or the other is doing, if both are fit then 99 times out 100 that's the pairing down the right.

My ideal option though would be Gerrard on the right for a few weeks. Even though his season has been a shambles by his standards and I wouldn't cry meself to sleep if he was dropped to the bench for a few games, if he's gonna play (which is almost a certainty) I'd like to see him on the right wing. He can still be as destructive as anybody out there and because he'd be reluctant to stay in one position it would drag defenders around a lot more than he's currently doing.

I hear what you say DLS but Aurelio would be my first choice left back everytime. Insua has been a liability this season. My opinion is that Aurelio is the better defender at the moment. I use the words 'at the moment' or as Lawro would say, "At the muurment", because i believe that Insua will become a better defender than Aurelio in time. And i stick by my assessment of Johnson too, as a defender he is seriously lacking, his only saving grace is his exceptional offensive prowess. When your full back is spending more time attacking the flanks than your winger then you know you've got problems. Maybe we should swap Aurelio and Kuyt with Insua and Johnson seeing as they are offering more of an attacking threat this season?