Where to draw the line?

When he's had some decent money to spend on his real targets and they let him down.

Thing is,LFC is turning into a club thats gonna have to get its success without spending millions. Thats the new reality of the club. Maybe Rafa would be the no1 manager in the world with 50m to spend every year but it wont happen at this club at least not for a few years. So maybe we need a manger whos better at working with scraps and using what he has a la Moyes,Pulis even Hughes before city etc

Somehow this extremely unfortunate injury news we've just been given will no doubt be blamed on him too.

Actually i think its the only thing that will stop him getting sacked if results continue this way the excuse of injuries.

Yes, the owners are bas**rds, but Benitez spent almost 40m in the summer. For unsuitable players.

Sad but true. He may have sold 42m in return but they were his own buys who either flopped or were unhappy with him. The 40m he spent was on a right back and an injury prone midfielder totalling almost the full amount when its obvious we have no width and no striking options.

I like Rafa but i feel the end is approaching u just cant lose 10 of the last 20 games and expect to have a job at a top 4 club.

I'd draw four of them in two crosses on Tom & George's respective noses right before I nutted them.

Thing is,LFC is turning into a club thats gonna have to get its success without spending millions. Thats the new reality of the club. Maybe Rafa would be the no1 manager in the world with 50m to spend every year but it wont happen at this club at least not for a few years. So maybe we need a manger whos better at working with scraps and using what he has a la Moyes,Pulis even Hughes before city etc

Kiss success goodbye then!

We've always bought top end players, look at how much at the time the likes of Dalglish, Barnes, Beardsley cost - all at the time were top end buys.

What happens now when the top players become available, we won't be buying them because we will get gazumped by the likes of Chelsea, City, Utd, Arsenal and then you could even throw in the likes of Villa and Spurs.

So when we have got a new manager buying scraps, the fans currently slagging Rafa off for buying scraps, will they then kick-off at the new manager?

When I'd draw the line is when the players were playing to their maximum ability, the ability that Rafa saw in them to sign them, and we still aren't getting the results.

You know - like the same bunch played last season.  The reds best league campaign in, quite a lot of people on here's, lifetime.

When we start spending even a similar amount to Aston Villa, Spurs and Man City then I might expect us to be on the same points as them.  But while we are -£200 Million, £-80 Million and -£65 Million behind them in 2 years of spending then I don't understand what everyone's moaning about.

No manager in the world has ever got more out of a existing bunch of players to win the league without substantial player investment.

Except Rafa. At Valencia. Twice.

Except Rafa. At Valencia. Twice.
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With a team he inherited from Hector Cuper.Rafa to be fair got the best out of them,but the majority of signings were Hector Cupers.

Rafa is probably having a crap time away from the pitch too! just imagine having all this stress to deal with,media hatred ,fans abuse,players not performing !Dumb and Dumber as your bosses ( who are tighter than a duck's a**ehole with money ) I still think he's the pick of the bunch because if we did get a new manager they would want a guaranteed transfer kitty .....exactly what Rafa has been asking for !

We should draw the line under Rafa's name and give him all the support that we can. I.R.I.T.

With a team he inherited from Hector Cuper.Rafa to be fair got the best out of them,but the majority of signings were Hector Cupers.

Rafa turned Hector Cuper's team in to Spanish champions.

Just like he turned Houllier's Liverpool in to European champions.

So my original post was correct. No manager in the world turned a team in to league champions without adding players. Except Rafa. Twice at Valencia.

Rafa turned Hector Cuper's team in to Spanish champions.

Just like he turned Houllier's Liverpool in to European champions.

So my original post was correct. No manager in the world turned a team in to league champions without adding players. Except Rafa. Twice at Valencia.

Agree but his powers seem to have an immediate impact and a short term effect. We're into his sixth year and currently hes having little effect on the same squad with same methods. Either new manager or new players. Otherwise just a steady decline going by the evidence of the last 6 months.

I'll draw the line when Rafa is competing with a transfer budget that reflects that of a League Winning side and still failing, until that point and whilst he's competing with a yearly average net budget of little over 12 million aka little over 6 million per transfer window, I'll maintain he's had us punching well above our weight.

Like I said in another post Spurs team cost £50M more than Liverpool's team.

Why should he be sacked if we finish below Spurs?

I'll draw the line when Rafa is competing with a transfer budget that reflects that of a League Winning side and still failing, until that point and whilst he's competing with a yearly average net budget of little over 12 million aka little over 6 million per transfer window, I'll maintain he's had us punching well above our weight.

He has had us punching above our weight but its obvious until we get new owners we need managers who can get the best out of a limited bunch in parts. Moyes can get 5th year on year with crumbs so we need people like this to be mor realistic with our clubs predicament. Evertons squad is worth prob 20% of ours and they can finish top 6 so hes being judged against that.

He has had us punching above our weight but its obvious until we get new owners we need managers who can get the best out of a limited bunch in parts. Moyes can get 5th year on year with crumbs so we need people like this to be mor realistic with our clubs predicament. Evertons squad is worth prob 20% of ours and they can finish top 6 so hes being judged against that.

The seasons is not over until May though, lord knows where we will finish I have not got my crystal ball.

oyes can get 5th year on year with crumbs so we need people like this to be mor realistic with our clubs predicament. Evertons squad is worth prob 20% of ours and they can finish top 6 so hes being judged against that.

Are Everton going to finish top 6 this season?

And Everton have actually outspent us in the last 2 years.

We dont draw the line - its not our responsability as fans to draw any line under our managers life at the club...

I get you 'boy.

We should all be careful what we wish for, we just might get it.

Some people are 1 unaware of that or 2 too thick to give it any consideration.

a bit strong mate.

You can't not take note of that fact but when you see who has been shipped out and those who have been brought in, you have to ask questions about Rafa's dealings. He hasn't helped himself has he.

Unless we qualify for the CL, funds for players and the ability to keep hold of players will be severely affected.

That is the reason for me that a line will need to be drawn if we lose to Tottenham. This game is huge.
If we do lose, we are going to be 3 wins short of the 4th spot and for us to mount that challenge, change is needed. Whether it is with a manager who is temporary or long term, we have to give this club the chance to qualify.

If we don't make that change and we fail, then we can "kiss goodbye to success" as you say. The consequences will be too much for this club and we will be buying scraps. But worse than that, buying scraps and still in substantial debt.
But make that change, then at least we have given ourselves that chance.

You can't not take note of that fact but when you see who has been shipped out and those who have been brought in, you have to ask questions about Rafa's dealings. He hasn't helped himself has he.

When you look at who he shipped out sacrificing our strength in depth just to give us the quality of player that can compete both Domestically and in Europe due to his 12 million per year net spend.

Had Rafa not shipped these players out, thus sacrificing our strength in depth and bringing in the likes of Mascherano and Torres then we'd have still had Bellamy and Sissoko in our starting XI. (Players I'm sure Rafa would have liked to have retained for strength in depth but our current sell to buy policy does not allow for)

Not strong at all mate its about looking at the facts and interpretating them and making a knowledgeable decision, not just saying Sack Rafa because Whelan, Collymore or SkySports says so.

When you look at who he shipped out sacrificing our strength in depth just to give us the quality of player that can compete both Domestically and in Europe due to his 12 million per year net spend.

Had Rafa not shipped these players out, thus sacrificing our strength in depth and bringing in the likes of Mascherano and Torres then we'd have still had Bellamy and Sissoko in our starting XI. (Players I'm sure Rafa would have liked to have retained for strength in depth but our current sell to buy policy does not allow for)

Not strong at all mate its about looking at the facts and interpretating them and making a knowledgeable decision, not just saying Sack Rafa because Whelan, Collymore or SkySports says so.

the "not strong" bit was the referral to people being thick! A little unnecessary. Your views aren't the only one's that count.

On the football front, I'd love to see Bellamy,  Crouch or Robbie'on the bench again' Keane up front for us right now wouldn't you?

a bit strong mate.

You can't not take note of that fact but when you see who has been shipped out and those who have been brought in, you have to ask questions about Rafa's dealings. He hasn't helped himself has he.

Thing is with half of these players, they won't settle for being a squad player, so consequently they dont give 100% when they get the chance to play, their egos take over and they go to wherever they think they will get regular 1st team football.  So the ones that have been shipped out are the ones who deserved to be shipped out.

the "not strong" bit was the referral to people being thick! A little unnecessary. Your views aren't the only one's that count.

On the football front, I'd love to see Bellamy,  Crouch or Robbie'on the bench again' Keane up front for us right now wouldn't you?

I don't say my views are the only ones that count mate, but I respect views that are different to what Andy Townsend, Andy Gray, Stan Collymore Ronnie Whealan etc lead people to believe and with a little research, thought and insight most of their views can be discounted easily as was Hansens all Rafa's buys between 5-8 million have been poor/failures.

On the football front if it meant seeing Fernando Torres still playing for Atletico Madrid or maybe at Old Trafford, then no I'm quite happy to see Bellamy at Man Shitty as he was sold to finance the Torres deal, Obviously I'd love to see Crouch here but he expressed a desire to leave and was not sold against his will, as for Robbie Keane I could be a total tw*t and say no I'd rather have Voronin as up until the start of the season Voro had a better goals per game Ratio than Keane. However that would be just silly of course I'd love Keane to be still be here but again he wanted to return to Tottenham he was not sold against his will.

Are Everton going to finish top 6 this season?

And Everton have actually outspent us in the last 2 years.

On current form, this is possible.

I can't remember when I first began drawing lines but the last one was drawn last Saturday. From a different view, he played for a draw and got one, that's a beginning!