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      Horse Racing

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      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #161: Oct 20, 2012 07:05:25 pm
      Good picture that Lyn, bit of a goodbye that for Tom I reckon.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #162: Oct 20, 2012 07:17:43 pm
      Good picture that Lyn, bit of a goodbye that for Tom I reckon.

      Looks like it Luke, captures the moment well.  Credit to the photographer for that one!
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #163: Oct 25, 2012 07:56:18 pm
      Best horse I've ever seen on the flat, could easily be the best there has ever been. Think he only just stayed that trip today in the ground but still immense.

      Can't imagine the price you'd have to pay in stud fees with that beast.


      I think he was always going to come back and win there. Cirrus Du Soleil was flat out, there was no arguing he was giving his all but Frankel done what he had to do, nothing more. There was more in the tank in my opinion.

      As for his stud fee, nothing has been confirmed yet but £100,000 to £120,000 is the figure being banded about at the moment. It will probably be under the £100,000 mark though. Performance on the track is no guarantee to producing top offspring.

      There's talk of Black Caviar, Zenyatta and Zarifina all going to Frankel to be covered. Personally I would wait 2 or 3 years and see how his progeny are coming along.

      Good picture that Lyn, bit of a goodbye that for Tom I reckon.

      There was serious talk about staying in training as a 5 year old. The sad part is I don't think the decision to retire him to stud was based on investment or even the fear of him finally being beaten. But more so it was based on Sir Henry Cecil's health in my opinion.

      I seen him at Tattersalls sales in Newmarket last week, he is a very sick man. :(
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #164: Nov 12, 2012 01:44:22 am
      Interesting point you make about Cecil being the deciding factor on Frankel not continuing. Would actually be surprised if this was the case but it's certainly something I hadn't considered, he does, as you say, look very sick these days.

      I've heard the stud fee is around 6 figures so what you suggest fits with that and if you're right about those 3 going to get covered that would be some fantastic breeding.

      I also know what you're saying about success on the track doesn't always transfer to stud success but when it does it usually creates an awful lot of superstars. Would personally be most interested in the Frankel - Zenyatta foal and if it went for sale would attract unnatural interest in the sales.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #165: Nov 12, 2012 10:24:15 pm
      Interesting point you make about Cecil being the deciding factor on Frankel not continuing. Would actually be surprised if this was the case but it's certainly something I hadn't considered, he does, as you say, look very sick these days.

      I've heard the stud fee is around 6 figures so what you suggest fits with that and if you're right about those 3 going to get covered that would be some fantastic breeding.

      I also know what you're saying about success on the track doesn't always transfer to stud success but when it does it usually creates an awful lot of superstars. Would personally be most interested in the Frankel - Zenyatta foal and if it went for sale would attract unnatural interest in the sales.

      I don't think it was the sole reason to retire him to stud but I do think it had a profound effect. Frankel left Cecil's yard for the last time this week and Sir Henry (one of the few people I will refer to by their title) said himself to The Racing Post;

      "He has given me so much strength this season when I have had health problems."

      What has he got to do that for him next year? It's just a sad thought that crossed my mind. :(

      Galileo is the perfect example of the champion racehorse that is even better as a sire. Unfortunately it doesn't always work though, another Coolmore stallion, Yeats, being a prime example. Frankel like every other young up and coming sire has a risk element, it may be even bigger for Frankel. That's why if I was the owner of any of those super mares I would be holding off for at least 3 years and see what his progeny are like. Lets be honest, money will have nothing to do with any of those potential pairings, it will all be about percentage of ownership.

      The Zenyatta/Frankel pairing is very interesting in theory. Looking at the Zenyatta/Bernardini foal from this year though I have doubts. I've seen plenty of Bernardini's but this one just isn't a great foal. It might grow into a stunning yearling and either way it will have no problem selling. But with the two of them so young in their breeding careers I think it's better to shelf the idea for a while and let them both breed some good strong bloodlines first.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #166: Nov 12, 2012 10:42:12 pm
      Yep you're probably right Kopite, still unfortunately I couldn't afford a leg of any of them so I'll certainly not have any say. Always nice to speculate where the next superstar will come from even though, like you say, the chances are we'll be disappointed.

      One thing is for sure, I'll be amazed if I see another horse as good as Frankel was, predominantly follow the jumps, much prefer it due to the fact that the horses remain in training for longer and seem to develop character. Also believe jumps racing is easier to predict but Frankel caught the attention of everyone and captured the imagination of millions, for a flat horse I believe that was an incredible achievement and something the racing industry needed.

      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #167: Nov 12, 2012 10:51:36 pm
      Frankel rescued flat racing.

      Stunning horse - such a beautiful animal and so timid until he runs then he becomes a beast. The best flat horse ever.

      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #168: Nov 12, 2012 10:52:48 pm
      Frankel rescued flat racing.

      Stunning horse - such a beautiful animal and so timid until he runs then he becomes a beast. The best flat horse ever.



      100% agree
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #169: Nov 12, 2012 10:56:34 pm
      Yep you're probably right Kopite, still unfortunately I couldn't afford a leg of any of them so I'll certainly not have any say. Always nice to speculate where the next superstar will come from even though, like you say, the chances are we'll be disappointed.

      One thing is for sure, I'll be amazed if I see another horse as good as Frankel was, predominantly follow the jumps, much prefer it due to the fact that the horses remain in training for longer and seem to develop character. Also believe jumps racing is easier to predict but Frankel caught the attention of everyone and captured the imagination of millions, for a flat horse I believe that was an incredible achievement and something the racing industry needed.



      ha same as that mate, I'm the one that shovel's their sh*t! :P

      Definitely, Frankel was a once in a lifetime horse. You're spot on, the public can never really get behind flat racing because the average horses career is so short, there's nothing to grab the imagination. Which like you say is what made Frankel so special. Really and truly the general public can only really get enthusiastic about going to a classic meet on the flat for the occasion more that the racing itself.

      National hunt racing is everyone's favourite. I think a huge part of that is that is eliminates the "elitist" tag that still haunts flat racing. The trainers, jockeys and owners are the same as you and me, they're the everyday man and woman. And as you say the horses have longevity and character, there's a story to all of them that people can get behind. Like Arkle all those years ago and you can see it happening all over again with Flemenstar.

      Frankel rescued flat racing.

      Stunning horse - such a beautiful animal and so timid until he runs then he becomes a beast. The best flat horse ever.



      To be honest George, flat racing is in good health compared to how it was when the recession hit. Frankel definitely gave it a boost by gaining huge interest from the non-racing public.
      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #170: Nov 12, 2012 11:00:47 pm
      Where do you work if you don't mind me asking ?

      Future sis in law has worked at Highclare and Sheik Mohammed's stud in Ireland
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #171: Nov 12, 2012 11:06:25 pm
      Where do you work if you don't mind me asking ?

      Future sis in law has worked at Highclare and Sheik Mohammed's stud in Ireland

      Just finished working for a place called Kildaragh here. Have an interview with Coolmore coming up, but I'll freelance at sales between now and then.

      Highclare is a very nice place I hear. I've chatted to a few people that work there at sales and they're all a really nice crowd.

      Sheikh Mohammed's place here is Kildangan. It's a massive stud. I know one of the managers there well enough.
      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #172: Nov 12, 2012 11:08:42 pm
      Just finished working for a place called Kildaragh here. Have an interview with Coolmore coming up, but I'll freelance at sales between now and then.

      Highclare is a very nice place I hear. I've chatted to a few people that work there at sales and they're all a really nice crowd.

      Sheikh Mohammed's place here is Kildangan. It's a massive stud. I know one of the managers there well enough.

      Yeah it's stunning at Kildagan - she left last year and works part time at Walter Swinburns stables and her and her sis have just started breeding their own racehorses over the last couple years.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #173: Nov 12, 2012 11:12:29 pm
      Yeah it's stunning at Kildagan - she left last year and works part time at Walter Swinburns stables and her and her sis have just started breeding their own racehorses over the last couple years.

      Thats the hard part about the big studs, finding the right time to move on.

      Although if she has her own breeding operation up and going she can't be doing too bad. The money is starting to come back into the industry strong, but there's still plenty of smart business to be done with brood mares, fillies and pin-hooking. Best of luck to her with it!
      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #174: Nov 12, 2012 11:15:24 pm
      Her and her bloke started a family so she came home

      I think so far the horses are breaking even - they are earning enough in the sales to keep themselves going. Think they have just upped the standard of horse they are getting the good stuff from - Bertolinni ? I think is the name ? The mare has got a good bloodline with a few group ones behind her so its looking promising.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #175: Nov 12, 2012 11:25:33 pm
      Doing well so if they're stepping it up. I've heard a bit about Bertolini, an american stallion standing in England I think? Haven't seen too many of his progeny though.

      A good mare is priceless. The mare actually contributes 55% to the foal so I never understood the fixation a lot of people have with a big name stallion. If she has a good mare with strong bloodlines and some progeny that are performing she has a money maker right there.
      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #176: Nov 12, 2012 11:36:12 pm
      That's all they need to really push on - a progeny doing well - so far the sales are just on bloodline.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #177: Nov 14, 2012 02:22:19 pm
      That's all they need to really push on - a progeny doing well - so far the sales are just on bloodline.

      It's amazing how many people at the sales will buy purely on a good page though.

      The media darling Frankie Dettori has himself in some hot water now;

      Frankie Dettori: Jockey in spotlight after positive test

      Frankie Dettori is horse racing's showman - the celebrity jockey who transcends the narrow confines of his sport.

      From his flying dismounts to easy-going banter, the Italian-born rider is perhaps racing's most well-known figure.

      News of a positive test for a banned substance at Longchamp racecourse in France is the latest twist in a life which has seen many highs and several lows.

      The 41-year-old has been champion jockey three times, rode a famous record-breaking 'Magnificent Seven' winners in one afternoon at Ascot in 1996 and clocked up 110 victories at the highest Group or Grade One level.

      At the height of his fame, he presented Top of the Pops and became a team captain on the BBC's Question of Sport programme.

      But there have been dark days too. His early career was blighted by a police caution for possession of cocaine and later he admitted to using a variety of drugs to keep his weight down.

      In 2000, he was lucky to escape with his life when he and fellow jockey Ray Cochrane were involved in a plane crash at Newmarket that killed pilot Patrick Mackay. Cochrane, now Dettori's racing agent, needed to pull his friend from the burning wreckage.
      Dettori, christened Lanfranco, is the son of former 13-time Italian champion jockey Gianfranco.

      The jockey, who is 5ft 4in tall and weighs about 8st 5lb, came to Britain in 1987 to ride for compatriot Luca Cumani, and was champion apprentice two years later.

      He became the first teenager since the legendary Lester Piggott to ride a century of winners in a British season.

      But the young Italian's early career suffered as he enjoyed a party lifestyle and his partnership with Cumani ended.

      Just as a winter move to Hong Kong appeared on the horizon in 1993, he was found by police with a wrap of cocaine in his pocket near London's Oxford Street.

      Dettori had spent the day drinking as he went to support Arsenal at Wembley in their League Cup final defeat of Sheffield Wednesday.

      "Drugs have never been my scene and never will be, but - like a lot of young guys - I experimented without thinking of the consequences," he said in his autobiography.

      He was given a caution and later said the incident was a turning point in his life. Then a self-confessed ladies' man, he vowed to get his career back on track.

      "The last thing on my mind each day was racing. All I thought about was partying and chasing the girls. That's why I ended up lost, on my own. I must have been crazy to let myself slip so far," he said.

      Dettori went on to meet his future wife Catherine and landed a plum job with Sheikh Mohammed's Godolphin racing team.

      It was a racing association that would last 18 years and brought success around the world.

      He was champion jockey twice and then cemented his place in sporting folklore by riding all seven winners on a high-quality card at Ascot in September 1996.

      The BBC interrupted its Final Score football results programme to show his seventh win, with the accumulator sealed at combined odds of more than 25,000-1 and making headlines around the world.
      Dettori was box office. The immaculately dressed rider went on to have his own range of Italian-style foods and a chain of restaurants in London.

      In the saddle, he remained a master of his profession, particularly in big races such as the Dubai World Cup - which he has won three times, including with his favourite horse Dubai Millennium.

      A supreme tactician and shrewd judge of pace, he was champion jockey again in 2004.
      Three years later, he finally achieved his dream of winning the Epsom Derby - at the 15th attempt - when Authorized triumphed.

      It features among a CV littered with big-race victories, including 14 British Classic triumphs and three Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe wins.

      "Look at his record, you don't become a brilliant jockey with only one or two qualities. He has everything," said recently crowned champion jockey Richard Hughes of his close friend.

      But in 2012 Dettori's partnership with Godolphin became strained as young riders Mickael Barzalona and Silvestre de Sousa were recruited and the top rides for the stable were no longer guaranteed.
      His positive test came on Arc trials day, 24 hours after Barzalona had won the St Leger, the season's final British Classic, on Encke for Godolphin.

      Father-of-five Dettori, who has been an ambassador for racing's British Champions Series, will become freelance next year and before the latest news emerged, Cochrane had indicated he might try for a fourth champion jockeys' title. Dettori appeared determined to prove he is not a spent force.

      If he is found to have breached rules by taking a banned substance, then he could face a ban of up to six months. While his career is clearly at a crossroads, it would be foolish to bet against him bouncing back.
      Dettori told BBC Sport in October 2012 that he hoped to keep riding at the top level for several more years.
      "My target is 50, then we'll see. There's plenty of good racing in me," he said.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/20323084

      According to his solicitor it wasn't a performance enhancing drug.

      The outcome of this will be very interesting in relation to how it effects him free-lancing next season.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #178: Nov 14, 2012 02:28:50 pm
      It's official now, Frankel's stud fee will be £125,000 (live foal terms).

      http://www.juddmonte.com/stallions/frankel/default.aspx
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #179: Nov 14, 2012 02:30:41 pm
      Read the article first, then the stud fees and did a double take.  I might need glasses, though Frankel and Frankie are similar.  ;)
      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #180: Nov 14, 2012 02:34:30 pm
      Read the article first, then the stud fees and did a double take.  I might need glasses, though Frankel and Frankie are similar.  ;)

      Haha my fault, came on to post about Frankie then just after I posted I heard about Frankel.
      reddebs
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #181: Nov 14, 2012 04:06:50 pm
      Seems like he's been dabbling in the Columbian marching powder again  :roll:
      George Lucas
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      • JFT96
      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #182: Nov 14, 2012 04:09:41 pm
      It's official now, Frankel's stud fee will be £125,000 (live foal terms).

      http://www.juddmonte.com/stallions/frankel/default.aspx

      A lot of money is going to be made - going to break most money records.

      The Kopite91
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      Re: Horse Racing.
      Reply #183: Nov 16, 2012 07:07:26 pm
      A lot of money is going to be made - going to break most money records.



      Galileo is reportedly going at €325,000 by private appointment. So basically you can have the money but if the mare isn't good enough you won't get the service. So Frankel has a bit to go to catch up with his daddy. :)

      First big race of the jumps season on tomorrow, the Paddy Power Gold Cup at Cheltenham. I'm going to Punchestown myself but going to the bookies early to back Hunt Ball. He's 6/1 for the big one tomorrow and as far as I can see that is a great bet. Grand Crus is the favourite but I can easily see Hunt Ball winning.

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