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      New Tactics for 2010/2011?

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      Tadders
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #115: Sep 25, 2010 07:05:12 pm
      I genuinely think this is our best formation :

                                               Reina

      Kelly             Carragher                      Agger                 Konchesky

      Johnson          Meireles                       Gerrard          Babel/Maxi/Jovanovic

                                               Cole

                                               Torres

      I shall start with the back four. Kelly looks much more sound defensively that Johnson. Carragher, well, 150% commitment, never say die and can read the game really well. Agger, well comfortable on the ball and has a wicked shot when he can strike from 35 yards. I usually love to play Aurelio but he has been missing this season after only one game.

      I think this midfield of Johnson, Meireles, Gerrard and either one of Babel, Maxi or Jovanovic is a non-negative one. Johnson looks like a proper winger than a RB. Let's give him a run there. He may excel like Gareth Bale. Meireles, well he reminds me of Alonso in terms of how he always makes himself available for passes. Also strikes on goal when he has space and seems to play some really nice air balls instead of the usually grounder sideways and backwards. Probably not on par with Alonso in the passing and vision range, though.

      That is compensated by Steven Gerrard. The world's most complete footballer can do anything, even the playmaking job which we lack ever since Alonso left. With him playing central, he'll be sitting around the edge of the box when it's played into it instead of making a run into the box when he plays support to Torres and we know how dangerous he is from the edge of the box.

      It should be Johnson at right back when Kuyt is available. I really don't know who to put on the left but it's definitely not Joe Cole. Maxi had a good 2nd half against Steaua but was very quiet last night. Babel can tend to do things but he's very inconsistent. Jovanovic is strong, fast but he doesn't know what to do with the ball after running with it at times.

      It's definitely no Lucas-Poulsen for me. I don't mind having one starting at worst but never play both at the same time but I'd prefer Lucas actually.

      Joe Cole in the hole, enough said. In all of his games where he has played there, he's done really well. Even in the Europa League matches, he didn't have players of Gerrard's and Torres' quality around him and yet he was very impressive. He certainly can't do much from the left. It was his pass from the centre to Torres that eventually got us the penalty last night. Also played a nice through ball to Johnson from the centre.

      Torres up top for me. World's best forward and I think he will benefit alot from Cole's silky skills and creativity from behind. Also add to that Gerrard's creativity from the centre, not only Torres will benefit but so does Cole and the wide players.

      Tactics

      We seem to be very low on confidence at the moment after what happened last season so we can't go out with a negative approach. The best team should always be played from the start and make changes around the hour mark. This way, you change things quickly and you give the substitutes more time to make an impact.

      I think it's pretty wise to start with an attacking line up whenever and whoever we play. Let's say, if we're leading by 2 goals at least around the 65-70th minute, we can probably bring on one holding midfielder to be slightly more defensive. It's much better to go out all attacking from the start and maybe take off some gas after a comfortable lead, than to set out negatively and then chase the game once we've gone behind.

      The fact that we lack the aeriel threat in both ends of the pitch and proper wingers, we should try to score more goals coming from the sides where a ball is played to the wings and the player brings it to the byline and squares it in low (not a cross) as seen when Gerrard set up for Kuyt against Stoke last season or when Babel scored that winning goal against Man United back in 2008/2009.

      Top team, tactics - give Woy a ring for fucks sake
      Adryan
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #116: Sep 27, 2010 06:56:52 pm
      Okay, gave some thought about it and our best formations are either the 4-5-1 or the 4-4-2.

      The 4-5-1

                                             Reina

      Johnson         Carragher/Skrtel        Agger          Konchesky

      Kuyt               Meireles               Gerrard       Jovanovic/Maxi/Babel

                                             Cole

                                            Torres

      I've simply explained this in the previous post in this thread but here are a few points :

      1. Gerrard is best in the hole but he can't do it with Meireles-Poulsen behind because there's no deep-lying playmaker so he should be in the centre.

      2. Meireles can't play in the hole or wide right because he's a freaking central midfielder.

      3. So this leaves Joe Cole as the best for in the hole in the 4-5-1 formation and he has shown in many occasions how dangerous he is in there.

      The 4-4-2

                                               Reina

      Johnson         Carragher/Skrtel        Agger          Konchesky

      Maxi/Babel         Meireles               Gerrard              Cole

                             Kuyt                    Torres

      No arguments about who should play in the hole cause there isn't one. Our best players at their best positions as well.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Both these formations, IMO, are very attack minded. We don't have any out of position.

      Tactics

      Similar to ones I've said before.

      1. Put the best and most attacking team.
      2. Get the goals, kill the game early.
      3. Bring on defensive cover to protect the scoreline.
      Misty
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #117: Sep 27, 2010 09:31:55 pm
      Its not effing Rocket Science, what so difficult for Roy to understand??

      The tactics at the moment seem to be- dont conceed a goal, sit back when there is nothing to sit on & dont lose, defenders hoof the ball up the field in the general direction of Torres & everyone pass backwards if in doubt.

      How about win the game by more than one, then if we do conceed its not the end of the world- and play the ball out not hoof!

      Its frustrating to see Roy not making any changes until we are a goal down...

      Someone email him our formations!!!! ;)
      crouchinho
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #118: Sep 27, 2010 10:00:43 pm
      He's 400 years old. Can he even work a computer? :f_tongueincheek:
      Adryan
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #119: Sep 30, 2010 07:53:35 pm
      Hi, it's Adryan in this thread again.

      Can someone please mail Roy this post for this weekend?

                                 Reina                                                                                            Reina

      Kelly       Carragher        Skrtel            Agger                                       Kelly       Carragher        Skrtel            Agger
                                                                                          or
      Johnson    Meireles        Gerrard          Cole                                         Johnson     Meireles       Gerrard            Kuyt

                      Kuyt            Torres                                                                                    Cole

                                                                                                                                    Torres

      His initial formations of a Poulsen in the centre and Meireles on the right is not working and will never work. What more if there's Lucas partnering Poulsen?

      That setting puts our defence under pressure even though they're defensive midfielders and they don't offer anything going forward, which our 'wingers' and forwards depend on for service.

      I'm pretty sure the teams I listed above can deliver.
      crouchinho
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #120: Sep 30, 2010 08:00:23 pm
      Whatever Woy says...

      do the F***ing opposite.
      corballyred
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #121: Sep 30, 2010 08:11:07 pm
      The tactics are a F***ing shambles, we are really painful to watch
      Adryan
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #122: Oct 02, 2010 09:32:11 am
      There's nothing in our performances and tactics that show quality or anything near it.
      el batez
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #123: Oct 02, 2010 09:54:51 am
      Just start playing with some balls and fire in the belly.
      Mr Bleeds
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #124: Oct 02, 2010 09:55:57 am
      I'm not sure whether we'd be better off playing two upfront or Torres alone bearing in mind it worked a treat under Rafa.

      Really I think all Roy had to do was to keep the same formation as Rafa used primarily because we have the players and numbers to suit this approach. Roy IMO only had to change the personel where Rafa wouldn't, like Cole and Merieles for e.g.

      I've seen many say Roy likes to make his teams compact and hard to break down as if this is something negative about his approach. Rafa (credit to him as well) was the king of this and organised the side very well as a defensive unit, we struggled in the final third and we lacked creativity under Rafa. He prefers 'grafters' who are industrious without being flambuyount IMO.

      So, all Roy had to do was adapt our style somewhat to take us further and not overhaul the whole approach.

      What he has taken away and is fundamentally detrimental to our play is the fact that our team are NOT pressing the opposition further upfield. This IMHO is his biggest mistake tactically so far especially when playing one upfront. If you sit to deep and invite pressure on you isolate your striker, if you press the ball further upfield terratorially your gaining ground and much closer in support to your one striker.

      Merieles: After watching him is suited to Rafa's style, pressing high the fella has an engine and constrantly pressed and hassled Utrects fullback way deep in his own half the other night, almost to their by-line.

      All in all Roy should have kept the same formation the same pressing game (which is fantastic in comparison to what we're seeing now) and adjusted it that bit more, instead his gone with his own phillosophy which at this stage looks like a whole new tangent that has the players lost in transition.
      jdarr9
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #125: Oct 02, 2010 11:07:31 am
      I genuinely think this is our best formation :

                                               Reina

      Kelly             Carragher                      Agger                 Konchesky

      Johnson          Meireles                       Gerrard          Babel/Maxi/Jovanovic

                                               Cole

                                               Torres

      I shall start with the back four. Kelly looks much more sound defensively that Johnson. Carragher, well, 150% commitment, never say die and can read the game really well. Agger, well comfortable on the ball and has a wicked shot when he can strike from 35 yards. I usually love to play Aurelio but he has been missing this season after only one game.

      I think this midfield of Johnson, Meireles, Gerrard and either one of Babel, Maxi or Jovanovic is a non-negative one. Johnson looks like a proper winger than a RB. Let's give him a run there. He may excel like Gareth Bale. Meireles, well he reminds me of Alonso in terms of how he always makes himself available for passes. Also strikes on goal when he has space and seems to play some really nice air balls instead of the usually grounder sideways and backwards. Probably not on par with Alonso in the passing and vision range, though.

      That is compensated by Steven Gerrard. The world's most complete footballer can do anything, even the playmaking job which we lack ever since Alonso left. With him playing central, he'll be sitting around the edge of the box when it's played into it instead of making a run into the box when he plays support to Torres and we know how dangerous he is from the edge of the box.

      It should be Johnson at right back when Kuyt is available. I really don't know who to put on the left but it's definitely not Joe Cole. Maxi had a good 2nd half against Steaua but was very quiet last night. Babel can tend to do things but he's very inconsistent. Jovanovic is strong, fast but he doesn't know what to do with the ball after running with it at times.

      It's definitely no Lucas-Poulsen for me. I don't mind having one starting at worst but never play both at the same time but I'd prefer Lucas actually.

      Joe Cole in the hole, enough said. In all of his games where he has played there, he's done really well. Even in the Europa League matches, he didn't have players of Gerrard's and Torres' quality around him and yet he was very impressive. He certainly can't do much from the left. It was his pass from the centre to Torres that eventually got us the penalty last night. Also played a nice through ball to Johnson from the centre.

      Torres up top for me. World's best forward and I think he will benefit alot from Cole's silky skills and creativity from behind. Also add to that Gerrard's creativity from the centre, not only Torres will benefit but so does Cole and the wide players.

      Tactics

      We seem to be very low on confidence at the moment after what happened last season so we can't go out with a negative approach. The best team should always be played from the start and make changes around the hour mark. This way, you change things quickly and you give the substitutes more time to make an impact.

      I think it's pretty wise to start with an attacking line up whenever and whoever we play. Let's say, if we're leading by 2 goals at least around the 65-70th minute, we can probably bring on one holding midfielder to be slightly more defensive. It's much better to go out all attacking from the start and maybe take off some gas after a comfortable lead, than to set out negatively and then chase the game once we've gone behind.

      The fact that we lack the aeriel threat in both ends of the pitch and proper wingers, we should try to score more goals coming from the sides where a ball is played to the wings and the player brings it to the byline and squares it in low (not a cross) as seen when Gerrard set up for Kuyt against Stoke last season or when Babel scored that winning goal against Man United back in 2008/2009.

      BANG. ON. MATE.
      daveyd
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #126: Oct 02, 2010 11:11:37 am
      Tactics.Anybody remember the cry of.......
      ATTACK,ATTACK........ATTACK,ATTACK,ATTACK.
      I STAN BULL
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
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      Re: LIVE: Liverpool vs Northampton
      Reply #127: Oct 02, 2010 10:04:47 pm
      How about woys best tactic. hoof and chase! gone are the days of sweet football. wel until woy learns we aint fulam
      vitez
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #128: Oct 02, 2010 10:18:25 pm
      No point in talking about formation if we can't even position ourselves correctly enough to do any good with it.

      edit: Incidentally, I think the team is having major difficulties with adapting to a three band formation from a four band one.
      « Last Edit: Oct 02, 2010 10:29:06 pm by vitez »
      RyanBabs
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #129: Oct 03, 2010 01:50:14 pm

      REINA

      KELLY
      JOHNSON
      CARRAGHER
      SOTIS
      AGGER
      SKRTEL
      KONCHESKY

      LUCAS
      POOSEN
      SPEARING






































      TORRES.


      sigh
      Roddenberry
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #130: Oct 04, 2010 07:39:39 am
      Play some players out of position & look lost for 80 minutes, turn up for the last 10 minutes in some games.  Even when things are looking awful sit on the bench looking clueless & make no subs.  Or am I being hard on the master tactician, Hodgson?
      vitez
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #131: Oct 21, 2010 03:59:42 pm
      With all the talk about Frank Rijkaard going on, I felt it might be appropriate to bump this thread.

      Some information about his philosophy and set-up.

      DISCLAIMER:

      This information is pretty much solely based on what he's done in the past.  Similar to Hodgson in the sense that any team you put in front of Rijkaard he will try and turn them into something similar to this.  If he was in charge on Wolves/Stoke/Blackburn, he'd try to get them to play like this (and ultimately fail) so don't be too alarmed he's not doing the best at Galatasaray (board sold A LOT of players and the ones he does have at his disposal aren't entirely made for this type of a system) or Sparta Rotterdam.  He has done well at Holland and Barcelona.  I think if he's backed in the transfer market, he can make this work.  I doubt his ability to make us amazing, but certainly a top 4 team again and while looking good.

      Preferred formation is a 4-3-3.  The 3 mids play quite narrow and are often encouraged to drift wide in order to find space while the the the front 3 actually play quite wide and are encouraged to cut inside.  You'll notice these happening in tandem a lot as illustrated by this diagram:



      Player 7 is dribbling the ball towards the wing, player 10 has realised this and is subsequently moving towards the goalmouth.  You will see this happen a lot, get used to it.  This plays into the strengths of a few of our players, namely Kuyt, Babel and Jovanovic.

      Teams are setup quite aggressively and attack-minded so while we'll see a lot of goals, we'll also let in more.  Highly disciplined teams will be a bother.  Expect the left forward and the right forward (players 10 and 11 in the diagram) to drop back into midfield and act as a first line of defence (think they'll press for the ball back and close down hard but once the ball reaches the midfield area, it's almost out of their jurisdiction so they will rarely backtrack but instead prefer to keep themselves open for the counter-attack).  

      5 man midfields have the potential to overrun us something fierce, so expect one of the wide forwards (probably Kuyt) to help in midfield, should the need arise but there's not a huge chance of us actually retracting both to form our own five man midfield.  This system is easy on the eyes and setup to attack at any given opportunity.  We will concede a lot but I cannot envisage us being any worse than we currently are.  This system is similar to Arsenal's in a sense, it will look good, we'll tw*t the little teams and occasionally let a small team snatch a draw/win because of indiscipline.  It is not a philosophy/formation/setup that will catapult us to the next level but it's certainly more than capable of playing at high levels of football, just not at the absolute top tiers (obviously if we get stunning personnel, it is possible).

      A high defensive line is on the menu and the 3 midfielders (or 2 at the very least) are almost given a free role to do as they please, it's very possible that one might tuck in but not play the role of an outright defensive midfielder.  Pace is paramount to this system (it involves A LOT of running onto through balls) and I think any players who aren't the quickest will probably be gone sans one or two.

      edit: There will be less possession than we were used to under Rafa, expect 50/50 splits even against the small teams, the tempo will more than likely be quite high which will result in a lot of the ball being given away while we're frantically trying to attack at all costs.  If anyone's got questions about his methods, I have watched a fair few of his games - I'll help as best as I can.
      « Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010 04:11:43 pm by vitez »
      Adryan
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #132: Oct 22, 2010 01:33:53 pm
      I notice Arsenal tend to score lots of goals from balls being squared from the byline. Similar goals to the one Babel scored against United (2008/2009) and Hull (2009/2010), Kuyt and Torres against Stoke (2009/2010) and Gerrard against Hull (2008/2009).

      I mean, with players from the wide bringing the ball to the byline and passing it low, it's almost a simple tap in for the receiving man.

      I notice we don't have this kind of play anymore.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #133: Oct 29, 2010 08:02:22 am
      I'm not sure whether we'd be better off playing two upfront or Torres alone bearing in mind it worked a treat under Rafa.

      Really I think all Roy had to do was to keep the same formation as Rafa used primarily because we have the players and numbers to suit this approach. Roy IMO only had to change the personel where Rafa wouldn't, like Cole and Merieles for e.g.

      I've seen many say Roy likes to make his teams compact and hard to break down as if this is something negative about his approach. Rafa (credit to him as well) was the king of this and organised the side very well as a defensive unit, we struggled in the final third and we lacked creativity under Rafa. He prefers 'grafters' who are industrious without being flambuyount IMO.

      So, all Roy had to do was adapt our style somewhat to take us further and not overhaul the whole approach.

      What he has taken away and is fundamentally detrimental to our play is the fact that our team are NOT pressing the opposition further upfield. This IMHO is his biggest mistake tactically so far especially when playing one upfront. If you sit to deep and invite pressure on you isolate your striker, if you press the ball further upfield terratorially your gaining ground and much closer in support to your one striker.

      Agreed.  ;D
      RedHon
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #134: Oct 29, 2010 08:10:40 am
      I notice Arsenal tend to score lots of goals from balls being squared from the byline. Similar goals to the one Babel scored against United (2008/2009) and Hull (2009/2010), Kuyt and Torres against Stoke (2009/2010) and Gerrard against Hull (2008/2009).

      I mean, with players from the wide bringing the ball to the byline and passing it low, it's almost a simple tap in for the receiving man.

      I notice we don't have this kind of play anymore.

      Agreed. It's funny that many fans sees what's lacking and have opinions and tactics that seems more superior that Roy. Just can't figure out why he's so blind. It's not even rocket science. :f_steam:
      RedHon
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #135: Oct 29, 2010 09:28:05 am
      I genuinely think this is our best formation :

                                               Reina

      Kelly             Carragher                      Agger                 Konchesky

      Johnson          Meireles                       Gerrard          Babel/Maxi/Jovanovic

                                               Cole

                                               Torres

      I shall start with the back four. Kelly looks much more sound defensively that Johnson. Carragher, well, 150% commitment, never say die and can read the game really well. Agger, well comfortable on the ball and has a wicked shot when he can strike from 35 yards. I usually love to play Aurelio but he has been missing this season after only one game.

      I think this midfield of Johnson, Meireles, Gerrard and either one of Babel, Maxi or Jovanovic is a non-negative one. Johnson looks like a proper winger than a RB. Let's give him a run there. He may excel like Gareth Bale. Meireles, well he reminds me of Alonso in terms of how he always makes himself available for passes. Also strikes on goal when he has space and seems to play some really nice air balls instead of the usually grounder sideways and backwards. Probably not on par with Alonso in the passing and vision range, though.

      That is compensated by Steven Gerrard. The world's most complete footballer can do anything, even the playmaking job which we lack ever since Alonso left. With him playing central, he'll be sitting around the edge of the box when it's played into it instead of making a run into the box when he plays support to Torres and we know how dangerous he is from the edge of the box.

      It should be Johnson at right back when Kuyt is available. I really don't know who to put on the left but it's definitely not Joe Cole. Maxi had a good 2nd half against Steaua but was very quiet last night. Babel can tend to do things but he's very inconsistent. Jovanovic is strong, fast but he doesn't know what to do with the ball after running with it at times.

      It's definitely no Lucas-Poulsen for me. I don't mind having one starting at worst but never play both at the same time but I'd prefer Lucas actually.

      Joe Cole in the hole, enough said. In all of his games where he has played there, he's done really well. Even in the Europa League matches, he didn't have players of Gerrard's and Torres' quality around him and yet he was very impressive. He certainly can't do much from the left. It was his pass from the centre to Torres that eventually got us the penalty last night. Also played a nice through ball to Johnson from the centre.

      Torres up top for me. World's best forward and I think he will benefit alot from Cole's silky skills and creativity from behind. Also add to that Gerrard's creativity from the centre, not only Torres will benefit but so does Cole and the wide players.

      Tactics

      We seem to be very low on confidence at the moment after what happened last season so we can't go out with a negative approach. The best team should always be played from the start and make changes around the hour mark. This way, you change things quickly and you give the substitutes more time to make an impact.

      I think it's pretty wise to start with an attacking line up whenever and whoever we play. Let's say, if we're leading by 2 goals at least around the 65-70th minute, we can probably bring on one holding midfielder to be slightly more defensive. It's much better to go out all attacking from the start and maybe take off some gas after a comfortable lead, than to set out negatively and then chase the game once we've gone behind.

      The fact that we lack the aeriel threat in both ends of the pitch and proper wingers, we should try to score more goals coming from the sides where a ball is played to the wings and the player brings it to the byline and squares it in low (not a cross) as seen when Gerrard set up for Kuyt against Stoke last season or when Babel scored that winning goal against Man United back in 2008/2009.

      Yes, thanks for the brilliant idea. I'll be in Anfield to ensure that this formation is implemented.

      Henry
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      • Forum Dean Saunders
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      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #136: Oct 29, 2010 10:02:57 am
      I wouldnt mind him playing 4-4-2 as torres needs support up front.
      Play the lad Ngog.

      Play Gerard in the middle so he can feed the ball up front. along with Mereiles

      Cole and Jovanovic/Kuyt on the wings and you have an attacking outlook already.
      Pwersonally, I think Maxi does not play with enough heart and any sort of conviction that deserves wearing a red shirt.
      I'd love to see more of Pachecho and Amoo's looked good with his blistering pace when i've seen him play although i think he's still a last 10 mins player

      Defensively I think Carra is too slow and dont know why Agger cant get a place anymore as he's got a good touch and brings the ball out of defence well as oppose to hoofing it out all the time.

      Konchesky's ok at the back but provides nothing going up front.

      Would love to see more of Kelly and Ecclestone as from what i've seen of them they are more than capable of playing in the Premiership.

      Essentially what i'm trying to say is that I'd like us to play attacking football, and blood some young talent as that's the only way they are going to get experience and build up their confidence.

      vitez
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,701 posts | 156 
      Re: New Tactics for 2010/2011?
      Reply #137: Nov 28, 2010 07:33:34 pm
      Just briefly touching on the 4-4-2 despite the fact that I still maintain our best line-up is (setup in a 4-2-3-1):

      Reina
      Johnson RCB* LCB* Aurelio
      Lucas Meireles
      RW# Gerrard LW#
      Torres

      * we've got a unique situation we're we've got 4 CBs all with their own strengths and weaknesses, the only name that really should be there most weeks (not every week, but most) is Agger, but he has fitness concerns.  Either way, we've got sufficient cover there between the lot of them.

      # again pretty decent coverage in these areas (Kuyt/Maxi/Babel/Jovanovic/Cole - aging and not a single very good player but certainly decent for now).  The only thing we're missing is really a versatile attacker/forward who is capable of playing a lone striker role up front when Torres is injured and good enough to force his way into the team on the wings if Torres is fit and firing.

      If we do continue to play the 4-4-2, does anyone else think that Gerrard should be deployed on the right and leave Maxi/Babel/Cole/Jovanovic to fight it out for the left wing position.

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