Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

I suppose the 'Klopp seems to think he's fine' is one you're tired of too, mainly because it's right?

It'd be like some bloke talking to a maths professor, writing 2+2=4 on a board and then saying "That's wrong"

Of course the professor would turn round and say "What the F**k do you mean, it's wrong? 2+2=4, that's a fact"

Then the bloke says "well, that's only your opinion. My opinion is that it's wrong, and that 2+2 doesn't equal 4"

Klopp of course, being the professor, because another thing people can't get their heads around, is that he operates on a level, way, way above anyone here.

I like to think we do tbh. Just like you, Swab and HamannsTheMan , we appreciated and understood what Lucas offered when he played for us, which tells me you guys understand how important the role is, but the difference now is, me and the likes of HTM etc don't rate Hendo the #6 as highly as you guys and are frustrated because we feel we have better , better players that can elevate  us to the next level.

To be honest, yourself and HTM aren't the names that come to mind when I think about lack of understanding.

I'm all for people saying 'I just prefer Gini' or something along those lines.

I don't even think Henderson should be a nailed on starter at all right now, but not because 'he's sh*t' or not playing well, but others are in better form. It's the 'he's terrible' argument that's just absolutely ludicrous to read, no basis for it at all and I don't see how you can watch him and say that.

His role is to recover the ball and hassle the opposition. He's the best we have at that, no doubt in my mind. Gini has a different role, more about cutting passing lanes and forcing other players into bad positions, he's the best we have at that, no doubt. Just depends on what your cup of tea is.

You guys only have one line really, it never changes.

Really? That's all you can think of? Not that paid professionals who study the game for a living know more than you?

Whenever Henderson is getting criticised.
Moreno and Mignolet must have been very good in 2017 then, they got a lot of games <-- sarcasm incase you don't know.

To be honest, yourself and HTM aren't the names that come to mind when I think about lack of understanding.

I'm all for people saying 'I just prefer Gini' or something along those lines.

I don't even think Henderson should be a nailed on starter at all right now, but not because 'he's sh*t' or not playing well, but others are in better form. It's the 'he's terrible' argument that's just absolutely ludicrous to read, no basis for it at all and I don't see how you can watch him and say that.

His role is to recover the ball and hassle the opposition. He's the best we have at that, no doubt in my mind. Gini has a different role, more about cutting passing lanes and forcing other players into bad positions, he's the best we have at that, no doubt. Just depends on what your cup of tea is.

It's interesting that when Gini was doing that further up the pitch last season, he was always getting slated, and people saying he was sh*te.
Now that he's (sometimes) doing it in a deeper position, he's become the best thing sliced bread.

Tell me, what were Henderson stats on 21st of November 2017? I've seen a few bad games but not even a Hender Defender can defend that.

Most likely a poor game? I assume you've picked out a specific date where we lost or threw away a win? Very clever.

You seem to think I don't think he ever has bad games? Not my thoughts at all, I just think it's unfair the criticism he gets and feel some balance is needed.

Now for a fun game why don't you go to your posts on 3rd March 2017, I've not picked out a specific date like you have with Jordan (further cementing that you're only out to make him look bad) but I bet they're sh*t anyway, because that's the difference between you and Henderson, you don't just have off days, you're consistently poor.

It's interesting that when Gini was doing that further up the pitch last season, he was always getting slated, and people saying he was sh*te.
Now that he's (sometimes) doing it in a deeper position, he's become the best thing sliced bread.

It's fine to pass sideways if you're Dutch

It's interesting that when Gini was doing that further up the pitch last season, he was always getting slated, and people saying he was sh*te.
Now that he's (sometimes) doing it in a deeper position, he's become the best thing sliced bread.

Gini occupies space off the ball, he is not just reactive. If you watch him off the ball you will see why he is such a good DM.

I like Hendo.  For me needs to do 2 things more

Time runs to get in support of front 3 and shoot more. Has a belting shot but rsrely lets one go

Gini occupies space off the ball,

So Henderson can defy the laws of physics by not occupying space.

Got it.

So Henderson can defy the laws of physics by not occupying space.

Got it.

I appreciate the humour, honestly.
Clearly you know why they are so different even though they occupy the same position.

So you are saying you know better than Klopp? Because for some reason Jürgen keeps picking him even though he actually has other options.

It’s almost like Jürgen feels like he knows Hendo’s game better than say.....the average supporter?

Another annoying line that comes up so often on here. Very boring.

There is a reason why we've finished fourth in consecutive seasons you know.

What if we finish 4th again this season. Are you going to say it again? And again? And again?

What about when we finished 7th  with Rodgers? Did you say to people that they think they know better than Brendan because they didn't rate joe Allen or benteke?

What about when we finished 8th with Kenny. I bet you used to say 'so do you think you know better than THE KING' when people were slating Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing, didn't you?

Klopp is an amazing manager who has done wonders here. The huge strides we have made under his short tenure have been quite remarkable but we aren't the finished article just yet. There are one or two pieces of the jig saw left to complete and in my opinion taking henderson out of the starting 11 is one of them.

I looked on RAWK and noticed that their Henderson thread is getting just as much attention as ours, but I did not see anybody saying "Klopp picks him so I am right and you are wrong". Just a random observation.

I suppose the 'Klopp seems to think he's fine' is one you're tired of too, mainly because it's right?

Very tired of it yes.

Roy Hodgson knows more about football than the forum members combined, does that mean we all have to like Paul Konchesky too then?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/unusual-reason-jordan-henderson-great-14888310

I looked on RAWK and noticed that their Henderson thread is getting just as much attention as ours, but I did not see anybody saying "Klopp picks him so I am right and you are wrong". Just a random observation.

RAWK's full of jobsworth dickheads though, so no comparison really!!

Very tired of it yes.

Roy Hodgson knows more about football than the forum members combined, does that mean we all have to like Paul Konchesky too then?

How many games did he get?

This stat from England’s 6-1 World Cup win over Panama proves what a machine Liverpool star Jordan Henderson is.
Henderson is currently keeping Tottenham Hotspur pair Dele Alli and Eric Dier from the side and has become a vital cog in manager Gareth Southgate’s machine.
The Reds’ captain can be underrated or ridiculed as a sideways passing merchant, but it’s clear that top level managers love what he brings to the table – and that says a lot.
Against the Central American outfit, who are playing in their first World Cup, Henderson had an absolute stormer and contributed in a way that shows what an absolute machine he is.

RAWK's full of jobsworth dickheads though, so no comparison really!!

Most of them are mate but it suggests there is something worth discussing, what is the best role for Henderson.
No ones saying bin him off as he is sh*te.

It’s the recurring themes of when we come up against a low block or a team that agressively presses in midfield our midfield is found wanting, Henderson included and it would be good to see more creativity from the engine room.

He doesn’t help himself with his little 5 yard passes to a CB when he has acres of space to turn and make a vertical pass.

As for the his role is only to break up play and recover the ball is complete nonsense.
Klopp has never played with a destroyer as a DM and besides Henderson is no Masch.

This stat from England’s 6-1 World Cup win over Panama proves what a machine Liverpool star Jordan Henderson is.
Henderson is currently keeping Tottenham Hotspur pair Dele Alli and Eric Dier from the side and has become a vital cog in manager Gareth Southgate’s machine.
The Reds’ captain can be underrated or ridiculed as a sideways passing merchant, but it’s clear that top level managers love what he brings to the table – and that says a lot.
Against the Central American outfit, who are playing in their first World Cup, Henderson had an absolute stormer and contributed in a way that shows what an absolute machine he is.

Panama 

I disagree with you that I behave in  the same way as them. I have no problem admitting that henderson has played well.  The problem is, it's quite rare that he does actually play well. Playing well in my eyes is giving a 8/10 type of performance. Henderson very rarely reaches that mark. When he has 'done ok' and given a 6/10, I'm not going to go out my way and praise him. He's the Liverpool captain and doing just ok with an average 6/10 performance isn't good enough. He has to give 8s every single week. The rest of the team are, but he's not.

None of our incumbent midfielders give 8/10s every week, not Milner, not Gini, Not Ox and not Henderson. They are all 7/10 type players and by and large that's what you get from them. Milner has raised his own bar to some extent over the past 7-8 months and absolutely deserves his place in the starting line-up but lets not suddenly pretend Ox and Gini have been world beaters because they really haven't been and when they've had poor games they have often gone under the radar whilst this thread is busy as anything with criticism for Henderson (for putting in a similar performance).

Look at this season alone. Milner, Wijnaldum and Keita have all given MOTM performances already. Has Henderson? Then refresh your memory. Look back at last season. Can you ever remember henderson being the best player on the pitch? Refresh your memory further. Can you ever remember jordan Henderson being the best player in any game he's EVER played for us? By all means tell me about them and point out these games. Is there a way to check how many times Henderson won the MOTM poll on this forum last season? I'll be surprised if it's one.

I don't think he wins them all that often, can't say I know the stats regards MOTM votes but I daresay he has landed a few along the way. You're right I think Gini did get the votes in here a bit earlier in the season but I couldn't tell you who it was against. 

But I do know he started in the side (along with Milner) that whipped Porto 5-0 (Gini also played in this game), beat City 3-0 (with Ox) and then Porto 5-2 (with Ox) in the Champions League so it's not all that hard to see why the manager retains faith in the lad.

https://www.quora.com/Whats-so-good-about-Jordan-Henderson-Are-there-really-no-players-who-can-replace-him-in-the-Liverpool-or-England-squads

But I do know he started in the side (along with Milner) that whipped Porto 5-0 (Gini also played in this game), beat City 3-0 (with Ox) and then Porto 5-2 (with Ox) in the Champions League so it's not all that hard to see why the manager retains faith in the lad.

He also played in the 4-2 loss to Roma, the loss to RM and the 3-3 draw to Sevilla. The 3-3 draw stats are below.

Jordan Henderson vs Sevilla

https://twitter.com/LFCData/status/933091695670857728

I am not saying bin Hendo, I would sit him out the Napoli and City games then start him against Huddersfield and Cardiff with Red Star a maybe.
Rotation is key.

He also played in the 4-2 loss to Roma, the loss to RM and the 3-3 draw to Sevilla. The 3-3 draw stats are below.

Jordan Henderson vs Sevilla

https://twitter.com/LFCData/status/933091695670857728

I am not saying bin Hendo, I would sit him out the Napoli and City games then start him against Huddersfield and Cardiff with Red Star a maybe.
Rotation is key.

Consistency is a massive issue with him and it always has been.

For every ok or good performance he's given you can equally name a bad one. That isn't the mark of a top player.