Full disclosure of all government documents relating to Hillsborough

25 October 2011 Last updated at 04:46 GMT

Hillsborough inquiry by Blair government criticised
Joshua Rozenberg By Joshua Rozenberg BBC Radio 4, Law in Action
 
The last government "failed very badly" in accepting a report that rubber-stamped the original Hillsborough inquiry, says Lord Falconer.

After the 1997 election, Labour set up a review of evidence that may have been withheld from the 1989 Taylor inquiry.

Reviewing judge then, Lord Justice Stuart-Smith,  found the new evidence added nothing to Lord Taylor's conclusions.

Former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer described the government's acceptance of his conclusion as "disastrous".

In an interview for the BBC Radio 4 programme Law in Action, Lord Falconer said the government of which he had been a member had "failed very badly in relation to this".

Ninety-six Liverpool fans were crushed to death in the disaster 22 years ago.

Sir Murray Stuart-Smith, as he became on retirement, was appointed to re-examine Lord Taylor's public inquiry together with the wider question of whether the inquest process had been satisfactory.

"He, I think unwisely, concluded that there were no problems in relation to the way that the thing had been handled," said Lord Falconer, who also served as Justice Secretary during the Blair government.

"We accepted that. And that was a disastrous and wrong-headed decision. It made the families in the Hillsborough disaster feel after one establishment cover-up, here was another."

It was suggested to Lord Falconer that the government had wanted Sir Murray to come to the conclusion that evidence was withheld from the Taylor inquiry - and that he had come to the wrong conclusion.

"I am absolutely sure that Sir Murray Stuart-Smith came completely to the wrong conclusion," Falconer replied, "because he concluded that all of the investigative processes… produced a satisfactory result.

"They obviously didn't because they didn't uncover all of the evidence, and they left the parties most affected by what happened with an utterly legitimate sense that the state had failed properly to investigate this matter."

Sir Murray has not commented on Lord Falconer's remarks, but the former Lord Chancellor acknowledged that the government of the time might have withheld from him the information he had needed.

"That may be right," Lord Falconer replied. "I don't know what information was provided to him.

"But the reason why I am clear that he is wrong is because the purpose of these processes - the public inquiry, the inquest - is to allay public fears that they are not getting to the truth.

"And the reason I am critical of Sir Murray Stuart-Smith is because, whatever material had been withheld - and material had been withheld - he should have realised, I believe, that the inquiries and inquests had not given the public confidence that a proper inquiry had been undertaken."

In a House of Commons debate last week, the Home Secretary Theresa May promised that no government papers would be withheld from an independent panel set up by Labour in 2009 to oversee disclosure.

Law in Action is on BBC Radio 4 on 25 October at 16:00 BST and Thursday 27 October at 20:00 BST. Listen again via the Radio 4 website or download the podcast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15433324

So Lord (then to become Sir) Stuart-Smith did no more than rest one elbow on his desk. .and with his other arm rubber stamp the '89 enquiry.
For which he got a knighthood.
Didn't want to rock the old boat now did he.
Just brush that under the carpet. Theres a good chap.




There was Lord Stevens who BEFORE the Diana enquiry amazingly stated that it would probably find the cause of death was down to no more than a drunk Henri Paul !
(In his case: He had got a knighthood, a load of Royal favours and a bag of sweeties before he was appointed to that enquiry.)

Mr Cameron continued: "It was this government that has agreed to release the Hillsborough documents. Yet, every time I hear the word Hillsborough, I see Andy Burnham on the TV.

Thats a F***ing disgraceful comment

Nothing more than I'd expect from this c**t and his gang of Thatcher love child cronies though

Bollocks to the lot of them, they're scared shitless of what these documents may contain

Thats a F***ing disgraceful comment

Nothing more than I'd expect from this c**t and his gang of Thatcher love child cronies though

Bollocks to the lot of them, they're scared shitless of what these documents may contain

The witch Thatcher laid the foundations of the 22 year nightmare and this F***ing nugget Lord F**k knows what, wants to quibble about what may or may not have affected whatever.
Cameron doesn't  have a F***ing clue what he is passing comment on and the depth of feeling involved - actually Cameron is devoid of depth of feeling on a personal level end of story.

So , the back tracking has started. Cameron is a disgrace and  I for one am ashamed he's our Prime Minister, to try and score cheap political points from this is shameless. Then to say what he did about Andy Burnham, who has been steadfast in his support of the Hillsborough families , just shows how out of touch he is with ordinary people.
I feel so sorry for the families , after last week's debate this must be like a kick in the stomach.
Vile man.

So , the back tracking has started. Cameron is a disgrace and  I for one am ashamed he's our Prime Minister, to try and score cheap political points from this is shameless. Then to say what he did about Andy Burnham, who has been steadfast in his support of the Hillsborough families , just shows how out of touch he is with ordinary people.
I feel so sorry for the families , after last week's debate this must be like a kick in the stomach.
Vile man.

The back tracking, innuendo, vile slurs and downright lies have been the main thrust of the cover up for 22 years. Despite all their fine words the venomous bas**rds still try to absolve themselves from any blame.

He's being honest in saying what we all know.Nobody will be going to jail for this so the Families will never truly have closure.The best they can hope for is private prosecutions once they have enough evidence. Before slagging Cameron off Labour had 13 years to bring this to a close and did sweet FA.
The Establishment just can't admit to themselves that they murder people.
You can't beat the establishment but at least we can have a damn good try.

You can't beat the establishment but at least we can have a damn good try.

Mate, we're Liverpool - we can come from 3 down in a Champions League final to win. The government is nothing to us!

Mate, we're Liverpool - we can come from 3 down in a Champions League final to win. The government is nothing to us!

And still here despite the best efforts of Thatcher to destroy us.

Also see Adam Boulton from sky was having a pop at Luciana Berger on twitter.

adamboultonSKY adamboulton:
Luciana Berger, Labour MP, who had never heard of Bill shankly asks about Hillsborough disaster families.

She's an MP for Liverpool and doesn't know who Shankly is, big F***ing deal, what the F**k has that got to do with anything?

That's just a snide tory c**t getting a cheap dig in. The fat F**k. I wish Alistair Campbell would of lamped the c**t now when he was being a smarmy tw*t just after the election.

David Cameron asked for Hillsborough comments apology

Prime Minister David Cameron has been urged to apologise for remarks made about relatives of those killed in the Hillsborough disaster.

Mr Cameron was quoted saying bereaved families pressing for more details about the 1989 tragedy were hoping to find something which did not exist.

Luciana Berger, Labour MP for Liverpool Wavertree, called for the apology during Prime Minister's Questions.

A Downing Street spokesman said Mr Cameron regretted any offence caused.

Ninety-six Liverpool football fans died as a result of the tragedy at the 1989 FA Cup Semi Final in Sheffield.

'Grossly offensive'
Ms Berger, speaking in the Commons, said to Cameron: "Yesterday it was reported you compared the families of those who died at Hillsborough to a blind man in dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there, and claimed you weren't getting enough credit for the release of government papers relating to the tragedy.

"Will you take this opportunity to apologise to the relatives and friends of the 96 victims for these grossly offensive comments?"

Mr Cameron responded: "It is this government that has done the right thing by opening up the Cabinet papers and trying to help those people find the closure they seek."

The Prime Minister had been quoted making the comments in an interview with the Liverpool Daily Post.

He told the newspaper he doubted if the Hillsborough families would find closure even when they saw the full documents.

A No 10 Downing Street spokesman said later: "The Prime Minister's comments were not in any way meant to cause offence - and he clearly regrets if they have.

"His intention was quite the opposite; he was expressing his sympathy for how hard it can be to find closure in coming to terms with grief."

'Flippant answer'
Labour's Alison McGovern, MP for Wirral South, also called on Mr Cameron to encourage South Yorkshire Police - the force responsible for crowd control at Hillsborough stadium - to release its documents.

She called for the independent panel reviewing the tragedy to have "unredacted access to all papers".

Mr Cameron said: "I'm not fully aware of the situation with regards to the police papers so I don't want to give a flippant answer across the despatch box.

"The government has done what it should in terms of the Cabinet papers, but I'm very happy to look at what you raise and come back to you."

Last week ministers agreed to release papers of detailed discussions by then prime minister Margaret Thatcher's Cabinet in the aftermath of the disaster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15464063

Reading this HE has not apologised.

The quote in bold, I think just shows that the spin from this shower is just as a high standard as all the previous governments.

Ms Berger, speaking in the Commons, said to Cameron:

"Yesterday it was reported you compared the families of those who died at Hillsborough to a blind man in dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there, and claimed you weren't getting enough credit for the release of government papers relating to the tragedy.

"Will you take this opportunity to apologise to the relatives and friends of the 96 victims for these grossly offensive comments?"

I posted only yesterday about the fact of the rubber stamping of the 1989 review was similar to Diana.
To repeat:

Lord Stevens was the idiot who let it slip, when he announced BEFORE the whitewash review and investigation into Diana's death ....he said:

"It will be found that it was no more than an accident ... caused by Henri Paul being drunk".

!

Something that Micheal Mansfield picked up on in his book "Memoirs Of A Radical Lawyer".

Lord Stevens had been knighted by the Queen (ie Chief Member of the Royal Firm) and had many other favours come his way.

So is Cameron saying the same?

It sounds like it.

"I want credit for all of this but really ......you aint going to find anything .......and Im saying that now."



When do you want your Knighthood ..Dave?
Now or later?

Fuming with David Cameron after his comments.

Cameron urged to apologise over 'blind man' comments to grieving Hillsborough families



David Cameron has been urged to apologise to families of the Hillsborough victims after saying their search for closure was like a 'blind man, in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there'.
Labour MP Lucianna Berger used a question at Prime Minister's Question earlier today to ask if Mr Cameron intended to apologise for the 'grossly offensive' remarks.

In the Commons Liverpool Wavertree MP Ms Berger said: 'Yesterday it was reported you compared the families of those who died at Hillsborough to a blind man in dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there, and claimed you weren't getting enough credit for the release of Government papers relating to the tragedy.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053917/Cameron-forced-apologise-blind-man-comments-grieving-Hillsborough-families.html#ixzz1bvcdWQUt


w**ker.

The liar Cameron has proved he is just paying lip service to the enquiry.
His latest comments show he is light years from grasping the realities of the horror and consistently  follows his governments set in stone views which have not changed since the witch Thatcher invented them.

The F***ing shithouse is going to apologise by letter.

PM David Cameron set to make apology over Hillsborough families comment

DAVID Cameron is set to make a belated apology over his comments on the Hillsborough families.

No 10 sources said that the PM’s remarks, suggesting they would never find closure whatever Government documents are released, were “taken out of context” and he “meant no offence.”

Mr Cameron did not apologise when pressed yesterday at Prime Minster’s Questions by Wavertree MP Luciana Berger.

She asked specifically about his view that the families were “like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn’t there.”

She said that his words were “deeply offensive” and many others on both sides of the Commons agreed.

Mr Cameron said: “It is this government that has done the right thing by opening up Cabinet papers to help them (the families) find the closure that they need.”

The PM’s refusal to back down caused uproar among some Mersey MPs at Westminster.

Walton MP Steve Rotheram, who was at the match that fateful afternoon, said: “It caused sheer disbelief all around.”

Wirral South’s Alison McGovern, who also raised the issue, said: “I cannot understand why he didn’t apologise when he had the chance.

“No-one can. He just doesn’t understand how truly offensive those remarks were.”

And Halton MP Derek Twigg, who was also present at the 1989 disaster, said: “These were inappropriate and just plain wrong comments which can only add to the anxiety and grief of the families.”

Yesterday Ms Berger wrote a formal letter of complaint to Downing Street.

It said: “Your comments are deeply offensive to the families who lost loved ones 22 years ago and who continue to fight to find out the truth.

“Today I offered you the chance to deny that you made all these remarks. You chose not to.

“I gave you the chance to apologise to the victims’ families and friends for the hurt your comments have caused. You did not.

“I ask you again to apologise.”

The ECHO understand that a qualified apology will come in the PM’s formal response to her letter.


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2011/10/27/pm-david-cameron-set-to-make-apology-over-hillsborough-families-comment-100252-29669016/

Empty words, if he had the slightest insight into the horror he could never make the comment he is apparently going to apologise for.
F**k him and the other tools he sits with, get the truth in the open and expose the whole conspiracy from the witch Thatcher who the conservatives worship as a god, right throught to the present pr**k.

You can see why the Families have refused to be drawn into arguements like this because its a diversion from the goal they have and they have not once been deflected from that objective. If they would have used the terms seen on this thread they would have been labled as typical scoucers and would have been slaughtered in the press. Not once have I seen them use one disparaging remark depsite the fact they must have been tempted to on so many occasions. This isnt about Thatcher or Blair its about Authority and the system and the Governments of the last 22 years have always backed the system first and foremost.If I where a betting man I would put money on not one single person being prosecuted,the best they can hope for is sufficient evidence to bring private prosecutions that way they will prosecute individuals rather than the State or system leaving the likes of Bettison fair game.Just to see them in Court would be a major victory in itself.

     ^     ^     ^
Agree with you entirely, it's taken too long and the devious bas**rds have had time to cover their arses well enough.
What disturbs me is while they all attempt to obscure and delay the official enquiry in doing so they will make any private prosecution a very lengthy and woefully expensive procedure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15486792
Margaret Thatcher claims £535,000 for ex-PM duties

Former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has claimed £535,000 of taxpayers' money over the last five years, government records have shown.

This sickens me to the core. The establishment is corrupt to the core.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15486792
Margaret Thatcher claims £535,000 for ex-PM duties

Former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has claimed £535,000 of taxpayers' money over the last five years, government records have shown.

This sickens me to the core. The establishment is corrupt to the core.

She and her ilk will suck the life out of the very thing they profess to serve and support as the liars always have.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15486792
Margaret Thatcher claims £535,000 for ex-PM duties

Former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has claimed £535,000 of taxpayers' money over the last five years, government records have shown.

This sickens me to the core. The establishment is corrupt to the core.

MAGGIE, MAGGIE, MAGGIE

DIE, DIE, DIE!!!

MAGGIE, MAGGIE, MAGGIE

DIE, DIE, DIE!!!

Not long now.

Excellent comment piece in today's Observer

Why mock these proud Scousers?

What is it with Tories slating Liverpool? Following the beheading of Liverpudlian hostage Kenneth Bigley in Iraq, there was all that business with Boris Johnson and the Spectator and the labelling of the city as "mawkish". Now David Cameron has apologised to the relatives of Hillsborough victims, for remarking that their continuing campaign was "like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat". Cameron now regrets that "even more bloody northern votes have been lost". Oops, sorry, got that wrong. Cameron actually regretted that "offence had been caused". Apologies, my mistake.

Perhaps there are people out there who think they can get away with Scouse-bashing. Certainly, there are times when the people of Liverpool seem to attract all the anti-north venom going. Periodically, they're portrayed as over-sentimental whingers, the hysterics and drama queens of the north – so emotionally incontinent that they can't see a cute kitten on the lid of a chocolate box without having a full-blown nervous breakdown. What stereotyping rot. Disgracefully, Liverpudlians get these charges slung at them, even when something absolutely devastating happens, such as in the cases of James Bulger, Bigley and Hillsborough.

As far as Hillsborough is concerned, it's highly probable that the relatives would love to put their exhausting 22-year campaign behind them, instead of having to keep pushing for the truth. Their big "faux pas" seems to be their resilience – their refusal to shuffle away to a dark corner and stop causing officialdom inconvenience. Good for them.

As for the supposed "over-sentimentality" of the city, in my opinion, it's always moving to see Liverpudlians come together to support their own in times of crisis. Who knows – a bit of this spirit rolled out nationwide might even result in the big society of which Cameron once seemed so fond.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/30/barbara-ellen-rape-trivialised?INTCMP=SRCH

That such an article has been written & published in a serious paper shows that the rest of the country has a problem with us. Do you ever see any other city subject to the same level of scrutiny & discussion?

F**k off England.

Excellent comment piece in today's Observer

Why mock these proud Scousers?

What is it with Tories slating Liverpool? Following the beheading of Liverpudlian hostage Kenneth Bigley in Iraq, there was all that business with Boris Johnson and the Spectator and the labelling of the city as "mawkish". Now David Cameron has apologised to the relatives of Hillsborough victims, for remarking that their continuing campaign was "like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat". Cameron now regrets that "even more bloody northern votes have been lost". Oops, sorry, got that wrong. Cameron actually regretted that "offence had been caused". Apologies, my mistake.

Perhaps there are people out there who think they can get away with Scouse-bashing. Certainly, there are times when the people of Liverpool seem to attract all the anti-north venom going. Periodically, they're portrayed as over-sentimental whingers, the hysterics and drama queens of the north – so emotionally incontinent that they can't see a cute kitten on the lid of a chocolate box without having a full-blown nervous breakdown. What stereotyping rot. Disgracefully, Liverpudlians get these charges slung at them, even when something absolutely devastating happens, such as in the cases of James Bulger, Bigley and Hillsborough.

As far as Hillsborough is concerned, it's highly probable that the relatives would love to put their exhausting 22-year campaign behind them, instead of having to keep pushing for the truth. Their big "faux pas" seems to be their resilience – their refusal to shuffle away to a dark corner and stop causing officialdom inconvenience. Good for them.

As for the supposed "over-sentimentality" of the city, in my opinion, it's always moving to see Liverpudlians come together to support their own in times of crisis. Who knows – a bit of this spirit rolled out nationwide might even result in the big society of which Cameron once seemed so fond.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/30/barbara-ellen-rape-trivialised?INTCMP=SRCH

That such an article has been written & published in a serious paper shows that the rest of the country has a problem with us. Do you ever see any other city subject to the same level of scrutiny & discussion?

F**k off England.

Good article.

You can see this "anti-Liverpool bias " attitude all the time.

And it stinks.

Outstanding comment from one of the more credible publications, ignored of course by morons nationally.