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      The 'Rooney' Rule

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      TKIDLLTK
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      The 'Rooney' Rule
      Sep 07, 2011 10:22:40 pm
      No, nothing to do with the Shrek faced oik...

      It is about forcing clubs to shortlist black managers for vacancies.

      Football clubs may be forced to shortlist black manager

      The Professional Footballers' Association (PFA) are investigating the possibility of forcing clubs to put black candidates on shortlists for managerial vacancies.

      Face in the crowd: Chris Hughton, the Birmingham City manager, is just one of two black managers in the Football League Photo: ACTION IMAGES
      By Telegraph staff and agencies4:51PM BST 07 Sep 2011
      Since Paul Ince left Notts County in April, only two of the 92 English league teams have black managers, Chris Powell at Charlton and Birmingham's Chris Hughton.
      Discussions with the men who brought about the implementation of the 'Rooney Rule' in the United States, credited with getting the NFL to a position where two black coaches faced each other in last season's Super Bowl, are at an early stage, with further talks are planned.
      Gordon Taylor, the PFA chief executive, feels it is an avenue that has to be explored.
      "In football terms, we are the most cosmopolitan country in the world," said Taylor. "There is no distinction between colour, creed, nationality or background.
      "However, the PFA spends a lot of money training players for the future and understandably, one of the most obvious areas of interest is coaching and management. For some reason the number of black people who actually get a chance in this area is very small."
      RELATED ARTICLES
      Black managers deserve level playing field 05 Sep 2011
      The same situation used to exist in the NFL until the Rooney Rule was drafted by civil rights lawyer Cyrus Mehri.
      Implemented in 2003, the Rooney Rule was forced to overcome some initial teething problems.
      However, once the NFL showed they were prepared to take tough action against clubs who did not follow the law - fining the Detroit Lions $200,000 for not interviewing an African-American for their vacant head coach's job in 2003 - teams fell into line.
      Taylor feels a similar situation in England would be a win-win outcome given the increasing clamour for success. "All we are asking for is an interview," he said.
      "But the more times people attend interviews, the greater the likelihood of them eventually getting a job.
      "This has to be a good thing because it broadens panel of potential managers and coaches clubs are selecting from and opens up the possibility of greater experience.
      "That should be what every club is looking for anyway."
      Invited by Taylor, Mehri met members of the PFA, League Managers' Association, the Football Association, Football League and Premier League at Wembley on Tuesday, ahead of England's victory over Wales.
      "We are committed to this issue and Cyrus' experiences can offer us an insight and some solutions that can begin to address a concern that will not go away on its own," said Taylor.
      "Twenty years ago, Cyrille Regis and Luther Blissett did not try to carve out a career in management because they did not feel they would get a proper chance.
      "In 2011, it is in no-one's interests for potential managers to be put off for similar reasons. We will not be taking this off our agenda."

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8747629/Football-clubs-may-be-forced-to-shortlist-black-managers.html

      I think this is entirely wrong, because skin colour does not matter.  People should be treated as individuals.  Rules like this, well-intentioned though they are, only serve to reinforce racial dividing lines.  There are no 'black' football managers, there are no 'white' football managers, there are only individual football managers.  Colour is irrelevant to talent, it is even less relevant to other people's talent.  Clubs are only losing out if they don't pick the best candidate for the job.

      If you work hard and are talented, you can succeed in football management even if you are not from Glasgow ;)
      Roddenberry
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #1: Sep 07, 2011 10:38:34 pm
      Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I fail to see the positive.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #2: Sep 07, 2011 10:44:32 pm
      Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I fail to see the positive.

      Agreed.
      KennyIsKing
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #3: Sep 07, 2011 10:50:33 pm
      Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I fail to see the positive.

      It's not a term I like, just as I don't like "reverse discrimination"

      The net result is the same though.

      Talent will shine through and doesn't need this bullshit - carlton palmer for england!
      Roddenberry
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #4: Sep 07, 2011 10:52:05 pm

      It's 1992-93 all over again.  :D
      kevinho
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #5: Sep 07, 2011 11:38:40 pm
      Doesn't enforce anyone actually getting the job, like Affirmative Action over here in the states, but rather ensures that a minority manager is at least interviewed. It's been a very positive thing in the NFL.

      Think about it: I'm not sure of the proportion of black players to white players in English football, but I know in American football it is ridiculous. The amount of white coaches, in comparison, was skewed in the opposite direction even moreso.

      I, for one, endorse the idea fully. This just ensures that the hiring process isn't skewed based on skin color. It doesn't force clubs to hire black coaches, just to consider them. It's been a big success here in the States, and I'd imagine it could be a success in England as well. I'm not sure how deep racism is in the country (I've only heard tales of racism and whatnot), but this could help ease it. Every little bit helps.
      SM
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #6: Sep 08, 2011 09:13:00 am
      What next - women managers...??

      Only kidding - what a load of bollocks. I hate this sh*t - you must have black, asian, chinese etc etc or your racist.....F**k right off politically correct knobs - if they are the right man / woman for the job it doesnt matter what they look like.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #7: Sep 08, 2011 09:41:07 am
      What next - women managers...??

      Hope Powell is a woman and black ;) Perfect candidate

      There are racial imbalances in all parts of society, not necessarily because of discrimination.  Why aren't there many British Asians in football?  Why do we play our games on Saturday when Orthodox Jews won't be able to play or watch?

      I, for one, endorse the idea fully. This just ensures that the hiring process isn't skewed based on skin color. It doesn't force clubs to hire black coaches, just to consider them. It's been a big success here in the States, and I'd imagine it could be a success in England as well. I'm not sure how deep racism is in the country (I've only heard tales of racism and whatnot), but this could help ease it. Every little bit helps.

      Speaking as a white guy, the UK is nowhere near as racially divided as the US, though there is still racism from a very ignorant minority of troglodytes.  I doubt they inhabit the board room at PL and football league clubs.

      Football embraced black players in a time when racism was prevalent in society.  Why? Because they had talent and some managers realised that they could use these players to bring success to their club.  Now, I don't think there can be any suggestion of racism relating to the signing of football players, I think most if not all PL clubs have several black players from home or abroad, but I had to think about it because I don't sit there with a bean-counter on MoTD racially profiling the different squads.

      I'd have welcomed Frank Rijkaard to Anfield to rid us of that white, English gent Mr Hodgson, I don't know a Red who wouldn't.  I would not have wanted John Barnes because, legend as a player, he hasn't shown the managerial ability.  It can only be about ability.  There is no British black manager who could possibly have been on the shortlist for the job at any top, PL club.

      When you view people as belonging to a racial group (even if your intention is to help 'them' - how patronising?) you are creating artificial barriers and a false perception.  It may sound trite, but the foolish concept of 'race' is only skin deep.  When most people viewed Paul Ince or John Barnes as a "black manager" I just saw them as former Reds.  I wanted Barnes to succeed at Tranmere and Celtic because I liked the clubs and he was a former Red, I didn't want him to succeed just because he was black.
      reddebs
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #8: Sep 08, 2011 10:29:41 am
      I guess what the authorities should do to redress the balance is encourage more black/ethnic youngsters to do their coaching badges.  This could be encouraged at Club level, within the Academy's, as this would give the kids who don't "make it" another career option.

      I know they did this at Barnsley FC.  All the Academy players went to College to study Sports Science and most of them had their coaching badges within certain age groups.

      Until there is the talent to recruit, the top jobs will continue to go to the top applicants, whether they be black, white or otherwise.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #9: Sep 08, 2011 11:00:08 am
      You only have to look at sport in South Africa where there are supposed quotas to see that however well meaning this rule is it can lead to problems. People should be picked on merit not the colour of their skin. I find it ridiculous that in this day and age people can afford to discriminate especially in terms of developing young talent.
      crouchinho
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #10: Sep 08, 2011 11:00:26 am
      Agreed debs.

      Whatever the skin colour, if your not qualified, you won't get the job.

      I think more time should be put in to encouraging people to get their badges, not just throw their name in the hat and hope for the best.
      Aramantides
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #11: Sep 08, 2011 11:14:00 am
      Why does Wayne Rooney get a rule named after him?  :-[
      Gow
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #12: Sep 08, 2011 11:18:32 am
      Discrimination is discrimination in my eyes.
      Reslivo
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #13: Sep 08, 2011 01:30:23 pm
      What next - women managers...??

      Only kidding - what a load of bollocks. I hate this sh*t - you must have black, asian, chinese etc etc or your racist.....F**k right off politically correct knobs - if they are the right man / woman for the job it doesnt matter what they look like.

      Exactly.

      Racism is the implication or statement by someone that another race is inferior.

      Racism is very, VERY rare, even though the media state otherwise.

      The PC-brigade are just having a field-day.
      corballyred
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #14: Sep 08, 2011 01:31:48 pm
      I have to be honest this would be absolutely F***ing ridiculous. If your good enough it shouldn't matter what race or colour your skin is
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #15: Sep 09, 2011 03:48:25 pm
      I have to be honest this would be absolutely f**king ridiculous. If your good enough it shouldn't matter what race or colour your skin is

      To be fair to them, that is exactly the point of the people behind it, they argue that they are just making sure black candidates are considered for positions that they are qualified for.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #16: Sep 09, 2011 04:30:31 pm
      I have to be honest this would be absolutely F***ing ridiculous. If your good enough it shouldn't matter what race or colour your skin is

      To be fair to them, that is exactly the point of the people behind it, they argue that they are just making sure black candidates are considered for positions that they are qualified for.

      When this was originally introduced in the States it wasn't even followed properly by the owners, at least two teams were found to be giving plenty of black coaches interviews, only it was discovered white coaches were getting face-to-face interviews, while the black candidates were at best being interviewed over the phone.
      Exactly.

      Racism is the implication or statement by someone that another race is inferior.

      Racism is very, VERY rare, even though the media state otherwise.

      The PC-brigade are just having a field-day.

      Wrong, racism isn't very rare, it still exists massively.
      Reslivo
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #17: Sep 09, 2011 04:48:43 pm
      Wrong, racism isn't very rare, it still exists massively.

      In day-to-day conversation, how often does a racist statement pop up?

      In the conversations I have every day - it never, ever does.

      That's what I mean.

      Individually, racism is rare. In groups, it's not so rare.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #18: Sep 09, 2011 04:57:03 pm
      Doesn't this just create racism though? Black manager, for example lets say Chris Powell, gets interviewed for the QPR job as soon as Warnock is sacked. Does he sit there and think to himself, it's because I've had a great start with Charlton so it's my ability that's got me this interview or does he think, they're only interviewing me simply because I'm black and they've got boxes to tick?

      Yes it's unfortunate that there aren't many top quality black managers around, but that's down to talent not skin colour. There isn't any Asian managers in the Premiership, do we have to start interviewing them as well now? Also, what's more racist - saying Paul Ince is the first black English manager in the Premier League or saying Paul Ince is another manager in the Premier League. He was singled out for being black, that is more racist than just accepting him as a manager.

      People, in all walks of life, should be judged on their ability and not their skin colour. I'm aware that isn't always the case. Racism will always exist in all walks of life. Sport does have a great deal of racism in it. But where does it stop? Does each team have to have a black captain at least once a season?

      It's a silly idea and will only encourage racism in my opinion.
      Eem
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #19: Sep 09, 2011 05:17:13 pm
      They can't be F***ing serious.

      Interview the right candidates regardless of colour.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #20: Sep 11, 2011 01:36:22 am
      Doesn't this just create racism though? Black manager, for example lets say Chris Powell, gets interviewed for the QPR job as soon as Warnock is sacked. Does he sit there and think to himself, it's because I've had a great start with Charlton so it's my ability that's got me this interview or does he think, they're only interviewing me simply because I'm black and they've got boxes to tick?

      Yes it's unfortunate that there aren't many top quality black managers around, but that's down to talent not skin colour. There isn't any Asian managers in the Premiership, do we have to start interviewing them as well now? Also, what's more racist - saying Paul Ince is the first black English manager in the Premier League or saying Paul Ince is another manager in the Premier League. He was singled out for being black, that is more racist than just accepting him as a manager.

      People, in all walks of life, should be judged on their ability and not their skin colour. I'm aware that isn't always the case. Racism will always exist in all walks of life. Sport does have a great deal of racism in it. But where does it stop? Does each team have to have a black captain at least once a season?

      It's a silly idea and will only encourage racism in my opinion.

      Good post.

      You don't eradicate racism by enforcing racial identity. I do not see myself as part of a white racial group, I don't identify myself as a "white" person or Johnson and N'Gog as "black" people, we are all just people, Reds.  Constant hypervigilance and awareness of phoney, socially constructed boundaries will never get rid of racism.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #21: Sep 11, 2011 05:52:45 am
      racism is very rare? this new world we live in is built on racism, putting down beliefs that aren't yours and belittling religions that have been around for over a thousand years.

      i don't know how someone can know the USA exists and say racism is rare.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The 'Rooney' Rule
      Reply #22: Sep 15, 2011 02:52:51 pm
      Open Goal campaign: Security guard refused to believe I was my team's manager - Leroy Rosenior

      Leroy Rosenior has outlined the barriers facing black managers - by revealing he was once refused entry to a club boardroom.

      It was only 11 years ago that Rosenior took the job at non-League Gloucester City and started his managerial career, despite seeing a lack of opportunities for black ex-players.

      He believes the prejudiced view of one security guard at an away game in those days is still present in football.

      “They wouldn’t let me in the boardroom,” said the 47-year-old. “The guard did not believe I was the manager, so I had to go to get my chairman.

      “I wanted to make a point that not all managers are 50 and wear a trenchcoat, but they thought I wasn’t the manager because I didn’t look like a manager.”

      Rosenior went on to boss Merthyr Tydfil, Torquay and Brentford, and is now a pundit on the Premier League’s TV channel.

      He was at the House of Commons on Wednesday to celebrate the 15th anniversary of the Show Racism The Red Card campaign - and getting more managers is part of the agenda.

      The former Fulham and West Ham striker is in favour of a US-style Rooney Rule coming in, as proposed by the Mirror's Open Goal campaign, and clubs being ordered to interview a non-white candidate for each managerial opening.

      “It’s not about giving jobs to black people or ethnic minorities, it’s about giving them an interview," said Rosenior. "It’s about people in power looking at people and thinking they could do a job at any level.

      “People are feeling they are not even getting a chance to be interviewed, so it’s a positive rule in that way.

      “It happened to me when I went for an interview at Torquay and didn’t get the job but it was thought I could do something later down the line.”

      Rosenior also feels many black managers have been lost to football because of a lack of opportunities.

      “How an individual is made up has nothing to do with colour,” he added.

      “We have lost a lot of good black managers. You would think it was a natural step for someone like John Barnes, but he did not get another chance after Celtic.

      “Luther Blissett never had the opportunity. Viv Anderson had one opportunity [at Barnsley in 1993-94] and was then lost to the game.

      “There have been many lost and there are other not-so well known people who would have been exceptional managers but were never given the opportunity.”

      “I wanted to make a point that not all managers are 50 and wear a trenchcoat, but they thought I wasn’t the manager because I didn’t look like a manager.”

      Rosenior went on to boss Merthyr Tydfil, Torquay and Brentford, and is now a pundit on the Premier League’s TV channel.

      He was at the House of Commons on Wednesday to celebrate the 15th anniversary of the Show Racism The Red Card campaign - and getting more managers is part of the agenda.

      The former Fulham and West Ham striker is in favour of a US-style Rooney Rule coming in, as proposed by the Mirror's Open Goal campaign, and clubs being ordered to interview a non-white candidate for each managerial opening.

      “It’s not about giving jobs to black people or ethnic minorities, it’s about giving them an interview," said Rosenior. "It’s about people in power looking at people and thinking they could do a job at any level.

      “People are feeling they are not even getting a chance to be interviewed, so it’s a positive rule in that way.

      “It happened to me when I went for an interview at Torquay and didn’t get the job but it was thought I could do something later down the line.”

      Rosenior also feels many black managers have been lost to football because of a lack of opportunities.

      “How an individual is made up has nothing to do with colour,” he added.

      “We have lost a lot of good black managers. You would think it was a natural step for someone like John Barnes, but he did not get another chance after Celtic.

      “Luther Blissett never had the opportunity. Viv Anderson had one opportunity [at Barnsley in 1993-94] and was then lost to the game.

      “There have been many lost and there are other not-so well known people who would have been exceptional managers but were never given the opportunity.”


      http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Open-Goal-campaign-Leroy-Rosenior-ex-Torquay-Brentford-boss-backs-Rooney-Rule-to-try-increase-number-of-black-managers-article799225.html

      We WILL have Rooney Rule in England says league chairman

      Football League chairman Greg Clarke is backing the Mirror's Open Goal campaign to implement a version of America's Rooney Rule.

      Clarke says he is discussing how to increase the woefully-low number of black managers in the game with the other football authorities.

      He is attracted by the principle of the Rooney Rule and says the challenge is to find a way of making it work for Football League clubs.

      “I’ve been working behind the scenes with the PFA, LMA, FA and Premier League, looking at the issue,” said Clarke. “And by that, I don’t mean kicking it into the long grass.

      “I’m a great believer that sport, business and government should be representative of the societies they serve and there is an unacceptable disparity between the number of black players and black managers.

      “The problem is people will say if they’re good enough, they will get there, but you have to create the opportunity.

      “For example, if you look back a couple of years ago, the number of female directors in FTSE 100 companies wasn’t good enough.

      “There were a lot of really, really good women who were not getting the opportunity to rise to the top.

      “Pressure was put on those companies to improve and now more women are being given that opportunity.

      “We’ve got a woman on our board. One diverse member out of eight isn’t enough, but at least it’s a start.

      “So I am attracted to the principle of the Rooney Rule and it is all about methodology - ie, how can we best implement it?”

      Clarke argues that to import the Rooney Rule from America’s NFL to the English game without careful consideration might cause more harm than good.

      He remembers from his time with telecommunications giant MTN in the 1990s in Africa how positive discrimination can backfire.

      “I used to sit on the board of MTN, which was the biggest company in Africa, in the days of black empowerment when people were appointed because they were black,” he said.

      “The problem was people were appointed before they were ready and bigots then used this as a reason not to appoint black people as directors.

      “It didn’t work putting them in a job before they’d had the necessary training and development and black people had been deprived of those opportunities.

      “There are fundamental differences between English football and American sport. For example, the NFL appoint their managers at the start of the season, whereas here, for good or ill, we hire and fire managers all the time.

      “The PFA recently brought over the lawyer who wrote the Rooney Rule for the NFL and we were able to spend half a day with him.

      “He had some practical advice and he was surprised when we told him that generally League One and League Two clubs have turnovers of less than $10million. They don’t have huge staff or HR departments who could implement the Rooney Rule.”

      Clarke says this is the challenge facing the authorities because the issue of the low number of black managers in the game must be addressed.

      “We have to do something,” he said. “It would be unacceptable in five, 10, or 15 years down the road still to say that only two per cent of managers are black.

      “The argument for change is overwhelming and we have to make sure we make that change happen in the best way so it doesn’t backfire.

      “We have to do it in a way which works for English football and whether they are black, white, pink or yellow, managers must have equality of opportunity.”


      http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Football-League-chairman-Greg-Clarke-backs-Mirror-Open-Goal-campaign-more-black-managers-article799223.html

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