Do we have to give this team a season to gel to bear the fruits of our labour.

Blood if we buy players of the calibre of silva aguero Dzeko baltolli de jong we we will compete as well the players aren't at that level who we bought

With what goals in mind though?

The title? CL place a Europa spot?

I think this needs to be made clear you mention City and acknowledge they did not build a title challenging side immediately and this took 3 seasons. They went from mid table mediocracy to the brink of a CL place in the first season since the foreign investment then gradually to CL and now to a title contending team.

However our history and background is not shrouded by mid table mediocracy we finished 6th and narrowly missed on a Europa spot last season so natural progression should dictate we challenge for a top 4 place with the investment that we have made and this was highlighted by Henry also.

In saying that having spent a 100m + to ensure that majority of the signing were made with the purpose of being premier league proven and prefered over those lacking this experience then the argument for giving players the time to gel becomes hardly palatial. Obviously bringing new players in to any team or squad is challenging and getting them to tick at once is difficult. However we specifically targeted players to accommodate for this transition as smoothly as possible and even though we are not even a third of the way in to the season it has become obvious that this task will be more difficult then anticipated.

Personally I think this thread is a bit premature however in good nature as it's purpose is to lift the doom and gloom and instill confidence after a disappointing result for all involved.

Agree with the majority of posts on this thread, some excellent and well thought out arguments for patience and getting behind the team and manager.

A shame this should need repeating, however, as it is the essence of "supporting" a team.

Will go into my opinions when I have more time, just wanted to show my appreciation!

The head says we should give these players time to gel but then I think of a scenario: what if Gerrard's appearances continue to be sporadic, Adam continues to just play average, Hendo continues to be played out of position on the right, Downing continues to be inconsistent and big Andy remains as he is now and it costs us a place in Europe. Not saying that will happen but if it did would you be happy to sit there in next Summer's Transfer window and say that the players we signed last summer are the ones to take us forward because they will gel now.

 Not so sure I would.

Personally I think whist Stevie is not playing then Hendo should be competing with Spearing and Adam for a spot in the middle and forget about him being on the right. That will be good competition and the one who wants the place more will gel naturally.

Bellamy should be given a chance ahead of Downing who needs to know that there is competition for his spec as he is not doing enough to earn it at this moment. Bellamy for me is one of the better finishers we have and could give us the lift in front of goal we need. If there is competition for places then I am sure we can forget about players having to gel which I can't help thinking is just an easy excuse.

For me the players in question need to take a look at Luis and Enrique who haven't needed time to gel and then take a look at themselves and ask whether there is more they can do in terms of effort and performance.

                                                                       

Blood if we buy players of the calibre of silva aguero Dzeko baltolli de jong we we will compete as well the players aren't at that level who we bought

I know mate but we had no European football to attract those sort of players, City did and they also have the ability to throw massive wages around.

If we qualify for Europe this season, then we might attract the calibre of player you want to see here, but were in a rebuilding process, the same process that Man City were going through when they bought Bellamy, Barry, the Kling On, Milner etc.

They qualified for Europe then went about recruiting some of the best footballers around the globe.

Man City didn't sign any one that really made you think City are going to win the league in the first season, they were frugile in the sense that they got players that got them into europe and it allowed them to spread their net both further and wider.

As soon as they had money they bought Jo, Milner, Barry, Lescott, Given, Santa Cruz, Kolo Toure, Boateng, Yaya Toure, Kolarov, Silva, Tevez and Dzeko.

I would say Silva, Dzeko and Yaya Toure paid off.

Jo, Given, Santa Cruz, Kolo, Boateng and Kolarov have flopped/left.

A lot of players have come and go for them and 3 seasons later they have finally clicked. Your demanding it be done after 10 months. Get a grip.

Blood if we buy players of the calibre of silva aguero Dzeko baltolli de jong we we will compete as well the players aren't at that level who we bought

Sorry Corbally but using Manchester City as an example of what we should be doing is ridiculous.

Of course we all want to see quality players at the club, I actually believe we have bought a few, but we have owners who run the club much differently to theirs and we will not spend the colossal amounts they have done to build that squad especially when you consider some of the wages they are paying to players as well.

It is just not going to happen.

Think myself we have been unlucky , it the team played as a team more and played for 90 minutes might show in the results. The best football always seem to come in the last five minutes if its a draw.We are caught now with expensive players who are under performing. No easy answers here, but this season ciould be shot never know what team is going to show up. But training sessions could concentrate  on putting the ball in the back of the net?

 what you mean get a grip crouch.  I didn't bring up man city.  we dont have the same financial power as them. We couldnt spend 30 million on robinho and continu to spend that amount unless you think the Carroll fee is going to be matched or beaten because i dont. You are not going to see Fsg spend 100 million every year till they get it right. Im giving a different argument and doing it on my own crouch and dont need to be told top get a grip unless you want everyone agreeing the same

With what goals in mind though?

The title? CL place a Europa spot?

All of the above mate, last year we failed to qualify for a european competition, so even if we made the Europa league places this year it would be seen as an improvement on last year.

Now I know you are saying we were not a midtable team from midtable obscurity but what we were was a team suffering from midtable/relagtion threatened investment over the last five transfer windows prior to FSG taking over, which has been magnified by the likes of City throwing money around for fun.

That has now left us playing catch up, no matter how much we want to say we were not a midtable club, our league position over the past two seasons have shown us to be just that and that has been down to the club being ran as a mid table club, but now we have new owners and a new management team with every one pulling together to achieve the same goal, I think we do need to be patient to see it all come to fruition.

All of the above mate, last year we failed to qualify for a european competition, so even if we made the Europa league places this year it would be seen as an improvement on last year.

Now I know you are saying we were not a midtable team from midtable obscurity but what we were was a team suffering from midtable/relagtion threatened investment over the last five transfer windows prior to FSG taking over, which has been magnified by the likes of City throwing money around for fun.

That has now left us playing catch up, no matter how much we want to say we were not a midtable club, our league position over the past two seasons have shown us to be just that and that has been down to the club being ran as a mid table club.

And I agree with you however that is now beyond us and the expectation has been lifted and financial resources were given to propell  us out of this slump. As i said players were deliberately chosen to make this transition as seemless as possible on the merit that most had PL experience. I think we will be in a better position to tell come January even.

The difference with city though they bought real top quality players we didn't.

Man City

Rolando Bianchi £8.8M
Martin Petrov £4.4M
Vedran Corluka £8M
Elano £8M
Valeri Bojinov £8M
Felipe Caicedo £5.3M
Craig Bellamy £14M
Wayne Bridge £12M
Robinho £32.5M
Shaun Wright Phillips £9M
Jo £18M
Emmanuel Adebayor £25M
Roque Santa Cruz £17.5M
Jerome Boateng £11M

£180M

And I agree with you however that is now beyond us and the expectation has been lifted and financial resources were given to propell  us out of this slump. As i said players were deliberately chosen to make this transition as seemless as possible on the merit that most had PL experience. I think we will be in a better position to tell come January even.

Yeh mate and I've discussed the whole premiership proven thing with Corbally in the thread already.

I don't think the the whole Premiership Proven thing counts for much, when you try and fit 6 new players into your starting XI, not every player is going to fit seamlessley into the side in the way that Enrique and Suarez has.

It will take time to form an understanding of each others game especially in the midfield area where we are trying to fit 3 new players in.

Just a question jd do you think Fsg will match sheik mansour investment. Say that 180 million is irrelevant because he matched it again to get right do you think Fsg will do that spend say another 35million on a striker if Carroll flops and sanction another hundred million in spending without say the 70 million coming in

I'm going to be honest here. I didn't think that we would have needed to give, what I saw as, better players and a better squad the time to improve on last season.

I believed then, as I believe now, that we were better equipped to challenge than in the previous two seasons. I believed then, as I believe now, we were better balanced. We bought good players and upgraded the squad, of that I have no doubt. Good players should take little no time to 'gel' and there's the rub.

If we had been a bit more lucky (or clinical) with the 14 or 15 chances, which hit the woodwork, the talk of 'gel' wouldn't be heard. Rather than taking time to 'gel' (this season's buzz word) I believe it's more a case of struggling to find a set up and role that suits them best when the going gets tough and the goals aren't forthcoming.

Think about the players, who it may be argued aren't 'gelling': Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing. What have they in common? When we are on top the team are creating chances and they 'gel'. It's when we start to wane that these players seem to go missing. But why are these four less effective?

In my opinion Adam ends up dropping deep and having to defend (hardly his forte). Supply to both Downing and Henderson (who's wasted out right IMO) becomes restricted and subsequently Carroll sees less of the ball.

I know I'm in a very small minority but to my mind it's less a question of the 'gel'; more a question of adapting to what the game throws at us should we fail to convert or chances.

I may be wrong but that's how I'm reading the situation. 

Just a question jd do you think Fsg will match sheik mansour investment.

I don't think FSG will and I'm not sure many of us expect them to match what Man City are doing to be honest.

I'm going to be honest here. I didn't think that we would have needed to give, what I saw as, better players and a better squad the time to improve on last season.

I believed then, as I believe now, that we were better equipped to challenge than in the previous two seasons. I believed then, as I believe now, we were better balanced. We bought good players and upgraded the squad, of that I have no doubt. Good players should take little no time to 'gel' and there's the rub.

If we had been a bit more lucky (or clinical) with the 14 or 15 chances, which hit the woodwork, the talk of 'gel' wouldn't be heard. Rather than taking time to 'gel' (this season's buzz word) I believe it's more a case of struggling to find a set up and role that suits them best when the going gets tough and the goals aren't forthcoming.

Think about the players, who it may be argued aren't 'gelling': Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing. What have they in common? When we are on top the team are creating chances and they 'gel'. It's when we start to wane that these players seem to go missing. But why are these four less effective?

In my opinion Adam ends up dropping deep and having to defend (hardly his forte). Supply to both Downing and Henderson (who's wasted out right IMO) becomes restricted and subsequently Carroll sees less of the ball.

I know I'm in a very small minority but to my mind it's less a question of the 'gel'; more a question of adapting to what the game throws at us should we fail to convert or chances.

I may be wrong but that's how I'm reading the situation. 

Totally agree.

As I said earlier they could do with following the examples being set by Suarez and Enrique.

Good thread, gives some good objectivity where it is often too easy to become downbeat/negative about the way ahead.  Patience is evidently essential, although this can be difficult at times when we don't get points where at times we all feel we should.

Many of the players we have are quality; just how much quality, time will tell. Everyone has a player/players they do not like, or management decisions they question, but there is method in the signings (there was a good article posted on here somewhere about Comolli) and it will inevitably take time for a cohesive unit to form, despite any "proven premiership status".

Looking forward to Chelsea game, should be a good contest

As I said earlier they could do with following the examples being set by Suarez and Enrique.

Then wahs, I'm sorry but you don't "totally agree". You've misunderstood what I'm getting at but it's no big deal.

These players are accused of not gelling (or going missing) but in reality they are suffering from our lack of possession.

But why are these four less effective?

In my opinion Adam ends up dropping deep and having to defend (hardly his forte). Supply to both Downing and Henderson (who's wasted out right IMO) becomes restricted and subsequently Carroll sees less of the ball.

I'm out of here. 

Then wahs, I'm sorry but you don't "totally agree". You've misunderstood what I'm getting at but it's no big deal.

These players are accused of not gelling (or going missing) but in reality they are suffering from our lack of possession.

I'm out of here. 

I don't think ten/eleven games in they have gelled mate and as a consequence we do seem to lose our way in games and squander posession.

Thats the rub of the green for me, because when we do click in games we see good signs of things to come, but when we don't click we see a squad full of individuals rather than a collective unit.

Thats why I still think we need to allow the team time to gel, once every one gets used to their role in the side and gets used to how each other plays and the runs that they make etc etc then I think we'll click far more often than we don't and consistency will eventually creep into our game.

I don't think ten/eleven games in they have gelled mate and as a consequence we do seem to lose our way in games and squander posession.

Fair enough, that's your opinion mate. I'm not trying to change it; I just see it differently.

Let's face it if we'd scored even half what we created there'd be no talk of having to gel. The players seem to gel well enough to create and our defence has been relatively solid so where is it they aren't gelling?

I believe I've put my point of view forward well enough. It's obviously against the accepted norm in this discussion and I may well be wrong but I just don't see any big absence of gelling. I'm off to work now, good luck mate.

I believe I've put my point of view forward well enough. It's obviously against the accepted norm in this discussion and I may well be wrong but I just don't see any big absence of gelling. I'm off to work now, good luck mate.

Agree with you.  I've seen plenty of 'gelling' in a lot of games. 25 chances apiece against Norwich and Stoke.  Problem is more down to consistency and ruthlessness.

12 points out of the last 18 still remains a good return.  Even if we were to carry on with that kind of form we would end the season with 73 points.

Fair enough, that's your opinion mate. I'm not trying to change it; I just see it differently.

Let's face it if we'd scored even half what we created there'd be no talk of having to gel. The players seem to gel well enough to create and our defence has been relatively solid so where is it they aren't gelling?

I believe I've put my point of view forward well enough. It's obviously against the accepted norm in this discussion and I may well be wrong but I just don't see any big absence of gelling. I'm off to work now, good luck mate.

I see your point of view mate that we are creating well enough, but the creation of chances and the defensive stability does not necessarrilly represent the squad has gelled.

Fluidity and understanding for me are the signs that the team have gelled and like I've said when they do click on the pitch they are encouraging signs for things to come, but when we don't click we play like strangers and concede possession.

When we do Gel and the fluidity and consistency creeps into our play and we start putting teams to the sword, thats when I'll fully believe the team has gelled as a unit.

You can stick 11 strangers on a football pitch mate and they will invaribly create chances just as we are, but the whole togertheness and camaraderie that we showed in the 08/09 season when spanking the Mancs and Madrid only comes from a gelled settled unit.