Would you rather WIN A TROPHY, or FINISH in the top 4?

Ask any Spurs fan, their Chairman & good old Arrie and you may get the answer

Top 4 top 4 top 4 top 4.

In the cups we (after 90 mins) won 11, drew 2 and lost 1, giving us an extra 35 points if we'd had those results instead of losing in the league. We'd have had 87 points and finished two behind the Mancs. If we'd won 6 more- sacrificing the Carling Cup but still competing in the FA Cup, we'd have had 70 points, equal with Arsenal.

Kenny thought trophies were worth more and after six years I'd agree with him. Believe he'd have prioritised the league next season though.

Admittedly a poor argument considering Exeter/Brighton etc., but shows we have the capability to win in this team and with the way our squad is it can be seen as a choice-Rafa chose the league and Europe, Kenny the cups.

At any rate, our next manager will be top 4 or bust.

Kenny has and will never choose cups instead of the league, or league instead of the cups.

We did well in the cups, no doubt but in the league, we struggled, not because Kenny didn't care about it but it just hadn't planned out the way he thought it would.

Pisses me off when people say Kenny chose cups over league games. Working under/with the great men like Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan, that's a massive disrespect to King Kenny.

Well, obviously he didn't throw the league away as a non-starter, my argument is that by playing strong sides in the cup he at least valued them higher than other managers and this had an impact on our league form- one which cost him the job.

Perhaps I phrased that wrongly, obviously Kenny wanted to do as well as possible in the league, but wanted the trophies as well. Apologies if you took that as a suggestion he didn't care about the league. Just watching him on the sidelines (God I'll miss him there) showed you how much he cares. By prioritising the league, he'd play string sides in the cups, rather than starting caring about the league more. If anyone has shown disrespect to his desire to win, then surely it is the players who could turn out dross every week in the Premiership but turned it on as soon as they smelled Wembley?

Well, obviously he didn't throw the league away as a non-starter, my argument is that by playing strong sides in the cup he at least valued them higher than other managers and this had an impact on our league form- one which cost him the job.

Perhaps I phrased that wrongly, obviously Kenny wanted to do as well as possible in the league, but wanted the trophies as well. Apologies if you took that as a suggestion he didn't care about the league. Just watching him on the sidelines (God I'll miss him there) showed you how much he cares. By prioritising the league, he'd play string sides in the cups, rather than starting caring about the league more. If anyone has shown disrespect to his desire to win, then surely it is the players who could turn out dross every week in the Premiership but turned it on as soon as they smelled Wembley?

Well I get what you mean and that was what Rafa and Roy did as well - playing second string players in the cup competitions. Yes, that will give youngsters a chance to impress and reserves/substitutes some game time as well as resting the bigger players for the league but wait ..

We were also sh*t in the league under Roy!

IMO, Kenny played full strength sides in the cups because wasn't that what Liverpool used to do? Win everything they can? Also, he showed respect to the competitions, unlike Wenger or Ferguson. Furthermore, we had to also face strong 11s against United, Everton, Man City. I know they had players injured or out in the African Nations Cup but we ourselves did not have Lucas or Suarez (if I remember against United and City).


While there is a relationship between performances in the league and whether first team players play in cup games or not, it's not the main contributing factor to the poor league position as as you said, players not exactly turning up until there was a chance for Wembley.

i think for the forth coming season i would have to say 4th,  need a pltform to entice top players again, then after that i think trophies will roll our way again anyway.  saying that if we ended up 5th with the europa cup or the fa cup id feel well chuffed and more proud of my team and could wait for another year no probs

I would prefer anything to knowing where we'll finish in the end of the season, no fun about it.

We need to be challenging for the major trophies. Those are the League and the European cup. The only way we can challenge for both is if we are up there so that means top 4. Yes obviously top 1 is the ultimate aim but I'd take finishing in the top 4 and winning Old Big Ears again 2 or 3 times.

Lets put it another way, 5 Carling Cups in the next 5 years or 5 qualifying but not doing a great deal, a la Arsenal, in the CL?

5 Carling Cups mean us playing well in 4-5 games a year (assuming the kids can take care of the lower league team) but presumably having seasons like we just had playing mediocre to poor in around 20 league games

Finishing in a Champions league qualifying places means us doing well in 20-25 games a season plus attracting revenue from another 4-5 big European nights.

As the saying goes You've got to be in it to win it! Ask the Chavs!

5 Carling Cups mean us playing well in 4-5 games a year (assuming the kids can take care of the lower league team) but presumably having seasons like we just had playing mediocre to poor in around 20 league games

Finishing in a Champions league qualifying places means us doing well in 20-25 games a season plus attracting revenue from another 4-5 big European nights.

As the saying goes You've got to be in it to win it! Ask the Chavs!

How many times have Arsenal been in it?  What's their Champions League trophy count?

Easy question for me I'll take fourth or at least CL qualification because CL qualification makes it more likely that you will win other trophies.

One is almost the pre requisite for the other.

With a few exceptions... cheers Kenny!

Lets put it another way, 5 Carling Cups in the next 5 years or 5 qualifying but not doing a great deal, a la Arsenal, in the CL?

I guess it's not as easy as answering that!

We could .. improve after winning 2 carling cups and eventually get into UCL in the 3rd season or we could also attract top players if we finish 4th in the first two seasons which may eventually lead to more trophies in the future.

And winning the Carling Cup does not give us a chance at the European Cup while being in the UCL still gives us a chance in the Carling Cup.

Arsenal may not have won a European Cup despite qualifying for it in the last 15 years or something but we won't be adding to our awesome already five if we don't enter it.

Don't get me wrong. Trophies are very important because it is what you win, that counts but for the future and potential success of the club, it's vital to be in the European's elite football competition.

Seeing 2012/2013 is our third season without Champions League (we'll be out for almost a decade by the 5 seasons come), I'm afraid we'll actually not improve alot more than we could by qualifying for the Champions League.

And as I've said before, big clubs, compete for everything best possible. Unless we accept we're no longer a big side, I don't see why many would settle for no Champions League for almost a decade. The longer we're out of it, the harder the task it is to start competiting with the best.

In this case, I'll take top four.

Lets put it another way, 5 Carling Cups in the next 5 years or 5 qualifying but not doing a great deal, a la Arsenal, in the CL?

I think the question should be "Would we be stronger and better positioned to win the CL or premier league if we had won the Carling Cup 5 times or just qualified for the CL 5 times."

In my opinion there's only one clear answer to that and it is CL qualification: we would have better finances which would allow us to build a stronger squad.

No question about it for me CL qualification every time.

Depends on how far off top four you are talking, if like this season i would take top four all day long, only way you can be the best is to play with the best

I have tried to avoid this topic as the general subject pisses me off a bit.

Liverpool Football Club survives and lives on success. For me, winning a trophy, regardless of whether or not it is the Carling Cup or the Champions league, you want to win it. Obviously, the league is your bread and butter. However, while I would love to play in the Chanpions League again, there is no guarantee you are going to do well in the competition. At the minute, we are not good enough for that European competition. We have to focus on improving or squad and consistency before we can talk about the Champions League. I want to get back their so badly, believe me.

In an ideal world, we would win the FA Cup and Carling Cup, plus finish 4th.

What a f***in stupid thread!
What the F**k does it matter what we want
Ultimately its what the owners demand, and thats a minimium of 4th

Top 4 all day for me and not even for financial reasons.

Wembley trips are great but there is nothing better than having the best teams coming to anfield on a european night and getting sent home with there tale between there legs. liverpool 4-0 real madrid

spurs finished in the top 4 this season, dont see them in the champions league next  season though!!!!

I have tried to avoid this topic as the general subject pisses me off a bit.

In an ideal world, we would win the FA Cup and Carling Cup, plus finish 4th.

 

Me too Semple.

We would win the lot ....finishing first....the Shankly way.

FSG have set the benchmark - Champions League qualification is paramount, any other achievement is shaded.
We are more than willing to be persuaded in this premise if they can provide the means that will enable LFC to attain that status.
Failure to invest of course negates any thought CL football and they can sack managers twice a month but it won't affect anything - except of course Liverpool Football Club 

FSG have set the benchmark - Champions League qualification is paramount, any other achievement is shaded.
We are more than willing to be persuaded in this premise if they can provide the means that will enable LFC to attain that status.
Failure to invest of course negates any thought CL football and they can sack managers twice a month but it won't affect anything - except of course Liverpool Football Club 

FM you mean £120 odd mil last season is not statement enough for you??
As far as investment is concerned they have well pinned their colours tp the mass!