Joe Pirlo Allen (Liverpool -> Stoke)

He was excellent yesterday. Once again proving to be a valued member of our squad.

Good performance, Joseph. Not a fan of yours but credit where credit is due when you have a good game.

Good performance, Joseph. Not a fan of yours but credit where credit is due when you have a good game.

He really is an important player to have on these away days.

I thought him and Henderson worked their Foookin arses off today, he did give away a few silly fouls in and around the box (something he might have learnt from Lucas!) but it hour he did well, it was what I would call a combative performance and given that some seem to think he is shrinking violet I mean that as a compliment

Joe and Hendo done good today. That's two tough games, no Lucas or SG, and 6 points to show. Their energy in the middle has been/is important to keep the tempo high, win back possession, keep the passing game kicking over - well done boys.

between him and hendo who both work so hard we lack goals, coutinho is starting to step up and hopefully we see more goals but i still feel there both in the team doing the same job and i feel Can instead of Allen works better as he's more powerfull and can pick out a killer pass. i like his workrate and ability to keep the ball but dont feel he's a player that can play a decent level of CL football or take us to the next level.

Allen has proven to be a useful squad player, sadly not much more than this as I expected but certainly not a useless player as some make him out to be.

certainly not a useless player as some make him out to be.

No.  He truly is useless.

Look, "squad player" doesn't mean "a player who does nothing."  If you are going to be in the squad, you should be very close to the level of the starting XI, so that in the event you have to play, there won't be a huge drop in quality.  You have to be able to make an impact.

Joe Allen has never in his life impacted a game.  Literally never.  When he is on the pitch he is just a warm body moving around.  Sideways and backwards passes.  I would honestly rather see Can move into midfield and Toure come into the back three.  I think we can all agree that that would have a much bigger impact in a game than bringing Joe Allen on.

And don't start with this size and strength bollocks. Players like Coutinho and Sterling are much smaller than Allen and yet they have no problem putting themselves about.  It's about mentality.  And Mr. Allen simply does not have it.

I believe that Allen has been unfortunate with a series of injuries. When he plays in midfield our forward have more time on the ball. He is aggressive and neat with the ball.
Our sports science folks need to make sure they keep out of the infirmary. I honestly believe that his injuries have slowed down his progression.

Joe Allen has never in his life impacted a game.  Literally never.

Yeah. Sure. Zzzz.

You're forgetting two things.

1.  At Sunderland he often played right midfield, they even said it was his best position.

2.  And last season he was played several times centrally.  He was still awful.

Oh, and can someone please let Joe Allen know that he should be playing sh*te right now?  he's young, just moved to a big club for a big fee, he's supposed to be quaking in his boots apparently.  He's not allowed to be as good as we hoped he would be, bossing midfield, etc.  No.  When you move to a big club for a big fee and you're young, you must be sh*te like Henderson.

Bossing the midfield? I wouldn't go that far mate. He never ever impacted a game in his life.

Bossing the midfield? I wouldn't go that far mate. He never ever impacted a game in his life.

Nice  one. 

Even I have to admit that he was excellent for about 4 games when he first signed.  That was about it.

I think back then I was much more optimistic towards our new signings in general.  Now I'm more cynical.  Lallana for example had several excellent games as well early on but has now become anonymous.

Although you bringing back my post from three years ago does raise a good point---he clearly has it in him not to be sh*te every game, like he has been for 95% of his Liverpool career.  So why does he not just play better?

Same thing with Mignolet.  He was excellent his first months for us when he signed, then went back to being terrible.  Now he's playing better. 

Obviously it's an issue of mentality.

And Joseph for whatever reason has lost his.

Yeah. Sure. Zzzz.

No, seriously.

Compare Allen to Can.  Allen played well in about five games when he first came.  The other 95% of the games he has appeared in, he's been utter sh*te. 

Whereas Can has had a massive impact literally in every game he has played in for us.  Despite being several years younger than Allen, despite never having played in England before.

How does that work?

Why can't we just admit that Joe Allen isn't that good?

No, seriously.

Compare Allen to Can.  Allen played well in about five games when he first came.  The other 95% of the games he has appeared in, he's been utter sh*te. 

Whereas Can has had a massive impact literally in every game he has played in for us.  Despite being several years younger than Allen, despite never having played in England before.

How does that work?

Why can't we just admit that Joe Allen isn't that good?

You were saying the same thing about Henderson.......and still are.

You were saying the same thing about Henderson.......and still are.

That's because neither of them is good enough.  Henderson at least has something in his corner since he was incredible for the second half of last season.

But I think we can all agree that Can is a better midfielder than both of them by a country mile.

Let's put it this way: if this summer we knew that we could only keep one of Allen, Henderson, and Can, and the two others would leave, who would you want us to keep?

I think 99% of us would say Can.

You were saying the same thing about Henderson.......and still are.

To be fair, Henderson had an awful start, but has moved on and improved massively. Allen hasn't progressed at all.

Allen has been here for nearly 3 years (I think?) and doesn't look like improving at all, he offers absolutely nothing imo, neither technically or physically. How long should we wait on potential to come good, there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere, where we say 'he's not turning out as we hoped'.

Personally, Allen would be one of the first players in the squad replaced this summer, because he's just taking up a space in the squad at the moment for zero return.

I stuck up for Joe for a long time, but I have to admit that he just isn't up to scratch. I remember watching him a handful of times with Swansea.... He was positive with his passing, confident in possession, had wonderful control and read the game very well defensively. However, he seems to have gone backwards since moving to LFC....

I watched the Chelsea vs PSG match the other day.... Veratti is the player Allen was supposed to be!!

That's because neither of them is good enough.  Henderson at least has something in his corner since he was incredible for the second half of last season.

But I think we can all agree that Can is a better midfielder than both of them by a country mile.

Let's put it this way: if this summer we knew that we could only keep one of Allen, Henderson, and Can, and the two others would leave, who would you want us to keep?

I think 99% of us would say Can.

By questioning Allen the way you do you question Rodgers. If BR didn't deem him good enough he wouldn't be in the squad.
He'll never be an all conquering dominating midfielder but sometimes teams need a player that can come in and out, happy to do the dirty work and that are adaptable. He clearly has the trust of BR isn't thst enough for you?

By questioning Allen the way you do you question Rodgers. If BR didn't deem him good enough he wouldn't be in the squad.  He clearly has the trust of BR isn't thst enough for you?

Erm...no.  Unlike you, I don't believe Rodgers is some infallible deity whose judgment is impeccable.

I mean even going by your own theory, I doubt you believe it yourself.  You're saying that if a player is in the squad, he is good enough.  Because If he wasn't then Rodgers wouldn't have him there.

And yet Rodgers not only had players like Lovren and Glen Johnson in the squad, no no no, he had them in the TEAM.  For months on end.  And yet you saw with your own eyes how sh*te they were.  Or did you say to yourself "I see how terrible Glen Johnson is, but I must be wrong, because Rodgers wouldn't play him if he weren't good."

So no.  The mere fact that a player is in the squad does not mean that that player is good.

Erm...no.  Unlike you, I don't believe Rodgers is some infallible deity whose judgment is impeccable.

I mean even going by your own theory, I doubt you believe it yourself.  You're saying that if a player is in the squad, he is good enough.  Because If he wasn't then Rodgers wouldn't have him there.

And yet Rodgers not only had players like Lovren and Glen Johnson in the squad, no no no, he had them in the TEAM.  For months on end.  And yet you saw with your own eyes how sh*te they were.  Or did you say to yourself "I see how terrible Glen Johnson is, but I must be wrong, because Rodgers wouldn't play him if he weren't good."

So no.  The mere fact that a player is in the squad does not mean that that player is good.

Fair points. Although the 2 you mention haven't been in the starting 11 recently, and you can't accuse BR of being scared to say to one player or another, his signings or inherited that they're not in his plans
Difference with Allen is BR brought him with him from Swansea such was his trust of him and he's been in and around the first team when fit since. He's worked with him for going on 5 years to say he hasn't worked him out by now then you are seriously questioning the mans judgement
Part of the problem I think that remains with Allen, and it's something BR needs to learn from is he's not turned out to be a "Welsh Xavi." Clearly he's not on that kind of level few are or will be. But I maintain all squads needs a Joe Allen, we'd be worse off without him

That's because neither of them is good enough.  Henderson at least has something in his corner since he was incredible for the second half of last season.

But I think we can all agree that Can is a better midfielder than both of them by a country mile.

Let's put it this way: if this summer we knew that we could only keep one of Allen, Henderson, and Can, and the two others would leave, who would you want us to keep?

I think 99% of us would say Can.

Our competitors drop points while we win away to Southampton getting us closer to top 4 placing, despite the mad optimism you try to convince that 99% are unhappy with the team!?!?
You on the right forum mate?

To be fair, Henderson had an awful start, but has moved on and improved massively. Allen hasn't progressed at all.

Allen has been here for nearly 3 years (I think?) and doesn't look like improving at all, he offers absolutely nothing imo, neither technically or physically. How long should we wait on potential to come good, there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere, where we say 'he's not turning out as we hoped'.

Personally, Allen would be one of the first players in the squad replaced this summer, because he's just taking up a space in the squad at the moment for zero return.

To be fair that particular poster is as uncharitable to Henderson as he is to Allen
 As is his way he mixes the two players up in a ''who is worst'' comparison initiated by
 himself, using his suggested criteria implying there is little difference.
 Having a laff alright. 

Joe Allen is a Rodgers 1.0 signing. Technically gifted player that he trusted to know his methods.

As such he's outdated now.
Rodgers 2.0 signings have power as well as technique,
and it expands to the young players that are getting chances.

Early on a lot of our signings had at a minimum technical ability.
Those that didn't have pace/power to add to that quickly got cast aside.

Allen is no different. He's a squad player now and will struggle to get in the 18
when everyone in the squad is fit.