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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. MOTM v Stoke

      Simon Mignolet
      0 (0%)
      Kolo Toure
      1 (0.7%)
      Aly Cissokho
      0 (0%)
      Martin Skrtel
      1 (0.7%)
      Glen Johnson
      0 (0%)
      Steven Gerrard
      11 (7.3%)
      Lucas Leiva
      1 (0.7%)
      Jordan Henderson
      0 (0%)
      Raheem Sterling
      44 (29.3%)
      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Luis Suarez
      76 (50.7%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      16 (10.7%)

      Total Members Voted: 148

      Voting closed: Jan 17, 2014 06:30:29 pm

      Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief

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      Alfie2510
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #713: Jan 12, 2014 10:56:16 pm
      enjoy the victory. That's what matters. Stevie is 34 this year he knows his days are numbered. He's never been a natural holding mid. I think with Sturridge back BR will drop Lucas back into a mid 2 with Gerrard. It's not a bad line up . I wouldn't mind trying Lucas further forward with Henderson but he needs time to adapt.

      In any case we won so f*ck it well done to us!


      This

      We (myself included) are getting bogged down in negatives on a day we won at Stoke scoring 5 in the process.
      Sturridge and Gerrard are back. We're in the top 4 with 2 home games to come and fingers crossed one or two additions to the squad
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #714: Jan 12, 2014 11:27:37 pm
      What a fvcking game!

      Dare I say it, I felt we were fortunate and of the edge of it for a good 60 odd minutes. And credit to Stoke for this (I don't like them), their work rate and commitment and our defensive vulnerability ensured they could keep knocking on the door for most of this match. We have a touch of the Kevin Keegan's and I'm not sure I like it personally, we just can't shut teams out even at 2-0 up.

      Our first goal was lucky, our second one was 'crash bang wallop' from Skertel and Suarez who personifies Stoke collectively chased a hopeful smash, and stuck with it to give us a two goal lead. During Cissoko's deflection and Suarez's goal Coutinho had an effort that he should have done better with. His shooting is ordinary and I thought we'd pay the price for this. Suarez scores. Crouch replies with a great header which I thought both Johnson especially (who looks very laboured at the minute) and Suarez should have done better in preventing the cross. Coutinho then has another chance at 2-1 up with a volley and I was cursing him and his shooting by then because I know we're susceptible to conceding goals. Then, Adam scores a cracker which I thought Skertel could have done a bit better with, closing down (BTW I thought both Toure and Skertel had a decent game).

      2-2 at half time and I thought here we go, we've conceded a 2 goal lead again, Stoke are on the up and then we get what IMO was a soft penalty; but one never the less, because had that have been anywhere else on the pitch a free kick would have been given; not by Mason or Webb I might add but still... All this was happening while Lucas was playing an advanced role  :o and he to me looked like a fish out of water which isn't surprising since he hasn't had sight of an oppositions goal since his Gremio days.

      Rodgers then makes a great substitution, quite a bold one really when most pragmatic managers would have brought on another defensive minded player in those circumstances - he brings on Sturridge! We revert to a 4-4-2 and it was a bit reassuring at this point to see Lucas sit next to Gerrard even though I don't think it's our best formula to win matches  ??? but at this point in time it was. I think the 4-3-3 is slightly better because we look really fluid going forward. Yet we still have the players to make a 4-4-2 look fluid and anything unlike the one Roy Hodgson uses, but I'm not sure about the midfield as much in this system, or the personnel at least.. Anyway, I digress, Sturridge makes an immediate impact with his pace and directness, then minutes later he lays a ball out wide without looking up after turning a Stoke defender for Luis Suarez to score a peach of a pass into the back of the net!!!

      Finally, we looked as if we had taken the game by the scruff of the neck and we're in control, then they score a goal which I think Mignolet should have done better with. Overall I thought our keeper looked ropey today, primarily because his weakness is commanding his box and coming to take all the set-pieces Adam & co whipped in. 4-3 and I thought, this is going to end 4-4 absolutely bricking it I was, then Suarez and Sturridge combine and Daniel does brilliant to finish that effort off to make it 5-3. A great return for him a substitution that paid dividends for Rodgers to. On a side note, it's a slight concern to me re the temperament of both SAS when one is in a better position than the other but the other rather takes the individual option leaving his striking partner looking bemused or throwing his hands in the air.

      In the end, as much as I have applauded Stoke for their commitment our lads showed remarkable character to end a hoodoo on that ground in an hostile atmosphere where the conditions suited our opponents more. I thought that our CB's were good and our fullbacks not so. I have always been a fan of Johnson and have always defended him as I believe he used to get unwarranted stick but his form over the last ten games or so has been abysmal. Cissoko scares the $hit out of me and I have kittens when he's on the ball in our defensive third. He also isn't a willing runner going forward and at times will withdraw himself as an option down the flank which isn't good to see.

      Gerrard had the holding role to himself and overall he was very good. He made 2 or 3 bogus passes that put us immediately on the back foot but his defensive duties were sound, and his passing apart from that was good. He likes to force the play with his passes sometimes (I don't mind that because when it pays off and mostly is does we can open sides up) but when those risky passes are intercepted it tends to put us straight on the back foot. He needs to pick these out better at times, but it's good to have a player with that range of passing at the axis of midfield.

      Sterling I thought again was very good and lively. His recent form has helped this team no end and he has been a key player. His pace to exploit and threaten defenses again has massively picked up - like last season and his tracking back for the team is good to. He seems to link up really well with Suarez and I think the Uruguayan enjoys him in the team as Raheem always looks to link up and do something in the final third for Suarez and the team.

      An important three points, a thrilling game to watch, well done to Brendan and the boys for being the second team to win at the Britannia this season!'

       :kop5cf8koxp6:
      « Last Edit: Jan 12, 2014 11:49:30 pm by Beerbelly »
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #715: Jan 12, 2014 11:29:09 pm
      I thought Mig had a good and off day.  off when he let in their third goal... but damn good when he saved the hardest shot of the day... Gerrard's possible OG header


      either way, I am very happy to see SaS back in action... we have so much more confidence when we get both stur and Suarez on the field.  BR does need to sort out the midfields a bit.  playing SG as a DM makes sense but pushing lucas up when lucas isnt the most mobile creates a slight breakage of flow from back to front.  however this was only the first game like this so lets see how they progress

      either 3 pts!
      AlexLFC95
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #716: Jan 12, 2014 11:32:20 pm
      I'm just going to say it. I love our third kit.
      JD
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #717: Jan 12, 2014 11:35:37 pm
      You must of been watching a different game to me then lad, several other forums have said Gerrard had a decent game and got on the score sheet also.

      I also thought he was poor.  Always looked a yard off the pace - Stoke had plenty of the ball just in front of him.  Totally unconvinced that he should be playing there.  Seems to be more about keeping him in the team than thinking about the future of our club.  Would rather have him for 60 minutes every game as an attacking midfielder than 90 minutes of him keeping the likes of Lucas out of a defensive midfield role.
      GERNS
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #718: Jan 12, 2014 11:41:46 pm
      Well I haven't seen the full game. Will do later, but what I have seen suggests Sissoko is not up to the standard we would require. Did post in the pre match that I thought he would be a weak link. Would have preferred Johnson at L B and Flanno at RB but is seems Flanno was unavailable and Johnson had a mare anyway. Think he's trying to say 'if you don't sort out my contract, I'm not gonna try.'  He's been sh*te all season so time to improve or be benched. He's had enough time. Centre mid, Neither Gerrard, Henderson or Lucas had anything close to their best game, and that will improve with more competition for places. So we had  two poor full backs, a mediocre midfield, Centre backs exposed too often and a keeper with the jitters on occasions. Well all sides have poor games, yet we score 5, win at Stoke for the first time, (where some of our top 4 opponents won't win this season) get back in the top 4, and look forward to the next game with the confidence that we can score more than them !
      Winning ugly usually means a scrappy 1 - 0 win, not an 8 goal epic. Why is there so much negativity and bitchin going on ? I'm not happy with the overall performance but a win's a win. 3 points we haven't had before, so lets crack on. Looking forward to watching the full game later tonight, after which I will post my motm. C.O.Y.M.REDS.
      We probably won't play as bad collectively again this season and score 5.             Just a thought, has Hendo lost it a bit due to Gerrards presence, awe struck like ?
      mcarz
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #719: Jan 12, 2014 11:50:35 pm
      On the topic of Gerrard: I didn't think he had the greatest of games. Sometimes the simple pass is the best pass but he tends to try too many long range passes when there are no available options.

      The defence needs massive work, it simply isn't good enough. Skrtel frustrates me, he struggles to win headers, he struggles marking yet if there is a sliding challenge to be made he is the one defender you want making it. As a whole, we got 3 points and scored 5 goals against Stoke on their home turf which is a massive plus. Only the second team to beat them at home in the league this season. Next up, a home game at Villa, lets see how they play tomorrow.

      Ju
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #720: Jan 12, 2014 11:53:19 pm
      Just changed my fb pic to suarez the incredible hulk pic , loving it
      Ju
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #721: Jan 12, 2014 11:53:56 pm
      good things come to those who wait, 4 years in the making
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #722: Jan 12, 2014 11:57:48 pm
      Well I haven't seen the full game. Will do later, but what I have seen suggests Sissoko is not up to the standard we would require. Did post in the pre match that I thought he would be a weak link. Would have preferred Johnson at L B and Flanno at RB but is seems Flanno was unavailable and Johnson had a mare anyway. Think he's trying to say 'if you don't sort out my contract, I'm not gonna try.'  He's been sh*te all season so time to improve or be benched. He's had enough time. Centre mid, Neither Gerrard, Henderson or Lucas had anything close to their best game, and that will improve with more competition for places. So we had  two poor full backs, a mediocre midfield, Centre backs exposed too often and a keeper with the jitters on occasions. Well all sides have poor games, yet we score 5, win at Stoke for the first time, (where some of our top 4 opponents won't win this season) get back in the top 4, and look forward to the next game with the confidence that we can score more than them !
      Winning ugly usually means a scrappy 1 - 0 win, not an 8 goal epic. Why is there so much negativity and bitchin going on ? I'm not happy with the overall performance but a win's a win. 3 points we haven't had before, so lets crack on. Looking forward to watching the full game later tonight, after which I will post my motm. C.O.Y.M.REDS.
      We probably won't play as bad collectively again this season and score 5.             Just a thought, has Hendo lost it a bit due to Gerrards presence, awe struck like ?

      compared to johnson, cissokho was motm material.  Aly has the desire.. i can see it... he just needs to work on his skill and up his stamina big time.  the FB position in BR's style takes a ton of energy to do well... it also is a critical link between back to forward.  Aly's technical skill level just isnt there yet.  but the lad is young.

      I am in the camp that you can teach skill but you cannot teach passion and desire. 
      Ju
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #723: Jan 12, 2014 11:58:21 pm
      ive never stop watching a match or left a game early when we have been losing but thought about it for a mintute when stoke made it 2-2, thought that we were cursed at their ground. Well done lads this is a massive win.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #724: Jan 12, 2014 11:59:23 pm
      I thought Gerrard was ok, not amazing, not terrible. Good defending but gave the ball away too often.

      Cissokho and Johnson were relatively poor too to be fair.

      Massive positives going forward though... Suarez, sterling and Sturridge were just brilliant, causing havoc all day.

      I'm really pleased for Sterling by the way, he really is stepping up! His end product could be a little better sometimes but you can't fault his desire and positional play... Fantastic prospect.

      I didn't think the centre halves had a bad game either, even though we did concede 3 goals.

      Quick comment on Coutinho... I agree with others on this forum about his finishing needing to be better, however he does suit our style of football and his movement is excellent. We have to keep playing him because when he does find his range he'll become lethal. Patience is the key word with that man.

      3 points away at Stoke? F***ing brilliant. Massive win!!
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #725: Jan 13, 2014 12:02:05 am
      I also thought he was poor.  Always looked a yard off the pace - Stoke had plenty of the ball just in front of him.  Totally unconvinced that he should be playing there.  Seems to be more about keeping him in the team than thinking about the future of our club.  Would rather have him for 60 minutes every game as an attacking midfielder than 90 minutes of him keeping the likes of Lucas out of a defensive midfield role.

      I agree 100%. Gerrard offers more offensively than Lucas where as Lucas offers more defensively than Gerrard, so this decision baffled me. For me, Gerrard and Lucas had poor games overall. I honestly felt stoke had control over us for the majority of the match.

      If Gerrard were to play in a more defensive role on a regular basis, he would need a tenacious type defensive midfielder in the Mascharano mould(M'Vila? :D). Gerrard simply doesn't have the legs to track back or to press opponents on a regular basis. With a tenacious def mid next to Gerrard, I honestly believe this would bring out the absolute best in Gerrard at his age. It would allow him more freedom, driving forward if needed, moving into space regularly etc. I think Gerrard is more suited to becoming a covering defensive midfielder(deep lying playmaker?)rather and a pure defensive one.

      s@int
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #726: Jan 13, 2014 12:12:48 am
      Sadly Lucas hasn't been the same since his injury. He has won only 44% of his tackles this season which by any standards is poor. I think Brendan rather than looking to find a place for Gerrard, has been looking for someone to allow him to move Lucas out of the defensive role.



      vulcan_red
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #727: Jan 13, 2014 12:55:29 am
      Sadly Lucas hasn't been the same since his injury. He has won only 44% of his tackles this season which by any standards is poor. I think Brendan rather than looking to find a place for Gerrard, has been looking for someone to allow him to move Lucas out of the defensive role.





      Its difficult this one for example is Lucas going to win more tackles behind Henderson and Allen say. If he is playing in the middle with Gerrard and mopping up for a midfielder who is next to him as opposed to in front of him then this may have a great deal of influence on his stats. Stevie was/is a bit a phenomenon. I think BR is acomodating stevie and has now pushed Lucas foreward more. I think Lucas can do this but I think with Sturridge back he will put Stevie and Lucas alongside each ohter which impacts Henderson's role unless he drops him and plays Coutinho, Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge.
      Muzzman1969
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #728: Jan 13, 2014 01:03:16 am
      Very entertaining game and I think we are the first team to win there this season - they had only conceded 7 in 10 games.  Although his second finish was "sumptuous", I thought his first goal summed Luis up brilliantly - he never stops, and there are not many strikers who would have still been in the right place by the time it came to him.

      The return of Sturridge is very timely - there link up is very hard to defend against and will be a nightmare for any defence to cope with.  Now if only they could teach Coutinho how to shoot.

      Loved Rogers' "Spanish penalty" remark - not one I have heard before.

      First win at the Brittania in the league and a double over Stoke - will take that.
      GERNS
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #729: Jan 13, 2014 01:09:56 am
      compared to johnson, cissokho was motm material.  Aly has the desire.. i can see it... he just needs to work on his skill and up his stamina big time.  the FB position in BR's style takes a ton of energy to do well... it also is a critical link between back to forward.  Aly's technical skill level just isnt there yet.  but the lad is young.

      I am in the camp that you can teach skill but you cannot teach passion and desire.
      Sorry to disagree, but we can't afford to have players who 'will come good in time' at this level. You're either good enough for the first 11 or not. On current form neither Sissoko or Johnson are up to it.
      As for teaching skill. Are you having a laugh? if that was the case, we'd all get a game, and be taught as we go along. Skill is a natural talent which players at this level are gifted with. (or not in the case of Sissoko) You can teach/coach tactics and movement. Positional sense and the like, but not skill. That's god given.
      GERNS
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #730: Jan 13, 2014 01:21:20 am
      Watched the game now, and gave Stirling motm. Thought he had a good game , battle hard for everything, never stopped running and was a constant threat to stoke. He's starting to mature football wise, and i'm sure the best is yet to come.
      Just for the record. On Crouchies goal, Skrtel took to marking whoever it was up top with crouch, and pointed and told Toure to pick crouch up. It was Toure who lost him, not Skrtel. He couldn't mark both, and tracked the player who was trying to get behind him.
      Nox
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #731: Jan 13, 2014 01:24:56 am
      My god that game was too much, 3 points and Sturridge back! Bring on the next game.
      Billy1
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #732: Jan 13, 2014 04:07:45 am
      3 points in the bag and that will do for me, I must admit that Stoke gave me the shits 10 minutes before half time. I will watch a replay of the match in a couple of hours and maybe digest the rights and wrongs. It all worked out well in the end so well done to our lads.
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #733: Jan 13, 2014 04:37:41 am
      Sorry to disagree, but we can't afford to have players who 'will come good in time' at this level. You're either good enough for the first 11 or not. On current form neither Sissoko or Johnson are up to it.
      As for teaching skill. Are you having a laugh? if that was the case, we'd all get a game, and be taught as we go along. Skill is a natural talent which players at this level are gifted with. (or not in the case of Sissoko) You can teach/coach tactics and movement. Positional sense and the like, but not skill. That's god given.

      i understand what you are saying.  and yes i agree that at the liverpool lvl their skills should be much higher.  btw i think you were thinking talent vs developed skill... i agree with you if what you mean is talent.   however i personally dont think cissokho is that bad.  could we improve on him ... absolutely yes.. and i am def happy he is just a loan player.   i guess what i am trying to say is that at least he shows more desire and passion for the game as a loan player than a starting xi full fledged red called johnson.    i really liked johnson a few years back... dont know where his spark went

      lastly, do us a favour and spell cissokho please? sissoko is another player altogether :D
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #734: Jan 13, 2014 05:10:03 am
      My bad knew I should have researched that

       :lmao:
      BKLFC
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Stoke 3-5 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Delightful Relief
      Reply #735: Jan 13, 2014 05:31:28 am
      Get the f**k in. We did it at the cold, wet Brittania at night....;D...yessssss
      My sentiminos exactimus. Well done boys, it's been that fecking long.

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