The only thing I am arguing is defense. Passing is not defense. Passing is an attribute to not have to play defense, but it isn't defense.
Passing is an attribute, and having a composed passer in our DM contributes to defensive play, this is what I mean, so a strong passer = possession play = form of defensive.
Again I do not believe you read my post. I specifically said in there I have no idea what kind of player Can will be in the DM position because I have not yet seen him play there. I never judged him and said he was our best DM.
You placed him ahead of Lucas and Allen in the best starting line up thread which indicates you are judging him on his abilities and believing he is the better player.
however a CB is much more demanding defensively than a DM. Therefore, to say a DM is no good because he can't defend when he excelled as a CB is just an oxymoron and completely untrue regardless of who the person is.
Again, this is about opinions and I believe DM is more demanding than CB.
And who is saying a CB who can defend can't defend as a DM? You stick a CB as a striker, and he can still defend. What I am saying is, you stick someone like Terry or Metesacker in DM and they would be poor defensively (as a whole) in midfield and would probably weaken the team because it requires different defensive skill sets.
Again, I don't give a f**k about other DM's. Re-read what I said. I said "I have never seen a defensive mid play good defense by alone having good positioning and awareness. He has to have that edge to tackle and mark and win the ball back." I am not talking about a guy playing good at the position. I am saying I have never seen someone playing good defense by only having those attributes.
All players can tackle, mark, nick the ball etc, some do it better than others. Look at Carrick a player who you don't associate with being a fantastic tackler like, Masch, Nainggolan, Medal etc, yet Carrick's anticipation, positioning, awareness etc allows him to excel in a CB and DM role.
My main point is that you are judging Can's abilities to play DM from his U21 team as well playing CB for LFC. The only way to know if he will be a good DM for us is when he actually starts playing DM for us.
You are right, the only true way to know is if the player plays in that particular position, but aren't you also judging Can's abilities by placing him ahead of Lucas and Allen?
You can't sit here and say he isn't good enough for the DM role when he hasn't even played in that role for this club.
Mignolet
Ibe/Wisdom Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Can
Milner Henderson
Coutinho
Sturridge Sterling
Yet you can sit there and say he's good enough for the DM role when you haven't seen him play that role for us?
Look, I'll say it again, I do not think Can is good enough to play DM for us and should not be ahead of Allen and Lucas because their attributes are more in sync with our playing style as well as being better defensively in midfield.
In saying that, if played in midfield, he looks more of a CM(not box-box) where he'll have more freedom to burst forward, but also has the security of a DM to cover him. And as mentioned, in the form of Yaya.