What if Jürgen binned the lot of em against Leicester? Are we prepared to lose?

I was thinking about this earlier, and I reckon I've just about got is sussed out if Jürgen wanted to make a real statement. It may arguably make us slightly less likely to win (I don't think it would), but I reckon it'd be worth it both to send out a message, AND to have a look at some alternative players. By my reckoning ONLY Henderson should keep his spot, so how about TEN changes to the starting line up against Leicester? Go on Jürgen, just f****** do it:


                                         Mignolet


          Randall          Lovren (if fit)     Toure           Smith



           Ibe              Teixera         Henderson         Milner   


                              Benteke        Origi



 There, TEN changes from the starting line up against Watford. To my mind there's not a fan at Anfield who would criticise him even if Leicester rolled into town and turned us over. Lets give some other lads a go.       
 

To be honest Mick I think Leicester could really embarrass us if we don't treat them with respect. Already reckon they must be favorites, they play in pretty much the ideal way to get points of us. Sit deep, big defenders, and break with real pace with Vardy and Mahrez the PL's in form clinical finishers.
Also, when you look at one swap we made last week, Bogdan for Migs, that didn't go so well. So would be wary of making wholesale changes.
We're at home, but is high press wise? Commit guys high, then leave ourselves open to them on the break?
Would probably drop Lallana and Firmino for Origi and Ibe, and bring back Migs and Lovren if fit.

           Mignolet
Clyne Lovren Toure Moreno
    Can Hendo Milner
   Ibe  Origi Coutinho

This could easily be another defeat if the players don't up the game from last week.

Well it's not going to happen is it and why would we be prepared to lose?! Ridiculous.

I was thinking about this earlier, and I reckon I've just about got is sussed out if Jürgen wanted to make a real statement. It may arguably make us slightly less likely to win (I don't think it would), but I reckon it'd be worth it both to send out a message, AND to have a look at some alternative players. By my reckoning ONLY Henderson should keep his spot, so how about TEN changes to the starting line up against Leicester? Go on Jürgen, just f****** do it:


                                         Mignolet


          Randall          Lovren (if fit)     Toure           Smith



           Ibe              Teixera         Henderson         Milner   


                              Benteke        Origi



 There, TEN changes from the starting line up against Watford. To my mind there's not a fan at Anfield who would criticise him even if Leicester rolled into town and turned us over. Lets give some other lads a go.       
 

Bit early for the Christmas sherry.

Bit early for the Christmas sherry.

It's never too early for the Christmas sherry, especially after yesterday! Leicester are favourites, as they should be, so, if Jürgen wants to make 10 change, I can live with that! Could they really do any worse than yesterday!

Well it's not going to happen is it and why would we be prepared to lose?! Ridiculous.

  Oh dear. Being "prepared to lose" doesn't mean you try and lose, or even that you want to lose. Being prepared to lose means that you are prepared to take a gamble in favour of the bigger picture, something which maybe more important than the result of a particular game. In this instance, would we be any more likely to get a result with the team whcih started against Watford than we would with ten changes? Possibly, but then again we may lose the match in any case even if we don't make changes.

My point is that it would be worth taking a bit of a risk (and IMHO it would be a pretty small risk, this team would beat the one which played against Watford if they came anywhere near playing as bad again) in order to make a point, AND to have a look at the likes of Teixera. If he can't get a game after a performance like that, ditto Benteke, Origi, Ibe etc then we should get rid.

Making no changes, now THAT would be ridiculous.

To be honest Mick I think Leicester could really embarrass us if we don't treat them with respect. Already reckon they must be favorites, they play in pretty much the ideal way to get points of us. Sit deep, big defenders, and break with real pace with Vardy and Mahrez the PL's in form clinical finishers.
Also, when you look at one swap we made last week, Bogdan for Migs, that didn't go so well. So would be wary of making wholesale changes.
We're at home, but is high press wise? Commit guys high, then leave ourselves open to them on the break?
Would probably drop Lallana and Firmino for Origi and Ibe, and bring back Migs and Lovren if fit.

           Mignolet
Clyne Lovren Toure Moreno
    Can Hendo Milner
   Ibe  Origi Coutinho

This could easily be another defeat if the players don't up the game from last week.

Fair enough mate, but with five changes we half agree!

Bit early for the Christmas sherry.

no let him drink far more we might get some sense

no let him drink far more we might get some sense

 Haha the big fellas in the house!!

  Oh dear. Being "prepared to lose" doesn't mean you try and lose, or even that you want to lose. Being prepared to lose means that you are prepared to take a gamble in favour of the bigger picture, something which maybe more important than the result of a particular game. In this instance, would we be any more likely to get a result with the team whcih started against Watford than we would with ten changes? Possibly, but then again we may lose the match in any case even if we don't make changes.

My point is that it would be worth taking a bit of a risk (and IMHO it would be a pretty small risk, this team would beat the one which played against Watford if they came anywhere near playing as bad again) in order to make a point, AND to have a look at the likes of Teixera. If he can't get a game after a performance like that, ditto Benteke, Origi, Ibe etc then we should get rid.

Making no changes, now THAT would be ridiculous.

I know what being prepared to lose means...

Great idea for a team low on confidence at the moment, drop the lot of them. Genius that, then when it looks like a bunch of fringe players that haven't played together for a while people will wonder why.

no let him drink far more we might get some sense

Mick is a good poster mate. Just talking slight b0llocks (65%) on this occasion 

Fair enough mate, but with five changes we half agree!

Jeez, was that five !! Guess half a team IS pretty close to wholesale

There are certain players that probably feel that their place isn't under threat, so definitely dropping the likes of Lallana, Can, Firmino, Moreno, might give them the push they need to step it up a notch.

I know what being prepared to lose means...

Great idea for a team low on confidence at the moment, drop the lot of them. Genius that, then when it looks like a bunch of fringe players that haven't played together for a while people will wonder why.

Low on confidence, or not trying hard enough? I don't think any of them doubt their ability, the problem is they seem to be operating at 70% instead of.giving their all.

Whoever Klopp selects must perform with full grit and determination, that is a must no compromise after last game.

 A bit of mischief might get a result.

+1  Mick .

Low on confidence, or not trying hard enough? I don't think any of them doubt their ability, the problem is they seem to be operating at 70% instead of.giving their all.

Probably a mixture of both but dropping them all isn't the answer.

I would certainly make changes Mick, but not sure I would go all the way (I'm no slut)

Firmino and Lallana without a doubt should be dropped and probably Lucas too. The rest I think we have to stick with because we have no real alternatives, unless Mignolet and Lovren are fit which would then take me up towards half way. I was tempted to bring Brad Smith in too but I don't think it would be fair on the lad.

Hopefully Sturridge is back for the Leicester game and then it won't really matter who the other 10 are

           
 

Probably a mixture of both but dropping them all isn't the answer.

The answer is 42 

Think a big change is needed, if for nothing more than to give a few players a wake up call.  I'd probably opt for:

Migs
Clyne - Toure - Lovren - Moreno
Milner - Allen - Hendo - Ibe
Benteke - Origi

I said in the match thread that I wondered if some off them were looking for Christmas off.

So no in this instance I'd have them training Christmas Day, play exactly the same team and dare them to F**k up again.

Randall, Toure and Lovren 

I know it's the festive season Mick but you on the whiskey already?

By my reckoning ONLY Henderson should keep his spot

why should Henderson keep his spot?

I said in the match thread that I wondered if some off them were looking for Christmas off.

So no in this instance I'd have them training Christmas Day, play exactly the same team and dare them to f**k up again.

See I like this idea and it is the 'luxury' we have this season if we're completely honest with ourselves.

If they can't perform when confronted with challenges such as that then you can be confident in not selecting them in the future.

Some will see this as frustrating but honestly in time it might work out really well for Jürgen's future plans, but as many have already said it might simply not be possible in the Jan window. It's going to be a really interesting summer for us, with the journos already reporting we have money to spend (hoping it's not £1.56 like but still it sounds more encouraging than it has before).

I was thinking about this earlier, and I reckon I've just about got is sussed out if Jürgen wanted to make a real statement. It may arguably make us slightly less likely to win (I don't think it would), but I reckon it'd be worth it both to send out a message, AND to have a look at some alternative players. By my reckoning ONLY Henderson should keep his spot, so how about TEN changes to the starting line up against Leicester? Go on Jürgen, just f****** do it:


                                         Mignolet


          Randall          Lovren (if fit)     Toure           Smith



           Ibe              Teixera         Henderson         Milner   


                              Benteke        Origi



 There, TEN changes from the starting line up against Watford. To my mind there's not a fan at Anfield who would criticise him even if Leicester rolled into town and turned us over. Lets give some other lads a go.       
 

Bit radical Mick, I'll give them all the opportunities till the Jan transfer window opens.

I like the idea though of no one is safe and we are willing to listen to offers, may just shake them up a bit.

I know what being prepared to lose means...

Great idea for a team low on confidence at the moment, drop the lot of them. Genius that, then when it looks like a bunch of fringe players that haven't played together for a while people will wonder why.

Well you do now as I've just explained it to you, you're welcome.

As for the "great idea" bit, it is a bit out there I must admit. The issue though against Watford wasn't one of confidence it was of desire (in my opinion obviously), both on a collective and individual level. And in fairness most of the changes I'm advocating (albeit slightly tongue in cheek) don't involve "fringe" players. Three of those "fringe" players took part in our defeat at Watford from off the bench, and two of those three we bought for a combined fee of 43 million quid, hardly unknowns. Jordan Ibe is hardly "fringe " either, nor is Simon Mignolet, Dejan Lovren or James Milner. Toure and the three young kids are "fringe" I'll give you that, but they can't do any worse than the shower on Sunday.

If having said all of that those on Sunday are as you say "lacking in confidence", I wonder do you think that makes it more likely,, less likely or no difference whether the team would be improved by adding players whose confidence level was normal? It's an interesting one.

I was thinking about this earlier, and I reckon I've just about got is sussed out if Jürgen wanted to make a real statement. It may arguably make us slightly less likely to win (I don't think it would), but I reckon it'd be worth it both to send out a message, AND to have a look at some alternative players. By my reckoning ONLY Henderson should keep his spot, so how about TEN changes to the starting line up against Leicester? Go on Jürgen, just f****** do it:


                                         Mignolet


          Randall          Lovren (if fit)     Toure           Smith



           Ibe              Teixera         Henderson         Milner   


                              Benteke        Origi



 There, TEN changes from the starting line up against Watford. To my mind there's not a fan at Anfield who would criticise him even if Leicester rolled into town and turned us over. Lets give some other lads a go.       
 

I'd agree with this happening, looks like a good team too, I've read through the forum, most of the changes Klopp made when Watford outclassed/out-bossed us were changes everyone was clamouring for. Change the goalie etc. Then when it failed most of the people just miraculously and conveniently forgot that they were going on about that very team or close to it.
I think Klopp will start putting his foot down now, players will respect it, he can motivate and keep moral up but there needs to be discipline and that's good for everyone involved.
The initial period of getting to know players and people at the club is transitioning into rules about what will be required on a consistent basis week to week (or you're out.)
Working hard is how Liverpool achieved any of the honours we did, I'm still really confused how non of our players can just keep hold of the ball or compose themselves and do the simple things (Texeira is good at this). Technically we look terrible. Of course this is amplified because of the last game but even when we are winning we just give the other team the ball so cheaply.

I would imagine/expect a far easier game against Leicester than Watford, not because they're an easier team or because I expect a result, but simply because I expect them to attack. I expect them to take the game to Liverpool which plays into our counter attacking style. We might still lose but either way I think we'll see a better performance. I also don't expect wholesale changes, as tempting as that might be.

The thing is Mick, it wasnt individual player error. If one, two or there players are gash you could drop them. But if its a whole team underperform (to put it lightly), you better think whats the cause.

Yes, if we had 2 top class 11-a side teams you could switch between them as you will. As it is, its Henderson and you have to add to your team some other "not so shocking" performers in Origi, Moreno, Clyne and Lovren (if fit), you gotta add strong mentalities like Lucas and Milner not fussed about about last performance, and find the rest.

My team for Leicester:

               a keeper

Clyne Lovren Sakho Moreno
          Lucas Hendo
  Milner(Ibe)         Couts
            Origi  Benteke

Cou in for Benteke and I don't mind the team that much

I do like the idea of a massive shake up and a kick up the arse for the fancy Dan mentality.

I do think though, after calming down (slowly) that we need a couple of solid dependables for the others to look to in a crisis.

Milner is an automatic start for me, and I'd add Toure because of his experience and calm (that's inevitable anyway given the injury situation). I think there's room for a young kid or two, because some of young lads are desperate to show what they can do and fearless enthusiasm can work wonders.

Fear factor players like Firmino,  and Can I'd leave out for now.  (I'd drop Can for his 'slap in the face antics alone).

I don't think it's outlandish.  We need players who will live and breathe our colours, or we'll be relegation candidates before too long.  Scrap, fight, battle, bully, and then you've earned the right to play.  We are too bloody nice!

What if we binned them off and won?

Chose the side based on the response in training and the players that fit the gameplan to beat Leicster. Rashness is never the answer.

If we binned all the recognised first team squad and played all our younger players we would probably beat Leicester.One thing for sure we would get 100% effort from the young lads,they would put the senior players to shame.

See I like this idea and it is the 'luxury' we have this season if we're completely honest with ourselves.

If they can't perform when confronted with challenges such as that then you can be confident in not selecting them in the future.

You're right.  We won't be winning the league this season.  We (most likely) won't be getting into a Champions League spot.  Fans excitement, if we're being honest, is probably now aimed at the cup competitions.

It would be better if we could salvage a few players out of this god knows how much we've spent.  Let's see which players really are spineless and which have merely become spineless by association.

I'd imagine Klopp is learning far more about certain players in the last two games than he did against Chelsea and City.

If we binned all the recognised first team squad and played all our younger players we would probably beat Leicester.

First of all I don't believe that's a probable at all.

And then if we get hammered - then what.  Which person at Anfield looks like the muppet?

I've probably called for something similar in the past but it's usually one of the things approaching the end game of a manager.  Klopp has the luxury of not having brought in a single one of these players - therefore at present their lack of ability does not reflect on him.  He doesn't need to alienate them just yet.

You're right.  We won't be winning the league this season.  We (most likely) won't be getting into a Champions League spot.  Fans excitement, if we're being honest, is probably now aimed at the cup competitions.

It would be better if we could salvage a few players out of this god knows how much we've spent.  Let's see which players really are spineless and which have merely become spineless by association.

I'd imagine Klopp is learning far more about certain players in the last two games than he did against Chelsea and City.

I do not believe it will happen either and there is no way I would hold Klopp responsible for players that he was not responsible for signing.JD I am not criticising you but you once told me not to take the forum too seriously so I attempted to do that in my post.

Let's only hope whoever plays in goal against Leicester on Boxing day, does not hand out any more "Christmas presents" to the opposition. That is half the problem as we all know.

BTW perhaps the solution is to bin both keepers.

Let's only hope whoever plays in goal against Leicester on Boxing day, does not hand out any more "Christmas presents" to the opposition. That is half the problem as we all know.

Is right ... and the first problem to get sorted David.

BTW perhaps the solution is to bin both keepers.

Until the Watford game though, Bogdan had looked very competent in the appearances he'd made. Claiming crosses, decent distribution, solid shot stopping. His head dropped straight after the clanger though and he never fully recovered his confidence.

I think he can still be a fairly good back up keeper, but definitely not our no.1, same as Migs shouldn't be our no.1.

OP has had too much gin without the tonic

Well you do now as I've just explained it to you, you're welcome.

Oh dear...

We all know if we "bin the lot", Enrique would still be no closer to starting a game...ever

I would have liked to see a team that blew off city/Chelsea...hmm, But those same players were on the pitch against Watford !!
I am not for radical changes ,(as in the first post) but some has to be done due to form /plan or injury
 whoever Klopp chooses lets hope they surprise us all with a great performance, I like to think positive, as I did last game,        Just hope they get it right this time

YNWA

BTW perhaps the solution is to bin both keepers.

Play last man back? Works for my 5 a side team.

We all know if we "bin the lot", Enrique would still be no closer to starting a game...ever

which of course makes no sense.  When he WAS playing, he was a solid LB.  World-class?  no.  But at least he could defend.  Which is more than we can say about Moreno.

What if we binned them off and won?

That wouldn't be a surprise, really. This is exactly the problem we're facing: we can go from winning hard games and '' murdering '' big clubs to losing easy games ( or games that should be easier in a way ) against small clubs. Something needs to be adjusted. Regardless of who we play...

We have had the problem of being bullied by big bruising forwards and midfielders for a long time it's just that now most opposition teams have cottoned on to our achilees heel.
It doesn't help that Rodgers bought players in his own image - midgets - this also contributes to us being awful at defending set pieces.

Having said that its up to Jürgen to see which ones are up to the fight when the opposition try the bully boy tactics to put us off our natural game. By the summer I reckon quite a few will be regulars on the bench.

I get what bigmick is saying and yes arses need booting, I would like to think Jürgen gave those players exactly what they deserved,
      "The Herr dryer"  treatment,
As for being so radical I'm not sure even Ming the Merciless could be so ruthless,

It would be suicidal to field the same Watford X1 and given our injury woes it certainly doesn't look like we'll be on the right side of a favourable result,

We need to hope the "Herr dryer" will have the desired effect and those chosen will perform to a standard befitting of this club,

Losing is not a option!


YNWA

      "The Herr dryer"  treatment,



YNWA

  Haha love that!

Three very good opportunities  to take maximum points have come and gone in shameful fashion. Time to focus on the f*cking job this time.

If they can't get motivated for an Anfield Christmas clash with the league leaders there is something far wrong. Get with it or f*ck off!

Totally off topic, apologies. Are we on TV at all over Christmas?

Totally off topic, apologies. Are we on TV at all over Christmas?

Saturday vs Leicester no, Wed at Sunderland we are live at 7:45, Saturday 02/16 we are televised at West Ham in early 12:45 kick off.

Saturday vs Leicester no, Wed at Sunderland we are live at 7:45, Saturday 02/16 we are televised at West Ham in early 12:45 kick off.

We're on Setanta vs Leicester for anybody that has it.

Totally off topic, apologies. Are we on TV at all over Christmas?

It's live down in Aussie Land.

Play last man back? Works for my 5 a side team.

Rush keeper, might have a better chance then like.

Rush keeper, might have a better chance then like.

?

?

If he can count then he's already an upgrade 😉

Well  Mick  ..... he didn't and we didn't.
Thankfully.

Think he deserves a lit of credit for a brave selection to be honest Skip. Lallana and Firmino can count themselves very lucky to have played, and it was only really Lucas who got the chop. He can have no complaints as he was terrible against Watford, but he was by no means on his own. 

Well  Mick  ..... he didn't and we didn't.
Thankfully.

hmmm fancy a manager with his experience not listening to a ............fill in the blank

hmmm fancy a manager with his experience not listening to a ............fill in the blank

Incredible isn't it? After I typed the topic starter I thought he was nailed on to take my post word for word and completely adopt my starting eleven. I absolutely couldn't believe it when didn't actually change 10 players out of the starting 11. It's not a word I've used before but here it fits perfectly, crestfallen I was. Barely slept a wink on Saturday night thinking about it.