Liverpool owners 'underestimated how poor squad was' when buying club in 2010...

Liverpool owners 'underestimated how poor squad was' when buying club in 2010... with Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina slammed as 'past their prime'

 


The quality of Liverpool's squad was 'poor' when FSG took over in 2010.
Owners Fenway Sports Group forced into giving evidence in legal dispute.
Mill Financial opened legal proceedings against RBS and George Gillett.
Gillett and former co-owner Tom Hicks failed to repay £280million loan.
Edward Weiss, FSG's former general counsel, was in attendance at hearing
Weiss singled out Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina as 'past their prime'.

 

Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group 'underestimated how poor' the quality of the squad was when taking over in 2010 ‒ with Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina slammed as 'beyond their prime'.
A long-running legal dispute between Mill Financial, the Royal Bank of Scotland and the club's former co-owner George Gillett has forced FSG into giving evidence.

Legal proceedings against RBS and Gillett were opened by American firm Mill Financial after the former co-owner and business partner Tom Hicks were unable to repay a £280million loan when FSG replaced them as owners in 2010.
   
Liverpool owner John W Henry (left) and chairman Tom Werner (right) watch a training session this season
   
Fenway Sports Group 'underestimated how poor' the quality of squad was when taking over the club in 2010
   
According to Edward Weiss, FSG's former general counsel, the quality of the squad was 'poor' in 2010
Current Reds owner John W Henry did not attend but Edward Weiss, FSG's former general counsel, was in attendance and he revealed the team's lack of quality on the pitch at the time of the takeover.


Speaking at the hearing in New York, Weiss said: 'Like trying to catch a knife falling off the table, you're not sure where before it's hit the ground you've caught it.

'You know, I think we underestimated how poor the playing quality of the squad was, and frankly, we underestimated how difficult it was going to be to stabilise the asset.


'We were overconfident in assuming that many of the things that we had done in Boston at Fenway would translate naturally to the Premier League and they just didn't all translate.'
At the time of their takeover, Liverpool had the likes of Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and Dirk Kuyt all starring for the Premier League giants.

However, Weiss ‒ who revealed FSG watched just one Liverpool match before buying the club ‒ also admitted that a number of their leading names were all beyond their prime and singled out Spanish pair Torres and Reina for criticism.
   
Weiss singled out criticism for former Liverpool striker Fernando Torres (pictured in September 2010)
   
Ex-goalkeeper Pepe Reina, who made a calamitous error in 1-1 draw with Arsenal in 2010, was also criticised
   
Javier Mascherano, who has gone on to star for Spanish giants Barcelona, was also discussed by Weiss
LIVERPOOL'S SQUAD FOR 2010-11 SEASON WHEN FSG BOUGHT THE CLUB

Senior squad

Brad Jones
Glen Johnson
Daniel Agger
Fabio Aurelio
Steven Gerrard
Fernando Torres
Joe Cole
Milan Jovanovic
Sotiris Kyrgiakos
Maxi Rodriguez
Dirk Kuyt
Lucas Leiva
Jamie Carragher
Pepe Reina
Jay Spearing
Stephen Darby
Martin Skrtel
Christian Poulsen
Ryan Babel
Paul Konchesky
Raul Meireles


'We obviously did some due diligence on the playing squad during this process before we closed on the transaction in the middle of October of 2010,' he added.
'What we came to know was that the playing squad was poor.
'While we had a few top players like Steven Gerrard, other players like Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina were probably beyond their primes, and Javier Mascherano was not even on the team.'
   



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F***ing hell what a sad indictment of their early time here - only saw one game - were overconfident that the approach they'd took in a sport barely 4 countries play in the world could work in the planets most popular sport - and someone somewhere who we will probably NEVER hear about or know did 'due diligence' on the squad before they took over!!

That's like me going over to their gaff and passing my eye over their rounders players.

Only saw one game and then felt they had enough knowledge to declare Torres and Reina past their best, whilst, I assume, they thought Paul Konchesky looked like a trier.

Jesus wept.

If they think the squad was bad in 2010 just wait until they decided to spend millions on Balotelli's, Luis Albertos, Fabio Borinis and Iago Aspas's of the world.

Only saw one game and then felt they had enough knowledge to declare Torres and Reina past their best, whilst, I assume, they thought Paul Konchesky looked like a trier.

Jesus wept.

If they think the squad was bad in 2010 just wait until they decided to spend millions on Balotelli's, Luis Albertos, Fabio Borinis and Iago Aspas's of the world.

To be fair JD....they nailed Torres, he was never the same after the injury.

F**k me that's incredible, they only watched us once before deciding to buy us,!
I wonder how many times DIC had us watched or whoever else were interested at that time,  and would that not come under the FA's fit & proper owners ruling (not sure I've worded that correctly?) in that they(buyers) knew very little about their investment,
I'm assuming RBS had a say in the preceedings after all it was them that was owed the money, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Perhaps Martin Boughton decided NESV were appropriate enough irrespective of how little they knew about us?

YNWA

F**k me that's incredible, they only watched us once before deciding to buy us,!
I wonder how many times DIC had us watched or whoever else were interested at that time,  and would that not come under the FA's fit & proper owners ruling (not sure I've worded that correctly?) in that they(buyers) knew very little about their investment,
I'm assuming RBS had a say in the preceedings after all it was them that was owed the money, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Perhaps Martin Boughton decided NESV were appropriate enough irrespective of how little they knew about us?

YNWA

Exactly Billy.

It was such an easy investment to make, £230m for a global name in the richest league in the world with a fan base the size of ours.

They didn't look at the squad they looked at the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s.

I'd take a "past his prime" Reina, Agger, Carra etc over a lot of what we have now and what we have signed since they took over.

And so in response to inheriting a poor squad, they made it even poorer. 

Deluded fuckers, don't think they know what a quality footballer is...

Should have stuck to rounders...

I'd take a "past his prime" Reina, Agger, Carra etc over a lot of what we have now and what we have signed since they took over.

One game for Due Diligence FFS !

That was on par with Moores and Parry accepting a phone call from Rothschilds saying Hansel and Gretel were good to go.
That was their Due Dil on the buyers.

DIC were entrenched for months doing their DD with the lovely Amanda Stavely doing her stuff with Dubai .
Their bid in 2008 was for £400 million.
Moores and Parry were in a hurry.

Like Kenny has said.

If they thought the squad was poor .......... bullshit methinks to justify their low bid to RBS   ...... then stand that squad  up to today's heap of crap.
All they needed to do was meet the debt and pay £15mill on top which was probably fees etc.
They did.

Thats business.   Good business and I would prefer who we are now with , than any other purchaser sniffing around then.

And so in response to inheriting a poor squad, they made it even poorer. 

Exactamundo  5.

In 2010

Brad Jones - sh*t
Glen Johnson - Was still going alright
Daniel Agger - Injury prone but amazing on his day
Fabio Aurelio - See above
Steven Gerrard - World class
Fernando Torres - World class
Joe Cole - Meh
Milan Jovanovic - Utter utter sh*te
Sotiris Kyrgiakos - Good in the air, not elite
Maxi Rodriguez - Big game player, nothing special othewise
Dirk Kuyt - Vastly underrated, was still good
Lucas Leiva - Fantastic
Jamie Carragher - Still solid
Pepe Reina - Do this day would be the best keeper in the squad 6 years later, not over the hill in 2010
Jay Spearing - Was always a nothing player
Stephen Darby - Dud
Martin Skrtel - Solid defender
Christian Poulsen - I'm angry I've been reminded about him he was that bad
Ryan Babel - Never lived up to his potential
Paul Konchesky - sh*te
Raul Meireles - Decent

sh*t players in bold. Take what you want from it.

To be honest I don't care what they say in court so long as it makes Hicks and or Gillet suffer.

FSG seem to be very astute at underestimating, they underestimated how poor our status was after Herpes & Gonorrhoea fu**ed things up, and more recently the underestimated their customers, sorry fans when they decided to rob us in ticket prices,

Their estimation of us was let's say underestimated   


YNWA

In 2010

Fernando Torres - World class

1st match I ever watched was the 2010 derby a few days after they took over....I am not recalling Fernando Torres being world class from that time on, or at Chelsea or at Athletico

Did I miss something....

Probably came to the right conclusion the wrong way and things haven't got better since.

Hopefully Jürgen can be the figurehead for change.

I guess FSG are down playing the value of players and club knowing how f**king cheap they got us and would not like to give any indication of it...

Players were Sh*te, club was sh*te & maybe hindsight we should never have bought the club... Blah blah blah..

I guess FSG are down playing the value of players and club knowing how f**king cheap they got us and would not like to give any indication of it...

Players were Sh*te, club was sh*te & maybe hindsight we should never have bought the club... Blah blah blah..

That's my kind of take on it.

Torres may have been sh*te but we got £50million for him.

Torres may have been sh*te but we got £50million for him.

Yeah but to Chelsea, and look how he did there!

I still laugh at them chavvy bas**rds now!

Yeah but to Chelsea, and look how he did there!

I still laugh at them chavvy bas**rds now!

FSG sold Torres within 3 months of taking over. Would we feel any better at losing Torres if he had gone on to be an outstanding player for Chelsea? Does it make you feel better that we sold Suarez and he is proving just how good he is at Barca?

They got £50 million for Torres, crying now that he wasn't world class is pathetic. They got a world class fee for him.

And so in response to inheriting a poor squad, they made it even poorer. 

Nah, judge that when they leave. When they came in they had an average old squad that needed years of revitalising. They are transforming it into something better.

Nah, judge that when they leave. When they came in they had an average old squad that needed years of revitalising. They are transforming it into something better.

Almost 6 years now mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_pfnLybgCY

I cannot believe that FSG underestimated how poor the squad was when they bought (stole ) the club. Lets face if the squad had been first class they would of had to pay a lot more than the got it for.FSG knew they were on a cash cow the minute Twit and tw*t were in financial trouble.

1st match I ever watched was the 2010 derby a few days after they took over....I am not recalling Fernando Torres being world class from that time on, or at Chelsea or at Athletico

Did I miss something....

May be getting my timeline wrong just. Did FSG buy the club before or after 10/11 season.

In 09/10 he was the best striker in the league and then in 10/11 he was very injury prone.

1st match I ever watched was the 2010 derby a few days after they took over....I am not recalling Fernando Torres being world class from that time on, or at Chelsea or at Athletico

Did I miss something....

TBF, Torres and Reina were past their prime, well more specifically in Reina's case he had his head turned after his father claimed he was in talks to secure a move to Barca with an agreement already in place. Valdez didn't move and Reina was caught with his knickers round his ankles, coincided with this, his form certainly slumped. But no, re. Torres you missed nothing there, but prior to that you did.

Exactly Billy.

It was such an easy investment to make, £230m for a global name in the richest league in the world with a fan base the size of ours.

They didn't look at the squad they looked at the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s.

Absolutely spot on Luke. The truth is they didn't give a F**k about the actual team... not then and not now.

It'll be six F***ing years (come October) with the carpetbaggers at the helm. The return? One league cup.

Remember that "clear vision" which was "at work"? Or that: "After almost two years at Anfield, we [FSG] are close to having the system we need in place" - [John W Henry - 3 Sep 2012]?

What the F**k happened to that? 

If they think that, after 6 years, anyone (other than arse sucking retards) will be still F***ing daft enough to buy the lies... well.   

These comanches are the football equivalent of Donald F***ing Trump... full of sh*te and hyperbole. 

Well, in fairness to them this has come out in an ongoing court-case so I read, so it would not surprise me in the slightest if they're being a bit liberal with the truth.

Just a thought.

I had no doubt at the time it was an opportunistic business opportunity that they couldn't turn down at the price.

Their subsequent chopping and changing, tearing up one vision and starting the next plan shows me that they didn't come in with an overriding way to make us successful

Just that the deal was too good to turn down

They have to force themselves to say that, otherwise it would be difficult for them to explain how they got this club so cheap and later sold the "past the prime" players and made good profit for it. To say otherwise would be shooting themselves in the foot.

They have to force themselves to say that, otherwise it would be difficult for them to explain how they got this club so cheap and later sold the "past the prime" players and made good profit for it. To say otherwise would be shooting themselves in the foot.

My thinking too.

In fact what has been said really shouldn't rub Reds up the wrong way, as far as I can see. For me, Mill Financial can carry on taking payments off of Gillete for a 125,000 a month. It's music to my ears really.

And if that means FSG giving evidence that insinuates the state of this club was in dire straights, I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.

I think the OP has made a mountain out of a molehill while endeavoring to keep the pitch forks of the masses sharpened.

My thinking too.

In fact what has been said really shouldn't rub Reds up the wrong way, as far as I can see. For me, Mill Financial can carry on taking payments off of Gillete for a 125,000 a month. It's music to my ears really.

And if that means FSG giving evidence that insinuates the state of this club was in dire straights, I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.

I think the OP has made a mountain out of a molehill while endeavoring to keep the pitch forks of the masses sharpened.

I really don't think they needed to spend the whole of the last 6 years proving we weren't worth much more than what they paid for us though mate

They have to force themselves to say that, otherwise it would be difficult for them to explain how they got this club so cheap and later sold the "past the prime" players and made good profit for it. To say otherwise would be shooting themselves in the foot.

Fair point rk63 but...

I keep coming back to this 'logic': if you "know" it's sh*te [designed "to explain"...], if he/she "knows" it's sh*te and (let's be honest) and if the slowest of the slow "know" it's sh*te: what makes you think that it won't dawn on all the lawyers present that it's sh*te?

Then again maybe they're all stupid and won't see what we see or question it; eh? 

Let's be honest - it is exactly what it is - more bullshit from the carpetbaggers.

I really don't think they needed to spend the whole of the last 6 years proving we weren't worth much more than what they paid for us though mate

 

Because it has to be proven to be sh*te in a court of law. 

Working on the assumption (big leap, I know) that their solicitors might just be as savvy as you or me and considering you twigged right away: it might be safe to say that they'll twig too.

Failing that all they have to do is scan this forum for a heads-up. Maybe you should delete your posts sharpish; we wouldn't want to be helping thon c**t. 

Fair point rk63 but...

I keep coming back to this 'logic': if you "know" it's sh*te [designed "to explain"...], if he/she "knows" it's sh*te and (let's be honest) and if the slowest of the slow "know" it's sh*te: what makes you think that it won't dawn on all the lawyers present that it's sh*te?

Then again maybe they're all stupid and won't see what we see or question it; eh? 

Let's be honest - it is exactly what it is - more bullshit from the carpetbaggers.

Hmmm ... can't turn back the clock

Hmmm ... can't turn back the clock

Er... I'm not sure what that means but... okay? 

May be getting my timeline wrong just. Did FSG buy the club before or after 10/11 season.

In 09/10 he was the best striker in the league and then in 10/11 he was very injury prone.

First game I watched was sometime in like October 2010 where we were at the bitters; Next thing I remember was Torres asking to transfer.

In my short LFC life my feelings on Fernando was see ya..wouldn't want to be ya.

First game I watched was sometime in like October 2010 where we were at the bitters; Next thing I remember was Torres asking to transfer.

In my short LFC life my feelings on Fernando was see ya..wouldn't want to be ya.

None of us will know what was going in his head or how he was being advised however it's fairly well known that he was a player who needed an arm round the shoulder, needed that love

When Kenny came in during Jan '11 Torres scored something like 3 in 3.. Certainly two at Wolves ( I think one in a defeat at Blackpool) but his head was turned and he wanted to go.. He hated Woy.. And never really gave Kenny a chance

It's hard to know if had he stayed and felt wanted that he couldn't have got to near his previous level ( even during the previous October? He got a couple of worldies under Hodgson against Chelsea ) but he went there ( regretted it for me) struggled and never felt that love that was all important to him

He is known to have said after Gerrards match a couple of years  back that not getting booed and having his song chanted at Anfield again allowed him to move on as he couldn't before. Getting booed there hurt him.

It's impossible to say with great certainty that he could t have stayed at a very good level had he never left here

In my short LFC life my feelings on Fernando was see ya..wouldn't want to be ya.

Father forgive him he knowns not what he is saying!

I loved Torres while he was here, one of my favourite players ever, and while I was devastated like most when he left, I have never felt the hate that others have for him.

Loved Torres, loved the bounce, loved the goals and the celebrations...in a way that even Suarez never got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYKAaef5Zs

Father forgive him he knowns not what he is saying!

I loved Torres while he was here, one of my favourite players ever, and while I was devastated like most when he left, I have never felt the hate that others have for him.

Loved Torres, loved the bounce, loved the goals and the celebrations...in a way that even Suarez never got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYKAaef5Zs

Yeah he was truly lethal, I honestly couldn't believe the decline at Chelsea the most dramatic collapse in form since Shevchenko

Just watching that really does show what a bloody good team we had back then, miss so many of those players, Voronin especially

Yeah he was truly lethal, I honestly couldn't believe the decline at Chelsea the most dramatic collapse in form since Shevchenko

Just watching that really does show what a bloody good team we had back then, miss so many of those players, Voronin especially

Me too and Voronin saved the day one f**king hot day in Toulouse when the French ripped my family and I off for ticket prices.
I wont tell you what we paid.
Its embarassing.

Remember Rafa and Torres down by the touchline.
Nando had class  .

Would be great to see a movie of that period - Eddie Redmayne as Torres. Patrick Stewart as Rafa. Jim Broadbent as the Hodge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ZSuAU03Bs

The Monster ...

I suppose that reads better than
"Liverpool owners offloaded all the highest earners and then wondered how it went wrong."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ZSuAU03Bs

The Monster ...

His pace was unreal.

How quick did Gerrard control the ball and thread the ball through to Torres in the movie clip show first clip,  absolutely world class. What a shame we couldn't have had Luis and Fernando playing together.

How quick did Gerrard control the ball and thread the ball through to Torres in the movie clip show first clip,  absolutely world class. What a shame we couldn't have had Luis and Fernando playing together.

That of course was the original intention.

None of us will know what was going in his head or how he was being advised however it's fairly well known that he was a player who needed an arm round the shoulder, needed that love

When Kenny came in during Jan '11 Torres scored something like 3 in 3.. Certainly two at Wolves ( I think one in a defeat at Blackpool) but his head was turned and he wanted to go.. He hated Woy.. And never really gave Kenny a chance

It's hard to know if had he stayed and felt wanted that he couldn't have got to near his previous level ( even during the previous October? He got a couple of worldies under Hodgson against Chelsea ) but he went there ( regretted it for me) struggled and never felt that love that was all important to him

He is known to have said after Gerrards match a couple of years  back that not getting booed and having his song chanted at Anfield again allowed him to move on as he couldn't before. Getting booed there hurt him.

Should have thought of that when he handed in his transfer request.

He was past his best when he left here, due to his persistent injuries. He was the Spanish Sturridge by then really. Great on the pitch when he was actually on it, not much use though when he was in the treatment room, which was far more often, and his career dropped like a stone after he left.

Speaking of which, David Ngog scored that day. FSG probably thought he was going to be world class, even though he was never even Liverpool class. God knows where he is now.

And so in response to inheriting a poor squad, they made it even poorer. 

This is way over the top...the squad we have now is definitely better than what they inherited and after getting Klopp, I am sure they have taken a major step towardsa making it a million times better.

This is way over the top...the squad we have now is definitely better than what they inherited and after getting Klopp, I am sure they have taken a major step towardsa making it a million times better.

What?.... Not sure if serious .,,,,.

I suppose that reads better than
"Liverpool owners offloaded all the highest earners and then wondered how it went wrong."

Almost 6 years now mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_pfnLybgCY

but they have overseen tremendous change that has the squad in the best position its been since needing to wipe the old players out and bring a new nucleus in.

most posts in this thread seem to be reading this very, very negatively. implying that it was wrong for FSG to make an assessment on Reina and Torres instantly - but they were right so i don't understand why people are pretending this was a bad call. Reina and Torres WERE past their prime when FSG arrived. Carragher, Gerrard, Agger, Johnson all were too. that's the tone of this piece - they simply thought our squad, our team, our club was perhaps still capable of 2007, 2009 feats but didn't have the deeper knowledge to realise those years were past this team and that nucleus.

i don't really understand the "6 years" talk. 6 years ago our squad was crap and ageing... now we are bursting with young talent and growing our own world class talents. i don't see how they have set us back. i have no idea how people can type "they inherited a poor squad and made it poorer" without admitting they're trolling. no owners in the world would have "come in and replaced mascherano, torres, alonso" like you see some people moaning about. you CAN'T "replace" those guys and it's not FSG's job to "replace" them, we have to build a new dynasty and stop thinking back to the past all the time. i don't think we have an ounce of patience in our collective LFC supporters DNA. i see the people FSG have hired doing a bang up job trying to give us a great new squad with age on their side. rodgers and comolli and whoever else gave us some good players - klopp will give us some good players - and again we will have a great squad. like we built over years and years last time. remember that? it didn't just happen out of nowhere so why do people moan and pretend it can somehow magically just click in one transfer window? it doesn't even click in 5 transfer windows.

i used to read so much wisdom and perspective on this forum, you people taught me how it all started with the 2001 UEFA cup, building the right squad and team to hit the Champions League later that decade. so i see this as a long term thing, why can't we enjoy watching the team get built like you did 10, 15 years ago... or maybe this was always the way, moaning about everything until it clicked and all of a sudden that day is absolute folklore??

but they have overseen tremendous change that has the squad in the best position its been since needing to wipe the old players out and bring a new nucleus in.

most posts in this thread seem to be reading this very, very negatively. implying that it was wrong for FSG to make an assessment on Reina and Torres instantly - but they were right so i don't understand why people are pretending this was a bad call. Reina and Torres WERE past their prime when FSG arrived. Carragher, Gerrard, Agger, Johnson all were too. that's the tone of this piece - they simply thought our squad, our team, our club was perhaps still capable of 2007, 2009 feats but didn't have the deeper knowledge to realise those years were past this team and that nucleus.

i don't really understand the "6 years" talk. 6 years ago our squad was crap and ageing... now we are bursting with young talent and growing our own world class talents. i don't see how they have set us back. i have no idea how people can type "they inherited a poor squad and made it poorer" without admitting they're trolling. no owners in the world would have "come in and replaced mascherano, torres, alonso" like you see some people moaning about. you CAN'T "replace" those guys and it's not FSG's job to "replace" them, we have to build a new dynasty and stop thinking back to the past all the time. i don't think we have an ounce of patience in our collective LFC supporters DNA. i see the people FSG have hired doing a bang up job trying to give us a great new squad with age on their side. rodgers and comolli and whoever else gave us some good players - klopp will give us some good players - and again we will have a great squad. like we built over years and years last time. remember that? it didn't just happen out of nowhere so why do people moan and pretend it can somehow magically just click in one transfer window? it doesn't even click in 5 transfer windows.

i used to read so much wisdom and perspective on this forum, you people taught me how it all started with the 2001 UEFA cup, building the right squad and team to hit the Champions League later that decade. so i see this as a long term thing, why can't we enjoy watching the team get built like you did 10, 15 years ago... or maybe this was always the way, moaning about everything until it clicked and all of a sudden that day is absolute folklore??

I am not sure what you have been smoking mate, but could I have some.

The squad we have after 6 years of their "bang up job of rebuilding" is 7th in the league on 44 points after 28 games while Leicester City sprinted past us as if we were stood still. Which given the fact that we have won one trophy in their time here, qualified for the CL once during their time here, have dropped from the top rated club in Europe to 55th behind Trabzonspor, Genk, Alkmaar and FC Metalist Kharkiv IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE.

Apart from our Suarez season we have never finished higher than 6th under FSG, have seen our best players leave and the money wasted on high priced gambles and "prospects".

As FSG have now admitted :-

'We were overconfident in assuming that many of the things that we had done in Boston at Fenway would translate naturally to the Premier League and they just didn't all translate.'

So we are now on our 4th manager under FSG and we have progressed from 6th in their first season in charge to 6th in their last while we stumble from transfer window to transfer window selling our best players and buying whoever the BIG CLUBS will let us.

I have supported Liverpool for 50 years... football did not start in 2001, others on this site have supported Liverpool since the 1950's! You do not win things by selling your best players if you can't or won't replace them with better.

We now have a world class manager and a second class squad, when we have a world class manager and a world class squad we may again be the top team in Europe and perhaps even win the F***ing league again.The sad fact is that most of our players weren't even F***ing born the last time we won the league. 

Until then we just live in hope and accept that CL is our only real priority, that money is the name of the game not titles and trophies and that if any of our players do become stars that we can't keep them as they want what we can't give them... success.

Time for a smoke



 


 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ZSuAU03Bs

The Monster ...

Christ I've got the tissues out here...

I loved Fernando, gutted when he left. More gutted than when Luis left to be honest. Mainly because I knew Suarez would go at some point, he was so much better than the rest of that team, look at him now smashing them in at the biggest club in the world. Fernando belonged at Liverpool, he felt like one of us. Luis always felt like a loan player to me, destined to play at an elite level.

but they have overseen tremendous change that has the squad in the best position its been since needing to wipe the old players out and bring a new nucleus in.

most posts in this thread seem to be reading this very, very negatively. implying that it was wrong for FSG to make an assessment on Reina and Torres instantly - but they were right so i don't understand why people are pretending this was a bad call. Reina and Torres WERE past their prime when FSG arrived. Carragher, Gerrard, Agger, Johnson all were too. that's the tone of this piece - they simply thought our squad, our team, our club was perhaps still capable of 2007, 2009 feats but didn't have the deeper knowledge to realise those years were past this team and that nucleus.

i don't really understand the "6 years" talk. 6 years ago our squad was crap and ageing... now we are bursting with young talent and growing our own world class talents. i don't see how they have set us back. i have no idea how people can type "they inherited a poor squad and made it poorer" without admitting they're trolling. no owners in the world would have "come in and replaced mascherano, torres, alonso" like you see some people moaning about. you CAN'T "replace" those guys and it's not FSG's job to "replace" them, we have to build a new dynasty and stop thinking back to the past all the time. i don't think we have an ounce of patience in our collective LFC supporters DNA. i see the people FSG have hired doing a bang up job trying to give us a great new squad with age on their side. rodgers and comolli and whoever else gave us some good players - klopp will give us some good players - and again we will have a great squad. like we built over years and years last time. remember that? it didn't just happen out of nowhere so why do people moan and pretend it can somehow magically just click in one transfer window? it doesn't even click in 5 transfer windows.

i used to read so much wisdom and perspective on this forum, you people taught me how it all started with the 2001 UEFA cup, building the right squad and team to hit the Champions League later that decade. so i see this as a long term thing, why can't we enjoy watching the team get built like you did 10, 15 years ago... or maybe this was always the way, moaning about everything until it clicked and all of a sudden that day is absolute folklore??

Are you sure its not you who is trolling?

I was always on the fence with FSG and didn't think they were half as bad as what people made out, to be honest I still don't, but we haven't progressed in any way since they've been here. If anything, we've gone backwards. As stated we have won one trophy in their six years and qualified for the champions league once. That is piss poor.

I disagree with you that some of our players were past their prime when FSG took over but whether that's true or not those type of players were never replaced anyway. Of course it is FSG's job to replace them. The players you mentioned were all leaders on high salaries. At the height of their game they were all world class players.  How many players in our squad right now would you label as a leader or world class?

FSG started off pretty well by sacking Roy but then showed an incredible amount of disrespect to one of this clubs biggest legends in Kenny. My personal feeling was that it was the right decision to bring in another manager but many of our support didn't. Despite being in agreement that we needed a new manager I was appalled at how they treated KK.

They showed a lack of ambition by signing Rodgers. Again, I've made my thoughts clear on Brendan on this forum and I like the man a lot, but at the end of the day he was the manager of Swansea and hadn't achieved anything in the game. Considering the size of this club, its rich history and the expectations our supporters demand that was a shocking appointment when you think about it.

Their lack of ambition continued under Brendan when we consistently signed 'big fish in a small pond' type players and massively overspent on them. Those players we signed were all flavour of the month at their clubs (that would all be lower than us in the league too - Newcastle, Southampton, Swansea, Sunderland, Villa and so on). Those players were usually very young too, under the age of 25. In fact, I think I've seen somewhere that the eldest player we've signed under FSG is Lallana at 26 yrs.

In the meantime we've seen players like Suarez, Torres, Sterling, Gerrard, Carragher, Reina leave the club. Our whole spine. Our whole experience. Our whole quality. Our leaders.

The good thing is that FSG have finally showed a bit of ambition and landed Klopp. Hopefully they will back him and realise the strategy of buying the best players from very average teams doesn't work. We need quality, experience and leaders.

If they continue with this strategy then I'm still not as worried because I trust Klopp will spend the money a lot more wisely than what Brendan did. I'm pretty sure he will find a couple of gems for us that we will buy for peanuts and they will go on to be world class stars.

The point of my post is that FSG have showed no ambition since being here and I don't think that can be disputed. Maybe they will start to show it now, but the last six years have been a waste or a gamble that certainly didn't pay off for them, or more importantly, us.

The owner's main job is to finance the club and hire the manager.

Since they've been here they have provided more finances than any other non CL-club and we have upgraded the manager with each appointment.

We last won the league around the same time as Everton did - the problems go way back before FSG however under their stewardship the last manager missed the league by a whisker.

Anyone who thinks it's easy doesn't understand the scale of the problem.

The owner's main job is to finance the club and hire the manager.

Since they've been here they have provided more finances than any other non CL-club and we have upgraded the manager with each appointment.

We last won the league around the same time as Everton did - the problems go way back before FSG however under their stewardship the last manager missed the league by a whisker.

Anyone who thinks it's easy doesn't understand the scale of the problem.

Granted

However anyone who thinks that just providing money is the answer is naive, the policies they have put in place during their time have hindered us as well

The constant ripping up and starting again negates the overall spending

They aren't bad owners at all, but they think they are far cleverer than they are

Granted

However anyone who thinks that just providing money is the answer is naive, the policies they have put in place during their time have hindered us as well

The constant ripping up and starting again negates the overall spending

They aren't bad owners at all, but they think they are far cleverer than they are

Which manager do you think they should have persisted with?

Which manager do you think they should have persisted with?

None of them. Hodgson should've gone earlier, if anything, but I can understand why they waited having just taken over. King Kenny went at the right time. Did a magnificent job at steadying the ship, but the second half of his second season was appalling. Brendan left at the right time too. I was a big fan of his, but too many supporters had turned and it looked like he didn't trust his players. He'd also gone away from any sort of coherent plan of how we'd play going forward and had turned into someone who'd change tactics every match. He was also a victim of circumstance because if Klopp and Ancelotti hadn't been available at the time, he'd probably have been given more time. Delivered us one of the most fun seasons in our recent history and had us playing a brilliant style of football.

Which manager do you think they should have persisted with?

I wasn't really meaning managers specifically mate, more the chopping and changing of transfer blueprints.

But now you mention the managers it comes into it does it not?

If as you rightly say we can't outspend the teams above us and we need to be smarter then the 4 managers in 5-6 years, paying off their contracts and that of their staff, buying out In Rodgers case and paying the compensation to Swansea for him and his staff. The turnover of the squad for each of those managers ideas.. The pay offs of other staff brought in to match that specific transfer model that was the smartest at that current time like a DOF in Comolli..

It's a waste of the funds we have.

Buying for the future on gambles when we aren't sorted in the present, the waste of funds on the types like Alberto and Illori that could have been to improve the here and now.

There has been errors, yes they have provided money but the overriding plan has been changed numerous times in their short ownership that smacks of a lack of ultimate end goal and how the best to get there. They have admitted these  errors themselves.

I just hope for your and my and every other reds sake that at the 4th time of asking manager wise, and god knows how many transfer strategy wise that they have finally got it right

I suppose that reads better than
"Liverpool owners offloaded all the highest earners and then wondered how it went wrong."

Yeah... the truth doesn't come easy to this lot.

But, thanks to s@int here it is anyhow...

I am not sure what you have been smoking mate, but could I have some.

The squad we have after 6 years of their "bang up job of rebuilding" is 7th in the league on 44 points after 28 games while Leicester City sprinted past us as if we were stood still. Which given the fact that we have won one trophy in their time here, qualified for the CL once during their time here, have dropped from the top rated club in Europe to 55th behind Trabzonspor, Genk, Alkmaar and FC Metalist Kharkiv IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE.

Apart from our Suarez season we have never finished higher than 6th under FSG, have seen our best players leave and the money wasted on high priced gambles and "prospects".

As FSG have now admitted :-

So we are now on our 4th manager under FSG and we have progressed from 6th in their first season in charge to 6th in their last while we stumble from transfer window to transfer window selling our best players and buying whoever the BIG CLUBS will let us.

I have supported Liverpool for 50 years... football did not start in 2001, others on this site have supported Liverpool since the 1950's! You do not win things by selling your best players if you can't or won't replace them with better.

We now have a world class manager and a second class squad, when we have a world class manager and a world class squad we may again be the top team in Europe and perhaps even win the F***ing league again.The sad fact is that most of our players weren't even F***ing born the last time we won the league. 

Until then we just live in hope and accept that CL is our only real priority, that money is the name of the game not titles and trophies and that if any of our players do become stars that we can't keep them as they want what we can't give them... success.

Time for a smoke  

sh*t rolls downhill but the buck always stops at the F***ing top. 

Yeah... the truth doesn't come easy to this lot.

....and ignoring the obvious seems an accepted part of that practice.
Appointing Klopp to all intents and purposes would give the impression that a change in direction was under way; the woeful managerial decisions of the past 5 years by FSG could be negated by an acknowledged winner at the helm.

Being German and well respected by world class players of that country could give our man the edge in any bidding contests that could arise, to say nothing of the possibility of other top players putting pen to paper to play under a respected and highly motivated coach that Jürgen represents.

Amongst all the hypothesis of course the question of finances rules, no matter the esteem any potential signing has for a prospective coach their agent and financial advisers have the final word on the deal.

Nothing at all has changed with regard to JWH&Co and their financial priorities, there is the usual bollox about backing the manager which by now is totally meaningless.

Appointing Klopp gives the owners some respite until next season and is a lot more prudent than buying the players we are crying out for NOW.
Some would call it a master stroke while the comment below does put matters in perspective.     

sh*t rolls downhill but the buck always stops at the F***ing top. 

TBF, Torres and Reina were past their prime, well more specifically in Reina's case he had his head turned after his father claimed he was in talks to secure a move to Barca with an agreement already in place. Valdez didn't move and Reina was caught with his knickers round his ankles, coincided with this, his form certainly slumped. But no, re. Torres you missed nothing there, but prior to that you did.

If I am correct FSG bought LFC on or about the October 6, 2010,


I believe in our squad we had

Pepe Reina Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel, Jamie Carragher, Soirios Kyrgiakos, Fabio Aurelio, Glen Johnson*, Steven Gerrard, Lucas Leiva, Joe Cole*, Maxi Rodriguez, Milan Jovanovic $, Dirk Kuyt, Fernando Torres, Ryan  Babel $,
(But our squad then were beating most top teams in the EPL let along Europe)

NB * Players I did not rate
NB $ Players that proved to be disappointing

They (FSG) were quoted as saying… “'While we had a few top players like Steven Gerrard, other players like Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina were probably beyond their primes, and Javier Mascherano was not even on the team.”

Torres was 27 (out of form yes, but not past his prime of Chelsea would not have spent £50m for him) where as Pepe Reina was 29, hardly beyond their prime

There rest were getting there, so I would have to agree with their analysis as to the teams over all age,
 
But two points if I may

(1) If like FSG: are doing (The whole young with resalable value thing) you end up with one or two models….Man Utd class of 92…. You spend a lot of team honing those you players before they become good and start winning trophies on a regular basis

(2) The Arsenal Models you win the occasional League or FA Cup qualify for Europe regularly with out win it

A mixture is needed, Young and Old, but most of all Quality

FSG cleared our debts but never really gave us a great deal of money to renew the Squad, The Suarez money came mainly from the sale of Ryan Babel (we never really meet the asking price for Suarez before the sale of Babel) and the Torres money wasted on Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam…… That lies firmly at the feet of Kenny Dalglish

I remember warning that supporters should not expect FSG to ride in, clear the debt, and spend shed loads of money, said then that people need to read between the lines of what they were saying….

Maybe this is Jürgen Klopp’s master plan, show them (FSG) how bad this team is to get them to invest…. What was it Herr Klopp said? “I don’t need lots of money”

He will use the little that they give him, get rid of the dead wood, and bring in two to three quality signings a year, players that can do things his way

King Kenny went at the right time. Did a magnificent job at steadying the ship, but the second half of his second season was appalling.

So appalling that we won our first trophy in 6 years, won twice at Anfield South, and beat the neighbours in the league 3-0. Much of the campaign minus Suarez too.

They have "SACKED KENNY DALGLISH" on their record, an absolute no-no. There's no way back after that.