Our current owners and transfer committee

I did. If I hadn't, I wouldn't bother replying.

Obviously not, because I've raised many of the same points myself in the time I've been here.

The fact is that we have been failing for nigh on 30 years, and the reasons are many, and probably more complex than we know, but the simple version is that Moores and Parry fu**ed us up, and we're still playing catchup from their years of mismanagement and being content to rest on their laurels.

When united forged ahead at the start of the prem era, we didn't even attempt to replicate the commercial activities that have brought them so much success.

Only now, 20 years too late are we moving in the right direction, and that has had consequences on the pitch.

Manager after manager has wasted shitloads of money on "the next Zidane", "the next Hansen", etc etc

Since FSG came in, we have lacked managerial stability, which is one more reason for the high turnover of players, but it seems that any recruitment problems are solely down to FSG (according to some) when the reality is that every manager, from KK on has said that they have the final say on any transfers.
So if there's been recruitment fuckups, they've been collective fuckups.

I disagree with your assessment of some of our players, because Matip had a very good first season, Lovren is nowhere near as bad as people like to make out, and Gomez is still a kid, whilst Sakho is extremely underrated and has apparently fallen out with the manager to such an extent that there appears to be no way back for him.

It might have escaped your attention, but we have also just signed a pacy wide man, and the market has a long way to go yet, but the fact that you think Henderson is a worse passer than Can speaks volumes, and is indicative of someone who follows the fad around here for scapegoats.

Or to put it another way, Klopp thinks Henderson is a cracking player, so I think I'll go with his opinion over yours, and also the same regarding Firmino, who is essential to the way we play, which by the way, isn't with "one up top".

In short, we've made some good buys, we've made some bad buys.
The same as every other F***ing club in the world of professional football.

 

Read first paragraph.

F***ing hell. It was a joke.

Then please accept my apologies.

Getting constantly attacked because my opinion is different becomes wearing after a while, and I am genuinely sorry it spilled over onto you.
Plus I couldn't see the emoticon thingy properly, so didn't realise.

I doubt that even you believe some of the things that you post.

Suarez, Carroll, Henderson, Downing, Doni, Adam, Enrique, Coates, Bellamy, Borini, Allen, Assaidi, Sturridge, Coutinho, Ibe, Alberto, Aspas, Toure, Mignolet, Ilori, Sakho, Can, Lambert, Lallana, Markovic, Lovren, Origi, Moreno, Balotelli, Grujic, Firmino, Gomez, Bogdan, Ings, Milner, Clyne, Benteke, Karius, Matip, Mane, Klavan, Wijnaldum, Salah.

You are looking at 43 first team players signed since the current owners took over. Suarez, Sturrdige, Coutinho, Mane have been over and above value for money, Salah looks like he will be a quality addition too.

The one thing that sticks out is this, that for way too long, the team has prioritized potential over going for players that were already playing at top level, and at times making decisions that really stagger the mind like chasing Sanchez to replace Suarez, yet going for Balotelli, and then Benteke when all these players are absolutely nothing alike. In that one position alone, we have seen Suarez, Carroll, Borini, Balotelli, Benteke, Firmino, Ings, Origi, Sturridge, Lambert all signed, and Aspas is also a striker. What is the vision? And you now add Solanke. Last time, the fee for Ings was set at £6.5M plus £1.5M in add ons, and Solanke is coming to a team that already has Firmino, Ings, Origi and Sturridge, in an outfit that plays one striker up top.

Ilori, Sakho, Coates, Klavan, Lovren, Matip, Joe Gomez all brought in to play CB and the team is still looking for another CB. I honestly cannot say that there is a single exceptional CB at the club which is why you could see the lengths to which the club went trying to get Van Dijk (although being careless about it).

I honestly thought that the team needed another pacy wide forward who could get goals because with Mane out the team really struggled. A midfielder who could break the lines with his passing was also important because in the latter part of the season teams simply sat back and cancelled out the press. It was something that was going to add to the attack another dimension or two because Emre Can is the only player in that midfield outside Coutinho who has some ambitious passing.

So how did we get here? This team got here because it got some success with Suarez, and then struck gold with Coutinho and Sturridge and thought that that was something that could be easily replicated i.e. getting some young undervalued players that could become special. I don't think that anyone would be against that, but for so long, it was what seemed to be the focus when it came to recruitment.

The people that you seem to have a problem with, and the fact that they seem to believe what it is they are reading in the media are fans that are concerned with the where the team may be at, especially compared to what investments the other teams in the league are making.

There is concern that as time continues to pass, you will run into a familiar problem where teams that would ideally sell no longer wish to do so because they would not have enough time to go out there and get a replacement. As we speak, City have already landed a very good attacker and a goalkeeper that they think will sort out their issues in that position. Manchester United have moved to another option early enough in the window. Arsenal who were looking at signing Mbappe already have Lacazette signed as the world of football waits to hear what his decision will be, and they are chasing Lemar and/or Mahrez.

I will say this, last season was easy for Klopp because he only focused on the league. That cannot be the same this season because he cannot play kids in the Champions League. Looking back at last season, an injury to Coutinho, Mane, Matip were seen as huge setbacks, this window is an opportunity to go on and solve some if not all of those depth issues especially when one considers just how much the team struggled when midweek games kicked in.

The teams that finished ahead will get better, the exception maybe being Spurs who now have to build a stadium. Two teams that finished behind are also going to get better, and they for the most part played strong teams in the domestic cups, league and European competition. So it really comes as a surprise that anyone could see some wrong in fans showing concern with where we are at, our history or fumbling transfer windows, and the challenges that lie ahead.

Good post, mate.

It only takes a brief consideration of the history of our transfer dealings under the current owners, and the extent to which we have missed out on proven quality, for one to see the chump's platitude that "it's all histrionics/no club gets their first choice every time" is devoid of any insight whatsoever.

Obviously not, because I've raised many of the same points myself in the time I've been here.

The fact is that we have been failing for nigh on 30 years, and the reasons are many, and probably more complex than we know, but the simple version is that Moores and Parry fu**ed us up, and we're still playing catchup from their years of mismanagement and being content to rest on their laurels.

When united forged ahead at the start of the prem era, we didn't even attempt to replicate the commercial activities that have brought them so much success.

Only now, 20 years too late are we moving in the right direction, and that has had consequences on the pitch.

Manager after manager has wasted shitloads of money on "the next Zidane", "the next Hansen", etc etc

Since FSG came in, we have lacked managerial stability, which is one more reason for the high turnover of players, but it seems that any recruitment problems are solely down to FSG (according to some) when the reality is that every manager, from KK on has said that they have the final say on any transfers.
So if there's been recruitment fuckups, they've been collective fuckups.

I disagree with your assessment of some of our players, because Matip had a very good first season, Lovren is nowhere near as bad as people like to make out, and Gomez is still a kid, whilst Sakho is extremely underrated and has apparently fallen out with the manager to such an extent that there appears to be no way back for him.

It might have escaped your attention, but we have also just signed a pacy wide man, and the market has a long way to go yet, but the fact that you think Henderson is a worse passer than Can speaks volumes, and is indicative of someone who follows the fad around here for scapegoats.

Or to put it another way, Klopp thinks Henderson is a cracking player, so I think I'll go with his opinion over yours, and also the same regarding Firmino, who is essential to the way we play, which by the way, isn't with "one up top".

In short, we've made some good buys, we've made some bad buys.
The same as every other f**king club in the world of professional football.

1) Klopp can think that Henderson is a cracking player, that is his opinion. Rodgers would talk a lot of nonsense about players like Lambert or Joe Allen, Gerrard once did some comparison of Joe Cole and Messi. These men are not gods, if they were, they would not get anything wrong. He may rate him, I don't. That is something that comes from the fact that I have seem him struggle under pressure, seen him struggle to make passes forward, and generally play safe.

Is that to say that everyone else is faultless? No. Coutinho excels in a counter attacking setup, the moment teams sit deep he struggles, Wijnaldum also plays a lot of safe passes, but he attacks space far better than others once opportunities for transition present themselves. He goes missing otherwise. Can is hit and miss, most of the season he struggled, but most would have him over Lucas any day. Now, why is Henderson such a ''good'' passer? He plays the safe pass, as did Allen. It is stat padding without doing much.

That is the beauty of football, that these men held in such high esteem can also get it wrong. Guardiola was humbled last season, Arsene Wenger eventually finished outside the top 4 and went to three at the back which is something unheard of in our lifetime, Antonio Conte was forced to make changes to his formation to stop what was a bad run. Klopp eventually stumbled his way into the top 4 while Mourinho with two superstar signings finished in 6th.

2) People need to stop rewriting history. Moores, Parry, that was ages ago. As a team, you have to go into each season with a plan on how you will tackle the transfer window. I once said elsewhere that three or four quality players each window was a far better bet than the scatter gun approach of buying lots of players and hoping that they come good. Also stated that when you buy a player and they do not pan out, you could sell and maybe even make a profit, but there is no way you are going to regain the lost time.

Time is what has been wasted for years with all these bad investments. You buy a player and he does not pan out, you lose a season, and the very next year, you are still looking to invest in someone that can come in and sort out that position because the player you bought at that time has not delivered.

You buy a goalkeeper on the cheap to replace Mignolet, only to realize that he is no better than Mignolet who you bought to replace Reina only to notice that he is not only error prone too, but a liability with the ball at his feet. But you have to persist with him because you need to improve other areas of the pitch.

You buy Poulsen, Meireles and Shelvey, then decide that Aquilani who was bought to replace Alonso is not good enough. You get rid of the former two and replace with Henderson and Adam, and then replace Adam with Joe Allen. You then buy Luis Alberto and Emre Can in the next two seasons, and then get rid of Alberto, you then buy James Milner to play in midfield only to convert him to left back, and then get Wijnaldum who one would assume would move to the bench along with Henderson/Can if a class midfielder were to come in.

You buy Paul Konchesky, and the replace with Jose Enrique. You then use the likes of Flannagan, Wisdom among others at LB. You settle on Moreno, who you then replace with the guy you got to play in midfield, and are now looking not to buy someone who will start at LB, but someone who will deputize.

This is basically the run around on almost every position out there on the pitch. You buy Sakho to replace Agger, and then buy Lovren who plays the same side as Sakho, and now they are looking to buy someone who will bench both of them.

That is going into a transfer window without a plan, and it is what leads to the massive changes you seem to see every season.
If you saw three or four players who could slot into the starting XI come in, then you would not see the turnover you seem to see, or the lack of quality depth in a lot of areas.

That comes down to planning. The planning, or excessive gambling can be traced all the way to the moneyball-esque strategy without quality scouts. Now who thought that that was a good idea if not the owners? Who thought that not chasing a quality manager when they came in was a good idea?  Was it not the same owners?

People are worried, and rightly so. Without depth, and with the style of play this team envisions to play where you run more than the opposition, then adding quality players is of paramount importance especially with 7 extra games before January.

4) Since that glorious night in Istanbul in the 04/05 season, this club has won the sum total of 1 League cup. The teams that this team looking to compete with i.e. Manchester City, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, how much have they won in that time?

Good post, mate.

It only takes a brief consideration of the history of our transfer dealings under the current owners, and the extent to which we have missed out on proven quality, for one to see the chump's platitude that "it's all histrionics/no club gets their first choice every time" is devoid of any insight whatsoever.

You have to learn from history. I also hope that the people that are supposed to be buying players are not looking to ride the Klopp wave. Brilliant manager, but we only got 4th by a point in a season where he cut so many corners to actually get there.

On your last point, the main issue I think that exists is who they plan to buy once the first option is gone. Remember in 13/14, the team was targeting Mkhitaryan, then Willian only to end up with Sakho. What was weird was Kolo Toure had signed as well as Tiago Ilori. Or going from Sanchez to Balotelli.

1) Klopp can think that Henderson is a cracking player, that is his opinion. Rodgers would talk a lot of nonsense about players like Lambert or Joe Allen, Gerrard once did some comparison of Joe Cole and Messi. These men are not gods, if they were, they would not get anything wrong. He may rate him, I don't. That is something that comes from the fact that I have seem him struggle under pressure, seen him struggle to make passes forward, and generally play safe.

Is that to say that everyone else is faultless? No. Coutinho excels in a counter attacking setup, the moment teams sit deep he struggles, Wijnaldum also plays a lot of safe passes, but he attacks space far better than others once opportunities for transition present themselves. He goes missing otherwise. Can is hit and miss, most of the season he struggled, but most would have him over Lucas any day. Now, why is Henderson such a ''good'' passer? He plays the safe pass, as did Allen. It is stat padding without doing much.

That is the beauty of football, that these men held in such high esteem can also get it wrong. Guardiola was humbled last season, Arsene Wenger eventually finished outside the top 4 and went to three at the back which is something unheard of in our lifetime, Antonio Conte was forced to make changes to his formation to stop what was a bad run. Klopp eventually stumbled his way into the top 4 while Mourinho with two superstar signings finished in 6th.

2) People need to stop rewriting history. Moores, Parry, that was ages ago. As a team, you have to go into each season with a plan on how you will tackle the transfer window. I once said elsewhere that three or four quality players each window was a far better bet than the scatter gun approach of buying lots of players and hoping that they come good. Also stated that when you buy a player and they do not pan out, you could sell and maybe even make a profit, but there is no way you are going to regain the lost time.

Time is what has been wasted for years with all these bad investments. You buy a player and he does not pan out, you lose a season, and the very next year, you are still looking to invest in someone that can come in and sort out that position because the player you bought at that time has not delivered.

You buy a goalkeeper on the cheap to replace Mignolet, only to realize that he is no better than Mignolet who you bought to replace Reina only to notice that he is not only error prone too, but a liability with the ball at his feet. But you have to persist with him because you need to improve other areas of the pitch.

You buy Poulsen, Meireles and Shelvey, then decide that Aquilani who was bought to replace Alonso is not good enough. You get rid of the former two and replace with Henderson and Adam, and then replace Adam with Joe Allen. You then buy Luis Alberto and Emre Can in the next two seasons, and then get rid of Alberto, you then buy James Milner to play in midfield only to convert him to left back, and then get Wijnaldum who one would assume would move to the bench along with Henderson/Can if a class midfielder were to come in.

You buy Paul Konchesky, and the replace with Jose Enrique. You then use the likes of Flannagan, Wisdom among others at LB. You settle on Moreno, who you then replace with the guy you got to play in midfield, and are now looking not to buy someone who will start at LB, but someone who will deputize.

This is basically the run around on almost every position out there on the pitch. You buy Sakho to replace Agger, and then buy Lovren who plays the same side as Sakho, and now they are looking to buy someone who will bench both of them.

That is going into a transfer window without a plan, and it is what leads to the massive changes you seem to see every season.
If you saw three or four players who could slot into the starting XI come in, then you would not see the turnover you seem to see, or the lack of quality depth in a lot of areas.

That comes down to planning. The planning, or excessive gambling can be traced all the way to the moneyball-esque strategy without quality scouts. Now who thought that that was a good idea if not the owners? Who thought that not chasing a quality manager when they came in was a good idea?  Was it not the same owners?

People are worried, and rightly so. Without depth, and with the style of play this team envisions to play where you run more than the opposition, then adding quality players is of paramount importance especially with 7 extra games before January.

4) Since that glorious night in Istanbul in the 04/05 season, this club has won the sum total of 1 League cup. The teams that this team looking to compete with i.e. Manchester City, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, how much have they won in that time?

1) Yes managers can get it wrong, but guess what? KK, Rodgers, Klopp and various England managers all rate Henderson highly, so I know where my trust goes on that one, as well as the evidence I see with my own eyes, and 50 years of watching football.
The fact that you infer your opinion is right when all these men in top flight jobs have got it wrong is a bit much.
Actually, it's more than a bit much, it appears very arrogant, unless you'd like to rephrase it.
Henderson is not a "safe passer", he is a distributor; he sets the tempo for the whole team, and triggers the press, rarely missing a pass. If you think otherwise, then I can only think you haven't really seen much of him.
Your idea of "safe passing" seems to be a continuation of the idea that any pass is a safe pass unless someone hits it 50 or 60 yards and puts it on a sixpence (but I've seen Henderson do that plenty of times as well).
In a system that values possession, the key is rotation, of both the ball and players, keeping things moving, drawing opponents out and recycling the ball when resetting.
This is where Henderson is so valuable, and that's before I even mention his physical attributes and his aggression.

2) No one is trying to "re-write history". Like it or not, our malaise started nearly 30 years ago, so to blame one lot of owners is nonsense.
Commercial activities became extremely important when sky came in, and we still haven't caught up.
We've been buying players that are good, bad and indifferent for donkeys years, if you look objectively at our squads through the years you'll see this quite clearly.
It's not down to one "plan" and the moneyball concept is way overblown in any case.
On the one hand you decry lack of investment and "moneyball" and on the other you talk about money wasted on players.
Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.
A goalkeeper on the cheap? Maybe, but the other side of that is that Karius was one of the most highly thought of 'keepers in the German League.

3) Of course there is a plan.
Unless you think the manager is lying.
The club works all year round scouting and assessing players.
The very same as every top flight club.
Or perhaps you think all those scouts, analysts etc just work half the year and sit around picking up wages for F**k all for the other half?

Half the players you mention were bought before FSG arrived, so I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about, so much so that I can't be arsed continuing if you can't even get this very basic fact right, not to mention the fella who was supposed to be "steadying the ship" was a total fraud of a manager put in place by that giant of football Purslow.

To insist that our problems start, and end with FSG is actually re-writing history.
The club has been mismanaged for near 30 years, and only in the last 5 years has that been addressed, but there's still a mountain of work to do, in order to be able to compete with the mega money clubs.

Wait, wait.... Mags is a mod?

Is right, so watch it or you'll be in the slammer

(I'm not actually)

haha, my bad, getting mixed up again.

Although...
IMO one of the best posters on here

Cheers

1) Yes managers can get it wrong, but guess what? KK, Rodgers, Klopp and various England managers all rate Henderson highly, so I know where my trust goes on that one, as well as the evidence I see with my own eyes, and 50 years of watching football.
The fact that you infer your opinion is right when all these men in top flight jobs have got it wrong is a bit much.
Actually, it's more than a bit much, it appears very arrogant, unless you'd like to rephrase it.
Henderson is not a "safe passer", he is a distributor; he sets the tempo for the whole team, and triggers the press, rarely missing a pass. If you think otherwise, then I can only think you haven't really seen much of him.
Your idea of "safe passing" seems to be a continuation of the idea that any pass is a safe pass unless someone hits it 50 or 60 yards and puts it on a sixpence (but I've seen Henderson do that plenty of times as well).
In a system that values possession, the key is rotation, of both the ball and players, keeping things moving, drawing opponents out and recycling the ball when resetting.
This is where Henderson is so valuable, and that's before I even mention his physical attributes and his aggression.

Look, they rate him, I don't. Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho all seem to rate Fellaini based on how much they have used him, or how much the latter two played Herrera. Fergurson used to love Cleverly, the likes of O'Shea. Wenger loves playing Coquelin and Ramsey, and people all around rate Kante.

I love midfielders that can pass the ball, be creative with it. Those who try and do something special with it; players that are comfortable with it even when there is pressure all around. That is what separates the best players from the rest. Those players up there, I do not rate those players up there, and yet they are/were rated by some of the best managers of our age.

If Henderson was such a great player, why did the team add Wijnaldum? Why is Klopp so interested in getting Naby Keita? There is something that is missing in midfield.
What have all these managers who rate Henderson achieved with him either in domestic competition or at international level? Nothing.

2) No one is trying to "re-write history". Like it or not, our malaise started nearly 30 years ago, so to blame one lot of owners is nonsense.
Commercial activities became extremely important when sky came in, and we still haven't caught up.
We've been buying players that are good, bad and indifferent for donkeys years, if you look objectively at our squads through the years you'll see this quite clearly.
It's not down to one "plan" and the moneyball concept is way overblown in any case.
On the one hand you decry lack of investment and "moneyball" and on the other you talk about money wasted on players.
Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.
A goalkeeper on the cheap? Maybe, but the other side of that is that Karius was one of the most highly thought of 'keepers in the German League.

You can have it both ways. The money that was spent on Markovic, Balotelli, Moreno and Lambert, could it not have been spent getting two really good players? That was £52M on a number10/winger who was misused at wing back before spending two years on loan, a striker who then became a really good scapegoat when things were not going right, a fullback that everyone who had watched Sevilla knew could not defend, and a striker than was not needed but purchased either way.
Balotelli left for nothing, Klopp is trying to get rid of both Moreno and Markovic. Lost money, lost time, lost opportunity.

The money spent on Aspas, Ilori, and Luis Alberto, almost £21M, could this not have been converted to one quality starter? None of these players was ever considered a starter, none of them even came close to being a starter.


You then had Borini, Allen, Assaidi. £25M spent on two players everyone knew would not push the team forward but the new manager had worked with them.

Downing, Enrique, Coates, Adam, Carroll, Henderson for around £95M. In that £120M outlay, only Suarez turned out to be a class player. Go anywhere, people will tell you that that was horrible investment. What has followed is one league cup, and now two Champions League appearances since the ownership took over.

Dalglish had an opportunity to put this team somewhere on the map, and he had the funds needed to really chase after some good players. Rodgers had the opportunity to go out there and replace Suarez with some players of genuine quality but fumbled his way. I lose count of players  that were bought for what is considered a small amount of money in the hope that they could turn out into something special.

Put Henderson today in the market, who buys him? Coates, Borini, Allen, Assaidi, Luis Alberto, Aspas, Ilori, Markovic, Moreno, how many of these panned out?

3) Of course there is a plan.
Unless you think the manager is lying.
The club works all year round scouting and assessing players.
The very same as every top flight club.
Or perhaps you think all those scouts, analysts etc just work half the year and sit around picking up wages for f**k all for the other half?

Half the players you mention were bought before FSG arrived, so I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about, so much so that I can't be arsed continuing if you can't even get this very basic fact right, not to mention the fella who was supposed to be "steadying the ship" was a total fraud of a manager put in place by that giant of football Purslow.

To insist that our problems start, and end with FSG is actually re-writing history.
The club has been mismanaged for near 30 years, and only in the last 5 years has that been addressed, but there's still a mountain of work to do, in order to be able to compete with the mega money clubs.

What on earth are you going on about? I am talking of poor planning going back years.

It is even worse right now because there is no excuse that there are no funds.

You are talking scouting. Want to see what good scouting looks like? Read this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

Or look at how Barcelona got the likes of Iniesta, Pedro, Messi. Good scouting is getting Keita last season before he blows up, but as Monchi said some time back, teams with money like in the Premier League would rather someone else took the risk of scouting and developing and then coming in with money.

Also said this in an earlier post. Really good midfielders are there, Tolisso, Paredes have been snapped up by teams that moved early. There is Seri, Manu Trigueros, or if you wanted, there is Milinkovic-Savic who could become very good.

Look, they rate him, I don't. Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho all seem to rate Fellaini based on how much they have used him, or how much the latter two played Herrera. Fergurson used to love Cleverly, the likes of O'Shea. Wenger loves playing Coquelin and Ramsey, and people all around rate Kante.

I love midfielders that can pass the ball, be creative with it. Those who try and do something special with it; players that are comfortable with it even when there is pressure all around. That is what separates the best players from the rest. Those players up there, I do not rate those players up there, and yet they are/were rated by some of the best managers of our age.

If Henderson was such a great player, why did the team add Wijnaldum? Why is Klopp so interested in getting Naby Keita? There is something that is missing in midfield.
What have all these managers who rate Henderson achieved with him either in domestic competition or at international level? Nothing.

Every single one of those players is a pro with a different skillset, that fits the system played by their managers.
You also can't have 4 Coutinho's in midfield, you need dynamism, athleticism, an eye for a pass, and the ability to lead, which Henderson has in abundance.
I also seem to remember a fella called Kenny Dalglish (you know, the guy who bought Henderson) winning a few things, but hey, what does he know.

Regardless, I value my own opinion backed by the opinion of great managers over yours.

You can have it both ways. The money that was spent on Markovic, Balotelli, Moreno and Lambert, could it not have been spent getting two really good players? That was £52M on a number10/winger who was misused at wing back before spending two years on loan, a striker who then became a really good scapegoat when things were not going right, a fullback that everyone who had watched Sevilla knew could not defend, and a striker than was not needed but purchased either way.
Balotelli left for nothing, Klopp is trying to get rid of both Moreno and Markovic. Lost money, lost time, lost opportunity.

The money spent on Aspas, Ilori, and Luis Alberto, almost £21M, could this not have been converted to one quality starter? None of these players was ever considered a starter, none of them even came close to being a starter.


You then had Borini, Allen, Assaidi. £25M spent on two players everyone knew would not push the team forward but the new manager had worked with them.

Downing, Enrique, Coates, Adam, Carroll, Henderson for around £95M. In that £120M outlay, only Suarez turned out to be a class player. Go anywhere, people will tell you that that was horrible investment. What has followed is one league cup, and now two Champions League appearances since the ownership took over.

Dalglish had an opportunity to put this team somewhere on the map, and he had the funds needed to really chase after some good players. Rodgers had the opportunity to go out there and replace Suarez with some players of genuine quality but fumbled his way. I lose count of players  that were bought for what is considered a small amount of money in the hope that they could turn out into something special.

Put Henderson today in the market, who buys him? Coates, Borini, Allen, Assaidi, Luis Alberto, Aspas, Ilori, Markovic, Moreno, how many of these panned out?

No, you can't say on the one hand that we don't spend any money and then on the other hand say we spend too much money but waste it.
That's contradictory nonsense.

What on earth are you going on about? I am talking of poor planning going back years.

It is even worse right now because there is no excuse that there are no funds.

You are talking scouting. Want to see what good scouting looks like? Read this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

Or look at how Barcelona got the likes of Iniesta, Pedro, Messi. Good scouting is getting Keita last season before he blows up, but as Monchi said some time back, teams with money like in the Premier League would rather someone else took the risk of scouting and developing and then coming in with money.

Also said this in an earlier post. Really good midfielders are there, Tolisso, Paredes have been snapped up by teams that moved early. There is Seri, Manu Trigueros, or if you wanted, there is Milinkovic-Savic who could become very good.

First you accuse others of "trying to re-write history", and then say exactly the same as I've been saying all along.
Remarkable u-turn there; are you a tory MP by any chance?

I know exactly what good scouting looks like thanks.
I saw it throughout the 70's and 80's

I know it's very fashionable amongst some "fans" to slag off our players and run down the club, saying this player or that player is sh*t, but untilo you provide credentials showing your qualifications and experience in top flight football, I'm going to go with Klopp's idea's, experience and management skills.

Look, they rate him, I don't. Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho all seem to rate Fellaini based on how much they have used him, or how much the latter two played Herrera. Fergurson used to love Cleverly, the likes of O'Shea. Wenger loves playing Coquelin and Ramsey, and people all around rate Kante.

I love midfielders that can pass the ball, be creative with it. Those who try and do something special with it; players that are comfortable with it even when there is pressure all around. That is what separates the best players from the rest. Those players up there, I do not rate those players up there, and yet they are/were rated by some of the best managers of our age.

If Henderson was such a great player, why did the team add Wijnaldum? Why is Klopp so interested in getting Naby Keita? There is something that is missing in midfield.
What have all these managers who rate Henderson achieved with him either in domestic competition or at international level? Nothing.

You can have it both ways. The money that was spent on Markovic, Balotelli, Moreno and Lambert, could it not have been spent getting two really good players? That was £52M on a number10/winger who was misused at wing back before spending two years on loan, a striker who then became a really good scapegoat when things were not going right, a fullback that everyone who had watched Sevilla knew could not defend, and a striker than was not needed but purchased either way.
Balotelli left for nothing, Klopp is trying to get rid of both Moreno and Markovic. Lost money, lost time, lost opportunity.

The money spent on Aspas, Ilori, and Luis Alberto, almost £21M, could this not have been converted to one quality starter? None of these players was ever considered a starter, none of them even came close to being a starter.


You then had Borini, Allen, Assaidi. £25M spent on two players everyone knew would not push the team forward but the new manager had worked with them.

Downing, Enrique, Coates, Adam, Carroll, Henderson for around £95M. In that £120M outlay, only Suarez turned out to be a class player. Go anywhere, people will tell you that that was horrible investment. What has followed is one league cup, and now two Champions League appearances since the ownership took over.

Dalglish had an opportunity to put this team somewhere on the map, and he had the funds needed to really chase after some good players. Rodgers had the opportunity to go out there and replace Suarez with some players of genuine quality but fumbled his way. I lose count of players  that were bought for what is considered a small amount of money in the hope that they could turn out into something special.

Put Henderson today in the market, who buys him? Coates, Borini, Allen, Assaidi, Luis Alberto, Aspas, Ilori, Markovic, Moreno, how many of these panned out?
What on earth are you going on about? I am talking of poor planning going back years.

It is even worse right now because there is no excuse that there are no funds.

You are talking scouting. Want to see what good scouting looks like? Read this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

Or look at how Barcelona got the likes of Iniesta, Pedro, Messi. Good scouting is getting Keita last season before he blows up, but as Monchi said some time back, teams with money like in the Premier League would rather someone else took the risk of scouting and developing and then coming in with money.

Also said this in an earlier post. Really good midfielders are there, Tolisso, Paredes have been snapped up by teams that moved early. There is Seri, Manu Trigueros, or if you wanted, there is Milinkovic-Savic who could become very good.

Great post mate!

Some would have it that Henderson is directly comparable with Xabi Alonso, the facts tell a different story,
On his day Henderson can do a job for us but he is no match winner in the mould of Alonso.

Every single one of those players is a pro with a different skillset, that fits the system played by their managers.
You also can't have 4 Coutinho's in midfield, you need dynamism, athleticism, an eye for a pass, and the ability to lead, which Henderson has in abundance.
I also seem to remember a fella called Kenny Dalglish (you know, the guy who bought Henderson) winning a few things, but hey, what does he know.

Henderson is fit, he can run and run, that is it. There is a reason England are mediocre without someone who can play the ball like Wilshere, there is a reason why teams like Ludogorets had a field day in the Champions League  last time we were there. There is a reason why despite pressing teams, there are leaks that lead to open chances the other side....midfield does not essentially do a great job tactically.

There is a reason as to why the team struggles to get any kind of chances when a team sits deep, it is because very few in the team can create outside the pressing system.

Regardless, I value my own opinion backed by the opinion of great managers over yours.No, you can't say on the one hand that we don't spend any money and then on the other hand say we spend too much money but waste it.
That's contradictory nonsense.

First you accuse others of "trying to re-write history", and then say exactly the same as I've been saying all along.
Remarkable u-turn there; are you a tory MP by any chance?

I know exactly what good scouting looks like thanks.
I saw it throughout the 70's and 80's

I know it's very fashionable amongst some "fans" to slag off our players and run down the club, saying this player or that player is sh*t, but untilo you provide credentials showing your qualifications and experience in top flight football, I'm going to go with Klopp's idea's, experience and management skills.

Your posts seem to be getting smaller, and with good reason. The point I was trying to pass across, the point others have tried passing to you before you made some sensationalist claims was this; that money has been spent on players who did nothing for the team, a lot of money.
That money better spent on a few quality players would have given this team a foundation needed to better build a more functional team.

Show me a team in the world that was great that did not have continuity. There is none. Continuity is the platform on which great sides are built.

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Neville, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney.

Cech, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Essien, Lampard, Drogba.

Lauren, Cole, Vieira, Bergkamp, Ljumberg, Pires, Henry, Keown.

Nesta, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Ambrosini.

Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Dani Alves, Busquets, Xavi (now Rakitic), Iniesta, Messi.

Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy, Toure, Silva, Aguero.

Pepe/Varane, Sergio Ramos, Modric, Ronaldo, Benzema, Carvajal, Keylor Navas, Kroos.

Lahm, Neuer, Boateng, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Marchisio, Khedira, Lichsteiner, Mandzukic.

Even the current Arsenal side that has won three FA Cups in 5 years has had Koscielny, Mertesacker, Cazorla, Ramsey, Ozil, Giroud, Monreal. They have started reaping the benefits of keeping their team together, something that they could not do when they were repaying stadium debt.

Where is the spine at Liverpool FC. Where is the continuity?

Here is the reality; if the team is not competing for bigger and better more consistently, the talent drain that we have mainly seen the past few years will continue. Suarez left, Sterling left and it is likely that Coutinho without improvements will similarly demand to leave.

The first choice keeper is first choice because the man who was supposed to replace him was not ready yet. One would think that Matip and Van Dijk were the planned CB partnership with Naby Keita joining Coutinho plus one more in midfield, and that over time this team together with a front three of Mane, Salah and Firmino would grow and develop together.

Klopp who you seem to be treating like a god had a stellar team at Dortmund, but the moment teams started picking off their best talent year on year, standards started falling. He could not replace players as fast as he was losing them and he ended up in 7th. No matter how good you are, you need to keep your best players, and build around them.

There was a time when I could look at the team and see Reina, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres and would say that if they had two or three quality players around them, playing at a similar level, they would have had a team that would have been great at home and Europe. It was not to be.

As we speak, other teams are investing. Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal all have some continuity going for them, and look at the players that they are looking to add. These teams alongside United have been winning too, so there is that pedigree, that is what we are up against.

The lack of continuity is something that stems from the strategy to try and bring in young players that could turn out to be gems. Buy cheap, develop and sell expensive.

He must agree with everything you say then 😊

 

Some cracking posts by grooveshark in here.

Some cracking posts by grooveshark in here.

Absolutely, its hard to argue against anything he has put so far!

Henderson is fit, he can run and run, that is it. There is a reason England are mediocre without someone who can play the ball like Wilshere, there is a reason why teams like Ludogorets had a field day in the Champions League  last time we were there. There is a reason why despite pressing teams, there are leaks that lead to open chances the other side....midfield does not essentially do a great job tactically.

There is a reason as to why the team struggles to get any kind of chances when a team sits deep, it is because very few in the team can create outside the pressing system.
Your posts seem to be getting smaller, and with good reason. The point I was trying to pass across, the point others have tried passing to you before you made some sensationalist claims was this; that money has been spent on players who did nothing for the team, a lot of money.
That money better spent on a few quality players would have given this team a foundation needed to better build a more functional team.

Show me a team in the world that was great that did not have continuity. There is none. Continuity is the platform on which great sides are built.

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Neville, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney.

Cech, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Essien, Lampard, Drogba.

Lauren, Cole, Vieira, Bergkamp, Ljumberg, Pires, Henry, Keown.

Nesta, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Ambrosini.

Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Dani Alves, Busquets, Xavi (now Rakitic), Iniesta, Messi.

Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy, Toure, Silva, Aguero.

Pepe/Varane, Sergio Ramos, Modric, Ronaldo, Benzema, Carvajal, Keylor Navas, Kroos.

Lahm, Neuer, Boateng, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Marchisio, Khedira, Lichsteiner, Mandzukic.

Even the current Arsenal side that has won three FA Cups in 5 years has had Koscielny, Mertesacker, Cazorla, Ramsey, Ozil, Giroud, Monreal. They have started reaping the benefits of keeping their team together, something that they could not do when they were repaying stadium debt.

Where is the spine at Liverpool FC. Where is the continuity?

Here is the reality; if the team is not competing for bigger and better more consistently, the talent drain that we have mainly seen the past few years will continue. Suarez left, Sterling left and it is likely that Coutinho without improvements will similarly demand to leave.

The first choice keeper is first choice because the man who was supposed to replace him was not ready yet. One would think that Matip and Van Dijk were the planned CB partnership with Naby Keita joining Coutinho plus one more in midfield, and that over time this team together with a front three of Mane, Salah and Firmino would grow and develop together.

Klopp who you seem to be treating like a god had a stellar team at Dortmund, but the moment teams started picking off their best talent year on year, standards started falling. He could not replace players as fast as he was losing them and he ended up in 7th. No matter how good you are, you need to keep your best players, and build around them.

There was a time when I could look at the team and see Reina, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres and would say that if they had two or three quality players around them, playing at a similar level, they would have had a team that would have been great at home and Europe. It was not to be.

As we speak, other teams are investing. Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal all have some continuity going for them, and look at the players that they are looking to add. These teams alongside United have been winning too, so there is that pedigree, that is what we are up against.

The lack of continuity is something that stems from the strategy to try and bring in young players that could turn out to be gems. Buy cheap, develop and sell expensive.

Haha
So you agree with me at last.

I've been banging on about continuity in post after post, for years, and yet you ignored it in favour of contradicting your own previous arguments.
First you banged on about no money being spent, then money not being spent "wisely", and then backtracked on the very point I'd been making all along.

The strategy isn't "buy young, sell expensive".
When we buy youngsters, we only do what every team near the top does; we try to get young players and develop them.
That's it.
If youngsters fail to make the grade, and we manage to get more than we paid for them, what's the problem?

Now let's take your little copy and paste of what you consider to be "great" teams, and I' raise you this one:

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Neville, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney.

Cech, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Essien, Lampard, Drogba.

Lauren, Cole, Vieira, Bergkamp, Ljumberg, Pires, Henry, Keown.

Nesta, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Ambrosini.

Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Dani Alves, Busquets, Xavi (now Rakitic), Iniesta, Messi.

Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy, Toure, Silva, Aguero.

Pepe/Varane, Sergio Ramos, Modric, Ronaldo, Benzema, Carvajal, Keylor Navas, Kroos.

Lahm, Neuer, Boateng, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Marchisio, Khedira, Lichsteiner, Mandzukic.

1        Dudek (not a very good keeper)
3    Finnan  (not a great FB)
23    Carragher   (tried hard, good last ditch defender)
4    Hyypia    (Excellent defender)
14    Alonso   (good passer, not very good defensively)
10    Luis Garcia   (had more bad games than good games for us)
8    Gerrard   (A world class player, but left a huge hole that Milan exploited - made up for that with his creative impetus)
21    Traore  (He won a European Cup? Really?)
7    Kewell   (Makes Sturrdige look like a Terminator)
6    Riise    (sh*t defender, great left foot)
5    Baros   (Nice hair)

I'd argue that the first team we have now is superior in every position except one.


Then again, let's go further back and look at 1984
GK    1    Zimbabwe Bruce Grobbelaar  (absolute nutter, fu**ed up all the time, made jelly legs; folk hero)
RB    2    England Phil Neal    Super defender, never gave an inch
LB    3    England Alan Kennedy    Nutter, what he lacked in talent he made up with heart
CB    4    Republic of Ireland Mark Lawrenson  Elegant, and precise
LM    5    Republic of Ireland Ronnie Whelan   Dirty, dirty dog who could also play
CB    6    Scotland Alan Hansen   Lacked pace
SS    7    Scotland Kenny Dalglish       Substituted off 94'  (super player)
CM    8    England Sammy Lee  ran a lot and tried hard
CF    9    Wales Ian Rush   The original "press" attacker, never gave them a moments peace
RM    10    England Craig Johnston       Substituted off 72'  Industrious, got up and down well
CM    11    Scotland Graeme Souness (c)  Supreme in midfield, best General we ever had

See, we can all name drop and talk about what other teams do, but I'd rather focus on what Liverpool do, rather than compare us to some of the best teams in history.
To become one of the best takes time; you keep bringing up Barca, and yet neglect to say their academy recruitment process took 15 years to come to fruition.

It's not about "names", it's about balance, and what the manager judges to be the best balance for the team.

We can all throw names around of who we think are good players, but at the end of the day, it's about how they fit, and the job they do.
Like Lucas allowing others more freedom because he had the back locked down, along with the split CB's, which is just another example of Klopp bringing his version of "total football" with players interchanging.



We have a decent first, we have some options, but could do with more depth, and some more quality.
It's all part of Klopp building his team, and support of Klopp is nothing to do with "treating him like a god", but rather recognition of a Master going about his business.
You could learn a lot from him, but I suspect your opinions are far too loud for you to listen to one of the top managers in the game, and it seems like you have a bee in your bonnet about him, and don't like him very much.

You've been quite disparaging of our manager over the course of this conversation, and I'm just going to say that I support him 100%, and if you don't, that's your problem, but you'll be a hypocrite if you celebrate when (not if) he delivers.

Absolutely, its hard to argue against anything he has put so far!

Somebody is trying. 

Good grief, give the keyboard a rest, wall of words is wordy.

Haha
So you agree with me at last.

I've been banging on about continuity in post after post, for years, and yet you ignored it in favour of contradicting your own previous arguments.
First you banged on about no money being spent, then money not being spent "wisely", and then backtracked on the very point I'd been making all along.

The strategy isn't "buy young, sell expensive".
When we buy youngsters, we only do what every team near the top does; we try to get young players and develop them.
That's it.
If youngsters fail to make the grade, and we manage to get more than we paid for them, what's the problem?

Have you looked at some of the players that Chelsea have sold at a profit? Have you looked at some of the honors they have gained in the last 15 or so years? You can sell youth while winning; the two are not mutually exclusive.

On a point of correction, we are not in agreement. You point of argument and you stated it was that there were changes in coaching and that is what has brought up the mess we see. Not true.

Allegri took over from Conte, that season they won the league and were in the Champions League final; they were back again there this season.
Diego Simeone took over a faltering Atletico Madrid. His focus was the academy, and that he should see an end to the incessant boardroom wrangles. He delivered a league and two Champions League final appearances, and established Atleti as one of the best three teams in La Liga.
Jose Mourinho left Chelsea, yet that squad that he left behind was what eventually brought Abramovich the Champions League.
The team that Jupp Heynckes left behind for Pep Guardiola to date still has a good amount of players, yet it is now managed by Ancelotti, and that Real Madrid team that Jose Mourinho left for Ancelotti is what Zidane has been able to work so well with with a few additions.
Pep Guardiola found a lot of players from Rijkaard's era, promoted from within and bought. He left that team to Vilanova, who passed it down to Martino who gave it to Enrique. Going into next season, Alba, Pique, Busquets, Iniesta, Messi still stand as players that passed through Guardiola's coaching time.

If a team is good, if the players are quality, then a coaching change does little to disrupt the harmony of the team. Look no further than what Luis Enrique's managerial career was before he got Barcelona, it was hardly glamorous, neither was Di Matteo.
Great players make a manager's work easy, good luck arguing against that.

Now let's take your little copy and paste of what you consider to be "great" teams, and I' raise you this one:

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Neville, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney.

Cech, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Essien, Lampard, Drogba.

Lauren, Cole, Vieira, Bergkamp, Ljumberg, Pires, Henry, Keown.

Nesta, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Ambrosini.

Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Dani Alves, Busquets, Xavi (now Rakitic), Iniesta, Messi.

Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy, Toure, Silva, Aguero.

Pepe/Varane, Sergio Ramos, Modric, Ronaldo, Benzema, Carvajal, Keylor Navas, Kroos.

Lahm, Neuer, Boateng, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Marchisio, Khedira, Lichsteiner, Mandzukic.

1        Dudek (not a very good keeper)
3    Finnan  (not a great FB)
23    Carragher   (tried hard, good last ditch defender)
4    Hyypia    (Excellent defender)
14    Alonso   (good passer, not very good defensively)
10    Luis Garcia   (had more bad games than good games for us)
8    Gerrard   (A world class player, but left a huge hole that Milan exploited - made up for that with his creative impetus)
21    Traore  (He won a European Cup? Really?)
7    Kewell   (Makes Sturrdige look like a Terminator)
6    Riise    (Sh*t defender, great left foot)
5    Baros   (Nice hair)

I'd argue that the first team we have now is superior in every position except one.


Then again, let's go further back and look at 1984
GK    1    Zimbabwe Bruce Grobbelaar  (absolute nutter, fu**ed up all the time, made jelly legs; folk hero)
RB    2    England Phil Neal    Super defender, never gave an inch
LB    3    England Alan Kennedy    Nutter, what he lacked in talent he made up with heart
CB    4    Republic of Ireland Mark Lawrenson  Elegant, and precise
LM    5    Republic of Ireland Ronnie Whelan   Dirty, dirty dog who could also play
CB    6    Scotland Alan Hansen   Lacked pace
SS    7    Scotland Kenny Dalglish       Substituted off 94'  (super player)
CM    8    England Sammy Lee  ran a lot and tried hard
CF    9    Wales Ian Rush   The original "press" attacker, never gave them a moments peace
RM    10    England Craig Johnston       Substituted off 72'  Industrious, got up and down well
CM    11    Scotland Graeme Souness (c)  Supreme in midfield, best General we ever had

See, we can all name drop and talk about what other teams do, but I'd rather focus on what Liverpool do, rather than compare us to some of the best teams in history.

These were the best teams of the last decade and a half. Some of these teams are still winning it today, and have aspirations to continue winning.

To become one of the best takes time; you keep bringing up Barca, and yet neglect to say their academy recruitment process took 15 years to come to fruition.

No. Unless you did not watch Barcelona in the 90's, and even when they had a large Dutch contingent because the focus was on buying as opposed to promoting from within, they still had a lot of players graduating and going to perform for other teams.

When Laporta eventually took over, he made a very clear decision that they would look to promote from within. It was a decision taken at a time when Barcelona had invested heavily in players from other teams/leagues. So you saw Messi become a central figure, Pedro promoted and benching Henry, they bought back Alba, Pique bought from United, Busquets promoted, Iniesta given a prominent role and Guardiola coming in from Barca B. They would be further ahead had they simply started Thiago for a few more games or given Samper the opportunities he needed to really grow. That is something that has not been seen as important by the new board that seems keen on buying.

It's not about "names", it's about balance, and what the manager judges to be the best balance for the team.

We can all throw names around of who we think are good players, but at the end of the day, it's about how they fit, and the job they do.
Like Lucas allowing others more freedom because he had the back locked down, along with the split CB's, which is just another example of Klopp bringing his version of "total football" with players interchanging.

This is what every team that lacks a winning mentality says.

Quality players have names because they got to a place where their names have to be recognized. You are talking balance; before Barcelona and Spain won it all with small technical players in midfield and upfront, how many teams were playing like that?

Before Florentino Perez in the late 90's assembled the original galacticos, how many teams even dreamed of simply buying stars and assembling a team?
Now you see teams buying stars, or players on the cusp of being superstars all the time, and it costs money. That is something we either embrace or fall further back.

We have a decent first, we have some options, but could do with more depth, and some more quality.
It's all part of Klopp building his team, and support of Klopp is nothing to do with "treating him like a god", but rather recognition of a Master going about his business.
You could learn a lot from him, but I suspect your opinions are far too loud for you to listen to one of the top managers in the game, and it seems like you have a bee in your bonnet about him, and don't like him very much.

You've been quite disparaging of our manager over the course of this conversation, and I'm just going to say that I support him 100%, and if you don't, that's your problem, but you'll be a hypocrite if you celebrate when (not if) he delivers.

I am not disparaging Klopp, I am simply saying the man is not a god that we should worship and never question him.

Reina, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres. In their prime at Liverpool, they were in the top 5-7 of their respective positions. All they needed was a better left back with Aurelio's injury problems a class CB, and better players on the wing and the bench. It was never to be. Mascherano left for Barcelona, Alonso soon wanted out, Torres body started disintegrating and Reina started going backwards.

Ask people to name the best 6 players of the last dozen years at Liverpool, and the only player that is added there is Suarez. That shows you how much the team has struggled to replace their quality.
You can now talk of systems, building a team and all that.......it is a debate I heard when Dalglish was spending money on Carroll, Downing, Adam, Enrique, Henderson, Coates and the ilk.
It was a debate that was repeated when Rodgers was wasting money on the likes of Benteke, Lovren, and whatever politics was there when it came to players it is said were bought without his consent, whether true or not.

^^^^^This is a deaf following the blind mindset where people are discouraged from forming their opinions, and not only forming their opinions, but sharing them. In this thread alone, you have already told someone that he only posts negative things to get pluses, you are now telling me I could learn a lot from Klopp.
What could I possibly learn from him? He is a manager whose job is to get the best out of the resources available, we do not interact. I am a fan who supports the team, not a single player, not a manager, and my main hope is that the team I support can consistently challenge and win titles and cups.

I asked you where is our spine? There is none. That is the first thing he has to build, and with quality players that allow him to focus on other areas in successive windows. It took an age to get rid of the players Dalglish and Hodgson signed, and the team is not yet done with some of the poor additions that took place during Rodgers tenure.
Bad decisions slow down progress, good decisions hasten them. Appointing Klopp was a great decision, how player recruitment has gone is something that needs to catch up.

And if you want to live in a vacuum, so be it, but one thing I can assure you is that if a substandard window leads to poor results next season, the same people who want others to not critique will be among the first to complain. Champions League football was never the final destination, but something that ought to help bridge the financial gap and help the team acquire better talent.

And if you want to live in a vacuum, so be it, but one thing I can assure you is that if a substandard window leads to poor results next season, the same people who want others to not critique will be among the first to complain. Champions League football was never the final destination, but something that ought to help bridge the financial gap and help the team acquire better talent.

Another good post. Just wanted to highlight this bit, unfortunately those same people who don't want others to critique our transfer operations WILL NOT be the first to complain. They are so entrenched in their view they will continue to make excuses ad nauseam. They haven't learned anything in seven years. I know, because I used to be one of them who afforded our owners/committee the benefit of the doubt, and called for patience - like Klopp is doing now.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see. I soon realised that the constant dicking around in the window's, or lack of  became habitual. If we're not wasting good money on computer analysed data-based bean counted players, then we're f**king around on the manager's own targets. Happened under Rodgers and it's happening now under Klopp. I mean, the fiasco of VVD was put down as a "storm in a tea cup", but someone. That insouciance is an act to calm what is rightly a monumental show of unprofessional incompetence. A target. A priority. Early on. Big fee. Cocked right up. That's more than a storm in a tea cup and that is frankly not even an excuse worthy of rebuttal.

How many times has it been said down the years "next summer will be the tester", it was said last season when we made the CL under Klopp. It was over to FSG now to keep their end of the bargain up and deliver for the manager and team. We're fast becoming a parody of ourselves, except it's not 'we're gonna win the league next year' anymore, it's 'we're gonna need a good window to kick on now', every F***ing window we say this as though it's more important than the football itself. And it is, because if you don't value add quality to your team year on year, you end up what half these bells do, constantly making excuses for this club's poor fortunes.

People will say, wait until the window closes, and their circular logic will start again in the next window, it's the same old sh*t excuses - ad nauseam. You won't wake these people out of their slumber grooveshark, let them carry on in their flippant indifference to our very chequed transfer history. If making FSG look better than they are is where it's at for them, so be it.

I asked you where is our spine?

There is none.

That is the first thing he has to build, and with quality players that allow him to focus on other areas in successive windows.

That is what I have saying month in month out.

I refer to Mourinho with the addition of players to the spine who when added that season went on to win the title.

Courtois   at the back and Costa up front


Using the experienced , ruthless Chelsea  selling and   buying team of Marina Granovskaia and Michael Emenalo to do just that.

That is what I have saying month in month out.

I refer to Mourinho with the addition of players to the spine who when added that season went on to win the title.

Courtois   at the back and Costa up front


Using the experienced , ruthless Chelsea  selling and   buying team of Marina Granovskaia and Michael Emenalo to do just that.

Indeed you have mate.

To be fair and I know it's less popular around here than it seems to be elsewhere among LFC fans but I actually think we have 2 of the 4 pieces of our spine in place.

Matip and Firmino are both exceptional players, my only worry is Matip gets injured a little too much. If we added Keita and VvD then I think we'd only be a goalkeeper away from a full set.

Apparently this week Jürgen is going to up the pace on the transfer front. Lighting the coals under our negotiators, more figuratively than literally unfortunately and we're getting Suarez back. If the last part doesn't come true you can blame FL and his sauces.