Houllier v Benitez

 Wasn't Lucio about 3 million quid or something? Besides I must have it wrong because I was under the impression that most of the funds for the purchases came from the sale of Ibrhamovic to Barca. I remember when Mourinho went there though and people said he couldn't possibly fail as they'd won three titles in a row. They were right of course, two years later they'd won five titles ina  row and won the Champions League as well. Soon as Rafa went there though it was a poisoned chalice and he was doomed to failure .

 Rafa is a decent manager there's no doubting it, but the ability of his fan club to make excuses and dismiss any failures is not decent it's truly World Class.

And just like with Rafa I think Kenny, Gerrard and Carra were wrong not to protest the debt.

I think you need to read a few books then come back mate. Rafa never asked were the money came from, or went to, all he wanted was more. H&G spent £75million on transfers in their first season. 

All rafa protested about was more money for transfers in May 2007, to save his job in November 2007, and for a new contract in 2009 when he also told Liverpool players not to sign a new contract..... even though they wanted to. Effectively holding the club to ransom. 

Where can I get Hicks Biography from. It sounds like the only thing holding LFC back from winning the league was the 'Fat Spaniard'. Are you serious? I am sorry mate I thought you wanted a reasonable debate. Thanks God Hicks and GIllette exposed that fraud Rafa and delivered Hodgson to us. After all the money they lavished on us.

Dalglish Carragher and Gerrard were all at the club and there wasn't a murmur out of them.

From the best of my knowledge Rafa torres and reina were the only people to say anything.

Also saint if you think Rafa said not to protest you really need to see what sos said.

Wasn't Lucio about 3 million quid or something? Besides I must have it wrong because I was under the impression that most of the funds for the purchases came from the sale of Ibrhamovic to Barca. I remember when Mourinho went there though and people said he couldn't possibly fail as they'd won three titles in a row. They were right of course, two years later they'd won five titles ina  row and won the Champions League as well. Soon as Rafa went there though it was a poisoned chalice and he was doomed to failure .

 Rafa is a decent manager there's no doubting it, but the ability of his fan club to make excuses and dismiss any failures is not decent it's truly World Class.

according to Ballague moratti has said it was a mistake sacking him.  I think what has happened since there there clearly shows that

Wasn't Lucio about 3 million quid or something? Besides I must have it wrong because I was under the impression that most of the funds for the purchases came from the sale of Ibrhamovic to Barca. I remember when Mourinho went there though and people said he couldn't possibly fail as they'd won three titles in a row. They were right of course, two years later they'd won five titles ina  row and won the Champions League as well. Soon as Rafa went there though it was a poisoned chalice and he was doomed to failure .

Firstly you forget to put in 'wages' As for his fan club. Mourinho won with Chelsea 2 leagues and a carling cup and fa cup. Rafa won a CL and FA cup ( second final in the CL and a CC final) Mourinho's chelsea had far more money and two teams which is decisive in a league. Mourinho in spain has won the Copa del Ray with Real Madird who have spent more money than any team in that league. Rafa won 2 leagues and a UEFA cup with the fourht bggest budget and substanitallu less than BArca and Madrid ( who had some pretty good players mind)

The only debatable place is Italy and that is what you make off it
 Rafa is a decent manager there's no doubting it, but the ability of his fan club to make excuses and dismiss any failures is not decent it's truly World Class.

Firstly you forget to put in 'wages' As for his fan club. Mourinho won with Chelsea 2 leagues and a carling cup and fa cup. Rafa won a CL and FA cup ( second final in the CL and a CC final) Mourinho's chelsea had far more money and two teams which is decisive in a league. Mourinho in spain has won the Copa del Ray with Real Madird who have spent more money than any team in that league. Rafa won 2 leagues and a UEFA cup with the fourht bggest budget and substanitallu less than BArca and Madrid ( who had some pretty good players mind)

The only debatable place is Italy and that is what you make off it
 Rafa is a decent manager there's no doubting it, but the ability of his fan club to make excuses and dismiss any failures is not decent it's truly World Class.

Firstly you forget to put in 'wages' As for his fan club. Mourinho won with Chelsea 2 leagues and a carling cup and fa cup. Rafa won a CL and FA cup ( second final in the CL and a CC final) Mourinho's chelsea had far more money and two teams which is decisive in a league. Mourinho in spain has won the Copa del Ray with Real Madird who have spent more money than any team in that league. Rafa won 2 leagues and a UEFA cup with the fourht bggest budget and substanitallu less than BArca and Madrid ( who had some pretty good players mind)

The only debatable place is Italy and that is what you make off it
 Rafa is a decent manager there's no doubting it, but the ability of his fan club to make excuses and dismiss any failures is not decent it's truly World Class.

Dalglish Carragher and Gerrard were all at the club and there wasn't a murmur out of them.

From the best of my knowledge Rafa torres and reina were the only people to say anything.

Also saint if you think Rafa said not to protest you really need to see what sos said.

I have already posted proof that Rafa asked s.o.s. not to protest the debt in the Rafa thread, and just said in here that I thought Gerrard, Carra and Kenny were wrong not to protest the debt.

I have tried to post proof not starry eyed romantic versions where I could. No one as yet has proved any different to what I have posted.

when Rafa pretty much failed in Italy it was less at the forefront of peoples consciousness. Also the fact that Rafa inherited a team which had just won the Champions League and had won their domestic title five years on the bounce, meant he was able to claim he had "won two trophies" when they picked up the Italian Charity shield and beat a pub team from Timbuktoo to win the prestigious "World Club Cup" thingie. This was/is naturally seized upon by his most fervent admirers as a measure of success, that is before the "but he was left an ageing team" chestnut is pulled from the embers.

And this is the same person who will say "managers need time" in Kenny's thread... yet consider a manager a failure in less than 6 months at a new club.

according to Ballague moratti has said it was a mistake sacking him.  I think what has happened since there there clearly shows that

You keep saying this, I have still not seen any evidence to back up your claim?

Strange that not one newspaper or tv reporter has commented on what is after all a big statement.

Even RLB admitted that he couldn't find it and just stuck an i.p. address down as he couldn't be bothered.

And this is the same person who will say "managers need time" in Kenny's thread... yet consider a manager a failure in less than 6 months at a new club.

To be fair, losing the dressing room and getting sacked in 6 months can hardly be considered a success.... just ask Roy.

I think it's fairly obvious that Rafa didn't do too well at Inter... he had his problems there, also couldn't buy anyone and suffered with way too many injuries. Still, to try to read so much from a 6-months tenure is just plain hypocrisy. I thought managers needed time, and I thought people with a "Liverpool education" knew that.

To be fair, losing the dressing room and getting sacked in 6 months can hardly be considered a success.... just ask Roy.

Look at Internazionale's history under Moratti and you'll see way too many managers have gone the same way. They had 3 managers just this season, for example.

Well mate i tend to believe Ballague you obviously dont because you can't see through your dislike of the.man.

Also surely you must be even more disappointed with Kenny saying nothing than Rafa not saying enough. Kenny took the job as ambassador when it was clear what hicks and gillette were doing. He was a club legend and had nothing to lose unlike Rafa who the Americans were waiting to sack and only looking for an excuse.

Well mate i tend to believe Ballague you obviously dont because you can't see through your dislike of the.man.

Also surely you must be even more disappointed with Kenny saying nothing than Rafa not saying enough. Kenny took the job as ambassador when it was clear what hicks and gillette were doing. He was a club legend and had nothing to lose unlike Rafa who the Americans were waiting to sack and only looking for an excuse.

You can obviously believe who and what you want mate, I think Kenny should have spoken out, but I don't hold him any more at fault than Rafa, Gerrard or Carra...... they were all wrong imo. 

You keep saying this, I have still not seen any evidence to back up your claim?

Strange that not one newspaper or tv reporter has commented on what is after all a big statement.

Even RLB admitted that he couldn't find it and just stuck an i.p. address down as he couldn't be bothered.

Either I am naive or people are thicker than I had realised. If Rafa had placed in the CL in the quarters, semis and final and making finals of domestic cups and getting record totals in the league and being asked to sell to buy in the last five transfer windows. If an employee under contract is doing his job and getting results is publicly asking his employer, who all the while is talking LFC future prospects under their stewardship up, to invest in the team. WHAT DO YOU THINK HE IS SAYING?

SHOW ME THE BOOKS ... no not really his jurisdiction.
YOU ARE ROBBING US .... once again libleous.
YOU ARE NOT BUYING PLAYERS THEREFORE YOU ARE 1. NOT INTERESTED IN WINNING ...counterproductive
                                                                                  2. BROKE .. SO WHAT THE F**k HAPPENED

do you understand

Look at Internazionale's history under Moratti and you'll see way too many managers have gone the same way. They had 3 managers just this season, for example.

I don't think any of those will be claiming their time at Inter was successful either mate, although I am not sure if they lost the dressing room before being sacked?

Why Rafa spoke out the other 3 were happy to stay quiet.  Not a murmur from them

Either I am naive or people are thicker than I had realised. If Rafa had placed in the CL in the quarters, semis and final and making finals of domestic cups and getting record totals in the league and being asked to sell to buy in the last five transfer windows. If an employee under contract is doing his job and getting results is publicly asking his employer, who all the while is talking LFC future prospects under their stewardship up, to invest in the team. WHAT DO YOU THINK HE IS SAYING?

SHOW ME THE BOOKS ... no not really his jurisdiction.
YOU ARE ROBBING US .... once again libleous.
YOU ARE NOT BUYING PLAYERS THEREFORE YOU ARE 1. NOT INTERESTED IN WINNING ...counterproductive
                                                                                  2. BROKE .. SO WHAT THE F**k HAPPENED

do you understand

Yes, you are finally starting to realise that Rafa never protested the debt...... well done

Why Rafa spoke out the other 3 were happy to stay quiet.  Not a murmur from them

None from Rafa either, not a murmur, nothing. 

I don't think any of those will be claiming their time at Inter was successful either mate, although I am not sure if they lost the dressing room before being sacked?

Obviously a manager that only stays 6 months is not a success, my point was that reading so much into it is just ridiculous, and hypocritical, since we're in the middle of a "give the manager time" debate.

As for Moratti, he's been there for nearly 2 decades and always received strong criticism for his extreme short termism, so it's clearly not only managers fault they're so instable. 

Yes, you are finally starting to realise that Rafa never protested the debt...... well done

I am saying exactly he protested the debt. You are saying that he didn't. See when you lead people to the obvious conclusion like in a courtroom for example, you can't just say he did it your honour. Jury's won't buy that unfortunately. Without the books in front of him to offer as evidence he had to lead people to draw the inescapable  conclusion which he publicly. Everyone I spoke to got it and applauded it.You didn't get it I wonder why.

Obviously a manager that only stays 6 months is not a success, my point was that reading so much into it is just ridiculous, and hypocritical, since we're in the middle of a "give the manager time" debate.

As for Moratti, he's been there for nearly 2 decades and always received strong criticism for his extreme short termism, so it's clearly not only managers fault they're so instable. 

Which perhaps shows what a great achievement it was for that tw*t mourinho ?

Which perhaps shows what a great achievement it was for that tw*t mourinho ?

Mourinho had NO reason to complain. He got everything he wanted didn't he.

I am saying exactly he protested the debt. You are saying that he didn't. See when you lead people to the obvious conclusion like in a courtroom for example, you can't just say he did it your honour. Jury's won't buy that unfortunately. Without the books in front of him to offer as evidence he had to lead people to draw the inescapable  conclusion which he publicly. Everyone I spoke to got it and applauded it.You didn't get it I wonder why.

FFS the club publishes end of year Financial Accounts EVERY F***ing YEAR. To try to claim he didn't know or had no evidence is ridiculous. It was in the F***ing papers every F***ing day, Spanish as well as English. So for 4 years he never read a newspaper, never glanced at a headline