Has the Gerrard/Torres partnership hurt our long term goals?

I noticed something quite odd in the match against man City. Gerrard had a short spell of brilliance and for the most part of the game, it seemed to me like he wasn't really excited playing with the quality of squad he had to play with.

Suddenly:

Torres comes in and I saw a swift change in attitude towards the game. Gerrard started making some daring runs and hot passes even some show-boating passes found their way into his game. All well and good.

My worry is this?

Has the Gerrard/Torres partnership affected Gerrard's game negatively? Has he reconditioned his mind to feed fully, the Torres-partnership at the expense of being the best attacking midfielder in the world?

Every pundit and their grandmothers tend to push the false conclusion that it is the partnership that carries the entire team as the rest of the players are middle-of-the-table class players. Has that play any role in Gerrard's attitude towards the game?

The partnership has also limited inimically, our options upfront. We have come to rely predominantly on the two players playing well; is that good for an long term Liverpool FC plans?

I can remember Alex Ferguson saying at the beginning of this season that our dependence on Gerrard and Torres solely meant we were not a threat this season.

Is there another way forward without asking for a new owner of manager?

Another way forward? How about another forward!

Another way forward? How about another forward!

Just like goal keepers will rather continue to play in the Championship League than get signed to Liverpool FC because of Reina, quality strikers will have the same problem competing with the "Partnership".

Good questions. I have found myself, at times, thinking that Gerrard was noticeably excited when Torres arrived at the club and that this season, since the loss of Alonso and with the absences of Torres, that his attitude has been distinctly suspect.

Sometimes this really annoys me about him, he is the captain after all, but I also sympathise with him. Let's face it, he KNOWS that we are not good enougjh to fulfill his, and our, dream of the title unless we are at full strength and that obviously includes Nando.

So, the answer is that, yes, we are too reliant on Gerrard and Torres but it is not that in itself that has hurt our goals. We just need more and better players to go with them.

Just like goal keepers will rather continue to play in the Championship League than get signed to Liverpool FC because of Reina, quality strikers will have the same problem competing with the "Partnership".

The amount of injuries that Torres and Gerrard get between them, another world class striker, who's less injury prone, would probably get more pitch time than those two.
But the champions league is a good point, if we're not in it, then we might struggle to attract anybody.

The amount of injuries that Torres and Gerrard get between them, another world class striker, who's less injury prone, would probably get more pitch time than those two.
But the champions league is a good point, if we're not in it, then we might struggle to attract anybody.

If only we had owners who were willing to shell out the doh for a world class striker.....

why do i get the feeling that every thread, in some way or another, relates back to twit & tw*t??

f*cking useless good for nothing wan*ers

Good thread. I personally believe the Torres factor has in some way harmed our progress. It's nothing to do with Fernando Torres but mostly to do with Rafa Benitez and the relative cold shouldering of the once good strikers we had at the club like Crouch and co since Fernando joined us. When Torres gets injured - Benitez believes that N'Gog is good enough. That is just not good enough I feel.

put pacheo into the mix liven things up

Good thread. I personally believe the Torres factor has in some way harmed our progress. It's nothing to do with Fernando Torres but mostly to do with Rafa Benitez and the relative cold shouldering of the once good strikers we had at the club like Crouch and co since Fernando joined us. When Torres gets injured - Benitez believes that N'Gog is good enough. That is just not good enough I feel.

Insightful. Good post.

Any reasonable team needs four quality strikers.
Look at Spurs.

Crouchie going from us was a disaster.


No. It hasnt hurt our long terms goals. They are world class and have carried us.
Otherwise we would be a mid table team........which we still just could be unless

...we have four quality strikers.

Crouchie going from us was a disaster.

So was Ian Rush.

Maybe we should imprison players who want to leave?

Any reasonable team needs four quality strikers.
Look at Spurs.

Other than Defoe they aren't really scoring goals though. Crouch only has 5 league goals in 26 games, Keane couldn't even get in the team, Pavlyuchenko hardly plays and Gudjohnson has hardly been a revelation so far.

I have thought of this before.

The Gerrard-Torres partnership worked extremely well in 2007/2008. However, it hasn't looked the same in seasons after that. Gerrard does look disinterested when Torres isn't on the pitch.

I may be wrong but I think it's not effective anymore and Rafa is still continuing to build the team around that partnership.

I have thought of this before.

The Gerrard-Torres partnership worked extremely well in 2007/2008. However, it hasn't looked the same in seasons after that. Gerrard does look disinterested when Torres isn't on the pitch.

I may be wrong but I think it's not effective anymore and Rafa is still continuing to build the team around that partnership.

Good Post.

It s not the presence of Torres and Gerrard in the team that is being questioned here. Any team will be better-off with the two players in the squad. Its the partnership that has limited extremely, our formation and striking option upfront that is being questioned. I dare add that it has also limited our exploits in the market during the transfer windows.

We build the team around the partnership that has been uncoded by every other team; Stop Gerrard-Isolate Torres. Simple. The manager is unwilling to try any other striking partnership. Imagine a Torres/Benayoun, a Torres/Kuyt, or a Torres/Babel, a Torres/Pacheco.

Gerrard has received sticks from a lot of fans on this forum. Surprised how no one has commented on the way his game improved the moment Torres came on. He is more excited to play when torres is there on the pitch. Not good for team spirit and game play.
 

Stop Gerrard-Isolate Torres. Simple.

Err yeah, simple.

Err yeah, simple.

Don't you agree?

Maybe Gerrard likes to play with his buddies?

So if his buddies are Torres, Kuyt and Benayoun, and he started playing with only one buddy then he got excited later on when he had all his buddies together again?

Ok no more quotes from di*khead fergie please!!

I think it is great that Gerrard gets excited when Torres is playing-    man love at its best!

But i agree his head goes down when Torres is not there- but its not only torres-   This season without Benayoun, Johnson- as well as torres, and Mascherano when he gets booked too much!  These are our best players!!  I dont blame him- didnt our heads go down too this season?!

When we have a full squad- i think Gerrard enjoys playing- but with a half-arse squad?!  

Maybe Gerrard likes to play with his buddies?

So if his buddies are Torres, Kuyt and Benayoun, and he started playing with only one buddy then he got excited later on when he had all his buddies together again?

Sounds dirrtyy!

Ok no more quotes from di*khead fergie please!!

I think it is great that Gerrard gets excited when Torres is playing-    man love at its best!

WOW!

- but with a half-arse squad?!   

Sorry?! - Half arse squad

Liverpool FC squad can never be referred to as half arse.

World Class Keeper: Pepe Reina

Defence Line up: Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Kyrgiakos, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kelly, Degen, Insua. - Any team will be excited to boast of this line-up

Midfield: Mascherano, Lucas, Benayoun, Riera, Kuyt, Plessis, Babel, Maxi - Effective for our formation and game play. Brilliant 4 always available

Attackers: Torres, Gerrard, Ngog, Pacheco - A good line up

This squad can hardly be called half arse . Even when you take out the people in bold, you still have a strong squad.

Good post.

I think it must be difficult for Gerrard. We were so close last year with a stronger squad and less injury worries. In his own mind he must have been looking forward to building on last year and fulfilling his dream of winning trophies with Liverpool.

Now jump to this year. Alonso gone... Torres, Johnson, Benayoun, Mascherano all out for spells. Sometimes he must have looked around this year and felt a world away from the quality team he was in last year. It wouldn't be unreasonable for him to think at some point that the team had peaked.

That alone would be enough at his age to dishearten him. He has carried us enough times to expect to see people around him that could do the same. At times this year without the aforementioned it would be very easy for him to have doubts.

Hopefully with Torres and Benayoun back and seeing Pacheco, Aquilani, Johnson and Kelly in training reinstalls his believe in where the club is heading and helps him get back to what he does best. Bossing a football game.

For the record though I would like to see him drop back to midfield for the remainder of the season with Aquilani/Pacheco in the hole
Reckon Torres/Pacheco is the pairing teams will have nightmares about next year.

What it has done it has made us very predictable.
I would prefer the 4-1-3-2 formation as of the 4-2-3-1.
Torres needs support up front.

Who wouldn't get excited when the world's best striker comes on for your team?

Id like to see a rotating line of three attackers in behind Torres with Gerrard in midfield with Mascherano.
Would make it much harder for teams to just pick up people and stop us playing... ala Alonso Gerrard