"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

I see we are now getting the " I love Stevie but " posts a bit like the " I love Kenny" posts as I remember.
If he is good enough he should play if he isn't he shouldn't why is that even a question.

Such posts are inevitable at some point unless we intend playing the captain until he's 58 years old. I pointed out in my post that we don't have a replacement for what he offers, and that I would play him in my first team. I've simply made the point that at the moment I'd not play him sitting in front of the back four, and I'd take him off in games once he gets knackered.

I see we are now getting the " I love Stevie but " posts a bit like the " I love Kenny" posts as I remember.
If he is good enough he should play if he isn't he shouldn't why is that even a question.

For now I'd take him out.

He can't play as a DM and we leak soft goals because of it. He doesn't offer us anything going forward because there are no options ahead of him.

The one option he has is play it to Balotellis feet who is standing somewhere 20 yards from goal not in the box.

As soon as we get two decent forwards who have pace, move and can finish then he goes straight back in and we'll just outscore teams again. Not many can pass a ball like Steven.

As soon as Danny comes back in we'll see far better performances from him. I have no doubt about that.

Such posts are inevitable at some point unless we intend playing the captain until he's 58 years old. I pointed out in my post that we don't have a replacement for what he offers, and that I would play him in my first team. I've simply made the point that at the moment I'd not play him sitting in front of the back four, and I'd take him off in games once he gets knackered.

they are only inevitable whilst the manager dithers as to his presence in the team. It was Brendan who sold the world on how Stevie could play until he was 40. One thing Stevie has never been is a defensive player even when he played full back he was hardly in his own half.Play him in his natural position and play him on merit only why is that so hard for Brendan to do

they are only inevitable whilst the manager dithers as to his presence in the team. It was Brendan who sold the world on how Stevie could play until he was 40. One thing Stevie has never been is a defensive player even when he played full back he was hardly in his own half.Play him in his natural position and play him on merit only why is that so hard for Brendan to do

Because he would last about half an hour - which means either pulling him off in the first half or putting him on with the match mostly decided - either of which option would cause Stevie to settle into one of his famous sulks, if not leave the club, whilst simultanbeously prompting reds like you to be jumping up and down and moaning about why we weren't playing "Stevie the Lege" every time we failed to win.

That's why.

Because he would last about half an hour - which means either pulling him off in the first half or putting him on with the match mostly decided - either of which option would cause Stevie to settle into one of his famous sulks, if not leave the club, whilst simultanbeously prompting reds like you to be jumping up and down and moaning about why we weren't playing "Stevie the Lege" every time we failed to win.

That's why.

It's an interesting point of view. I don't think only having Stevie on while he was actually fit enough to do himself justice would mean him only lasting half an hour (I don't know if you're being serious or not but if you are, I disagree). I DO think playing him at the base of the diamond or as a defensive midfielder, whilst we are so toothless up front/never run in behind is pointless however. It's pointless whether we play him for half an hour or whether we play him for the full match. Playing the role he is playing now (which is essentially as a defensive midfielder without the defence splitting passes as there's nobody to hit) means he is essentially doing the same job as a Matic, only absolutely nowhere near as good. Stevie is unable to rampage around the pitch while still doing his defensive duties like the Chelsea man, nor is he as able defensively.

Now, given our captain is performing so poorly (by his own standards admittedly) it is impossible to pretend that neither Lucas or Can could perform equally as well in the role. Arguably, you could even make the case for either or both performing the role better right now. When all that is considered, it makes perfect sense to me to move the captain into an area where he will have a greater impact upon the game. Yes, there is danger that he won't be able to play every minute of every match he wants to, but he WILL have a greater positive impact upon the team.

The "Stevie the Lege" comments I'd put in the same bracket as "Reds like you jumping up and down" and "one of his famous sulks". Those are examples of you being a little bit silly. 

Because he would last about half an hour - which means either pulling him off in the first half or putting him on with the match mostly decided - either of which option would cause Stevie to settle into one of his famous sulks, if not leave the club, whilst simultanbeously prompting reds like you to be jumping up and down and moaning about why we weren't playing "Stevie the Lege" every time we failed to win.

That's why.

oh dear dear dear

Now that Sturridge is literally about to return, dropping the captain would be a particularly dopey tactic at this point.

Woah.
Isn't Stevie to blame for everything according the gospel of Hollywood Balls ?
Its called crucifixion.

I think besides delusion you have short term memory loss from one post to another and one thread to another.
Its called consistency.

It's an interesting point of view. I don't think only having Stevie on while he was actually fit enough to do himself justice would mean him only lasting half an hour (I don't know if you're being serious or not but if you are, I disagree). I DO think playing him at the base of the diamond or as a defensive midfielder, whilst we are so toothless up front/never run in behind is pointless however. It's pointless whether we play him for half an hour or whether we play him for the full match. Playing the role he is playing now (which is essentially as a defensive midfielder without the defence splitting passes as there's nobody to hit) means he is essentially doing the same job as a Matic, only absolutely nowhere near as good. Stevie is unable to rampage around the pitch while still doing his defensive duties like the Chelsea man, nor is he is able defensively.

Now, given our captain is performing so poorly (by his own standards admittedly) it is impossible to pretend that either Lucas or Can could perform equally as well in the role. Arguably, you could even make the case for either or both performing the role better right now. When all that is considered, it makes perfect sense to me to move the captain into an area where he will have a greater impact upon the game. Yes, there is danger that he won't be able to play every minute of every match he wants to, but he WILL have a greater positive impact upon the team.

The "Stevie the Lege" comments I'd put in the same bracket as "Reds like you jumping up and down" and "one of his famous sulks". Those are examples of you being a little bit silly.

I disagree it's silly. If we were to lose a match and Stevie was on the bench are you seriously saying that there would not be immense pressure from the fans - and media - and ex players to put him back in the team?

As far as i've seen from his appearances he is able to physically exert himself for about 20-30 minutes at attack pace before he starts running out of puff - it's a function of his age - winning and recovering from high intensity sprints against 18 year old athletes is not an easy task for him.

I agree that playing at the base of the diamond has not been working recently but that's mainly because he has not had the runners ahead of him to use his range. It seemed to work last season so let's hope Daniel's return sees a resurgence in our form.

Woah.
Isn't Stevie to blame for everything according the gospel of Hollywood Balls ?
Its called crucifixion.

I think besides delusion you have short term memory loss from one post to another and one thread to another.
Its called consistency.

No - you just aren't thinking very hard.

Stevie clearly has deficincies in his game - large ones - nevertheless if he can produce enough goals / assists / leadership then it's worth finding a place in the team for him since those deficiencies will be outweighed.

Last year, with Sturridge and Suarez ahead of him that was the case - so it makes sense to see if it will be the case again now that Sturridge has returned - certainly it would be more intelligent than dropping him before we know the answer to that question.

I disagree it's silly. If we were to lose a match and Stevie was on the bench are you seriously saying that there would not be immense pressure from the fans - and media - and ex players to put him back in the team?

As far as i've seen from his appearances he is able to physically exert himself for about 20-30 minutes at attack pace before he starts running out of puff - it's a function of his age - winning and recovering from high intensity sprints against 18 year old athletes is not an easy task for him.

I agree that playing at the base of the diamond has not been working recently but that's mainly because he has not had the runners ahead of him to use his range. It seemed to work last season so let's hope Daniel's return sees a resurgence in our form.

It worked last year because he had the freedom and time to do it. This year the opposition managers have realised its easy to negate Gerrard by sticking a player on him. Alas Stevie does not have the quick feet to escape that trap.

It worked last year because he had the freedom and time to do it. This year the opposition managers have realised its easy to negate Gerrard by sticking a player on him. Alas Stevie does not have the quick feet to escape that trap.

I think it's less to do with quick feet and more to do with where he's looking.
He got caught by surprise at the start of the season, because he was looking upfield for a long pass and just caught the closing player in his peripheral vision.
His first look now is to see if a player is closing him down, and that split second gives the opposition time to block or negate the runs that players are making, so that when he does go to the side and tries to hit a long pass, it's cut out most of the time.
It's really not his fault, BR has to find a way of creating space and time for him if he insists on using him in that role, time and space being two of the most precious commodities on the pitch.
So far he's tried to use a 2 there, but it's not really working.
He's also had one FB push into midfield, and the other FB tuck in to make a back 3 with Gerrard in front, but that's not working either.
Perhaps a Rafa style 4231 is the way to go, but I'm sure BR has tried this as well, although I may be mistaken.

If he is good enough he should play if he isn't he shouldn't why is that even a question.

I think people question it Walt because they feel Stevie hasn't been good enough to warrant playing so much this season and have doubts that the manager will drop him.

Why is it this topic always comes to the surface when we aren't getting good results? We win and he plays well and there isn't a peep from anyone in here.

Gerrard is the least of our problems because although he isn't playing well I am more concerned at the moment about the clown we have playing at Right Back, the £20million muppet at CB, a keeper that is terrified of his own shadow and a useless waste of money playing up front and I use the term playing lightly because he spends most his time walking along the sideline.

Gerrard isn't playing well, we know that and he knows that but only a couple at most are playing well and to be honest I don't think he is being used right by Rodgers, Gerrard was always better in the opponents half higher up the pitch so have him up there, he wont be able to do it every game now but he'll probably be a lot more of an influence further up the pitch than he is in a holding role. I thought Joe Allen was supposed to basically be the deep lying playmaker what with being the ""Welsh Xavi" and all that.

Gerrard isn't playing well, we know that and he knows that but only a couple at most are playing well and to be honest I don't think he is being used right by Rodgers, Gerrard was always better in the opponents half higher up the pitch so have him up there, he wont be able to do it every game now but he'll probably be a lot more of an influence further up the pitch than he is in a holding role

I think this is a big part of the debate mate.

I have a gut feeling that both Gerrard and Brendan have decided that Gerrard is the player to play that deep lying role and that he won't ever really play further forward for us again.

I think this is a big part of the debate mate.

I have a gut feeling that both Gerrard and Brendan have decided that Gerrard is the player to play that deep lying role and that he won't ever really play further forward for us again.

I can't remember who it was against this season but Gerrard played further up the pitch and looked so much more dangerous, surely Rodgers can see that Gerrard can still offer us a threat in the opponents half. To me it almost seems as though that position further back is almost being forced on to Gerrard.

Rafa said Gerrard could finish his career as a striker and I could see it at the time and I still can, he's spent his whole career bombing into the opponents box on to a loose ball, having freedom of their half to rifle a shot in or play a killer ball but now it seems like he isn't even allowed to shoot. There has been times in the last 18months or so when the ball has fallen to Gerrard from distance and I have thought that he is going to totally leather it at goal like he has for so much of his career but at the last minute it's almost come across in his mind that he isn't out there to do that now, now he will take a touch and pass it off.

When was the last time Gerrard scored in open play?

I can't remember who it was against this season but Gerrard played further up the pitch and looked so much more dangerous, surely Rodgers can see that Gerrard can still offer us a threat in the opponents half. To me it almost seems as though that position further back is almost being forced on to Gerrard.

QPR was it?

I disagree, and as I say it's only a gut feeling, but  I think Gerrard wants to play the deep role and if anything I think he may have convinced Brendan that's where he would be best used.

QPR was it?

I disagree, and as I say it's only a gut feeling, but  I think Gerrard wants to play the deep role and if anything I think he may have convinced Brendan that's where he would be best used.

I honestly can't remember mate.

I don't know if Rodgers is forcing that position on him or if Gerrard said to Rodgers about it but to me I think it's like trying to get a square peg in a round hole half the time. Just isn't all that effective.

I honestly can't remember mate.

I don't know if Rodgers is forcing that position on him or if Gerrard said to Rodgers about it but to me I think it's like trying to get a square peg in a round hole half the time. Just isn't all that effective.

I think it can be effective  and was for large parts of the run in last season.

It hasn't this season though, for the most part, and that is why I get annoyed that Brendan just keeps sending Gerrard out there in that role when it could be argued our midfield looked it's best this season when he hasn't played.

I agree when people say Gerrard isn't our only problem this season and maybe not the 'biggest' problem but on the flipside I don't agree that his form this season merits he plays as much as he has done and I just get a feeling that Brendan picks Gerrard without giving much of a secoond thought to how he has actually performed.

My criticism of him as a captain may seem unfair, but I really do think that as a captain he needs to be much more vocal now that his ability to lead by example is declining.

I'm sorry mate but I think this is just silly I really do. Gerrard isn't quite the player he used to be so he should shout more to make up for it seems to be the jist of what you are saying. What do us fans really know about Gerrard's leadership qualities? We only see glimpses and clips. We don't know what he says in the dressing room before the match, at half-time, after the game, at the training ground, what he says ti the younger players etc. How do you really make a judgement about something that is so subjective and not particularly tangible? I mean how do you measure it? It's not really tangible is it? Gerrard was a great leader last season but is doing a lousy job this year? How can anyone really tell? they can't.

Why is it this topic always comes to the surface when we aren't getting good results? We win and he plays well and there isn't a peep from anyone in here.

Don't worry i'll be back in her shouting told you so the minute the skipper finds some form again!

It worked last year because he had the freedom and time to do it. This year the opposition managers have realised its easy to negate Gerrard by sticking a player on him. Alas Stevie does not have the quick feet to escape that trap.

I agree with that; I think last year it was harder to find players to exploit Gerrard because they were already doubling up on Suarez / Sterling/ Sturridge.

I think people question it Walt because they feel Stevie hasn't been good enough to warrant playing so much this season and have doubts that the manager will drop him.

and its why I keep on referring people back to the Brendan thread stevie doesn't pick the team or the tactics.

and its why I keep on referring people back to the Brendan thread stevie doesn't pick the team or the tactics.

To be fair though a lot of the debate in here is about how the manager uses Gerrard so I'm not sure what the problem is?