Johnson or Kelly

Skrtel is faster than Agger, why does everyone think the opposite.

Maybe down to Daniel having better positional sense and it not showing up.

Maybe down to Daniel having better positional sense and it not showing up.

Then say that instead of bullshitting that Skrtel is slow.  He's our quickest defender after Johnson which is a problem in itself.  Same way it bugs me when people say we need to get rid of the Greek because he's too old, too slow and too prone to mistakes.  If you say that about Soto, then it applies equally to Carra because Carra is slower, older and prone to just as many mistakes.

a wind up merchant

You're very wrong if you think that.

Oh I think it and quite a few others on here do as well reds, still stunned anyone posted a Jamie Kanwar article.

The man that thought Rafa was useless, Hodgson was great, thought Hicks and Gillette done nothing wrong and thought the problem is the Liverpool fans themselves. People should research people before they post there articles

Then say that instead of bullshitting that Skrtel is slow.  He's our quickest defender after Johnson which is a problem in itself.  Same way it bugs me when people say we need to get rid of the Greek because he's too old, too slow and too prone to mistakes.  If you say that about Soto, then it applies equally to Carra because Carra is slower, older and prone to just as many mistakes.

Agree with Cara and Soto but when did I say Skrtel was to slow?

Agree with Cara and Soto but when did I say Skrtel was to slow?

Good point, sorry about that.  It did look like it was aimed at you when it wasn't.  What I should have said was "Then they should say that..."

Agger is quicker than Skrtel mate, honestly.

Oh and Kelly is quicker aswell, easily.

Skrtel is obviously quicker than Agger but Agger reads the game better, pace is not something Agger has in abundance

Agger is quicker than Skrtel mate, honestly.

Keep an eye on them when they're both furiously chasing a ball/player back.  You'll be surprised, Skrtel is deceptively fast for a tall guy.

Oh and Kelly is quicker aswell, easily.

I'd say Kelly is def quicker than Agger but I'm not 100% convinced about him being quicker than Skrtel, it could well be the case, but I won't argue that point.  I will however dispute the Agger vs Skrtel speed case though, Skrtel is easily quicker.  Now before someone tries to say "Hyypia was slow and he was still tops", I know this.  Pace isn't everything, positioning isn't everything either.  I rate them both equally.

edit: Amazing how we all got so sidetracked discussing the speed of both Agger/Skrtel in a Johnson/Kelly thread, we're bad.

I think Kelly is as quick over a longer distance than Johnson, Glen quicker over shorter distance though.

And yep back on topic 

Skrtel is faster than Agger, but is no where near the same quality of player. Sadly as Agger is apparently made of glass we get to see just how much better he is all too infrequently.

I don't expect Kelly to now make the switch to Centre back, but to establish himself as a fullback. He has too many problems competing in the air to make it at Centre back imo.   

I think Kelly is as quick over a longer distance than Johnson, Glen quicker over shorter distance though.

And yep back on topic 

Nice one.

Skrtel is faster than Agger, but is no where near the same quality of player. Sadly as Agger is apparently made of glass we get to see just how much better he is all too infrequently.

I don't expect Kelly to now make the switch to Centre back, but to establish himself as a fullback. He has too many problems competing in the air to make it at Centre back imo.   

In an interview with Kelly, he said he now considers himself a RB.  I think he will "do a Carra" in time, utility fullback (but mainly played on the right) for another season or two, then become a utility defender (CB/RB/LB) and eventually make the switch to a full-time CB when he's starting to peak, but that's just my take on it all - I could be horribly wrong.

I'm surprised so many on here think he's ready for the switch to CB so soon.  I believe Ayala is the closest of the young CBs (Ayala/Wilson/Kelly/Wisdom) to making the breakthrough into the first squad in the CB position. Not very many people picked up Kelly's problems in the air before yesterday.  In my personal ideal world we'd bring in an attacking fullback in the mold of Coentrao/Wendt/Schennikov and play:

Johnson Skrtel Agger New LB - in the majority of fixtures when we can afford the additional 'bombing forwardness' and;
Kelly Skrtel Agger Johnson - in the majority of fixtures when we're looking for the additional stability.

Thankfully Dalglish has solved the problem by playing both of them and getting more out of both too. If I was to be critical I would say that Kelly's heading is a worry, especially if he is ever to make the switch to CENTRE BACK. The number of times he doesn't jump when supposedly challenging for a ball in the air ......... I don't expect him to win every header, but he needs to make a challenge and jump with his opponent to put him off.

As you can see I didn't start criticising Kelly's heading ability just yesterday mate.

As you can see I didn't start criticising Kelly's heading ability just yesterday mate.

I did say "not very many" of which you're obviously in that category   I've yet to see him absolutely dominate a game aerially especially worrying as he would generally be up against opposition LW the majority of the time.

Kelly is our best RB. It's just that we have Glen Johnson as well. I wouldn't mind either at RB, it's just the fact that you have 2 great players in one position. If I had to absolutely choose between one, I would pick Kelly in a heartbeat. He is great defensively and supports the attack well and is very young.

Would play Kelly away from home against the top 5 and against sides like Birmingham and Stoke.

Would play Johnson in home games and certain away games where we should be picking up 3 points.

I'd like to see Kelly in the middle next to Agger though. Carras passed it for me, skrtel is too inconsistent and I don't rate sotis at all.

We can't start pissing about with certain full backs for this game and others for that game. Every great club builds from the back, that requires a settled defence.

Whether that's Kelly or Johnson is up to Kenny - personally I'd go for Kelly - but we can't be chopping and changing the back line. That needs to be regular if we're ever to be successful.

We can't start pissing about with certain full backs for this game and others for that game. Every great club builds from the back, that requires a settled defence.

Whether that's Kelly or Johnson is up to Kenny - personally I'd go for Kelly - but we can't be chopping and changing the back line. That needs to be regular if we're ever to be successful.

Agreed. We've hit best form in recent seasons when we've had a settled back 4.

Can be hard when you get that back 4 sorted and then 1 or 2 of them get injured, though.

Agreed. We've hit best form in recent seasons when we've had a settled back 4.

Can be hard when you get that back 4 sorted and then 1 or 2 of them get injured, though.

Injuries are part of the game, I can accept changing the defence then because you have no choice. Changing it just because of the opposition or the venue or what have you, is totally wrong.

I agree, providing your back 4 are all consistent and can do a bit of everything, defend, attack and most of all work well as a unit.

I do think people over exagerate when it comes to johnsons discipline/concentration/poor defending whatever you want to call it but he still isn't the best either. Prone to making mistakes far too often.

Kelly is a young lad with no experience who in my opinion will burn out if he is given 38 games a season ahead of johnson next year. We also risk losing johnson who won't be happy sitting on the bench, but his attacking skills are certainly an asset to us so its something we can't do.

For those reasons, a bit of swop and changing here and there between the two wouldn't harm us IMO.

I agree, providing your back 4 are all consistent and can do a bit of everything, defend, attack and most of all work well as a unit.

I do think people over exagerate when it comes to johnsons discipline/concentration/poor defending whatever you want to call it but he still isn't the best either. Prone to making mistakes far too often.

Kelly is a young lad with no experience who in my opinion will burn out if he is given 38 games a season ahead of johnson next year. We also risk losing johnson who won't be happy sitting on the bench, but his attacking skills are certainly an asset to us so its something we can't do.

For those reasons, a bit of swop and changing here and there between the two wouldn't harm us IMO.

I do think people over exaggerate Johnson's defensive frailities at times, blaming him for things that aren't his fault - same way people have blamed Kelly for things that aren't his fault either. But unfortunately, for Johnson anyway, his problems are shown up much more because they're more regular and for a vastly overpriced fee - he comes in for scrutiny much more because expectation is much higher.

As for Kelly burning out - really irriates me that argument. These super fit human beings can't last less than 3500 League minutes over the course of 9 months, then there's serious trouble. If they weren't F***ing off to endorse some brand new product or release a new book or do some new interview and instead focused solely on football then maybe they could last a League season out. Also, there's so many breaks that players get now (internationals, cup games, rearranged fixtures) that there's no reason players - no matter what age - can't last 38 League games. Plus if they are struggling, there's a rule called substitutions where you can bring a tired player off and replace him with a fresh player.

If Johnson is unhappy about being on the bench, tough sh*t. It's up to him to prove his worth in training and force Kenny to pick him. Same way it is for Kelly if it's Johnson who gets the nod. And if there's a drop in form/injury/suspension to one who is selected then it's up to the under study to take their chance and make them undroppable - pretty much what Kelly did this year before his injury. Got the chance, took it so well that he was almost a certainty to start the following game.

And I still believe swapping our back line is gonna harm us more than benefit us. Defenders need to get to know one another on the pitch, know when the centre halves are gonna step up so they're not playing everyone on side. We need a settled back line, that's how a successful club builds up - from the back.

Get the back four sorted so you have a platform on which to build. We already have a top quality keeper, providing we can keep him this summer, and with a little bit of tweaking we can have a great defence. That's the start of this side being built into League champions.

Kellys suffered from serious injuries in the past, ones which almost finished him and he's never experienced playing week in week out before.

Look at young Insua. Same happened to him. Came into the team during the second half of the season when we were chasing the title and he was immense, the lad was absolutely brilliant.

The following season he was absolutely awful and that's because he was playing twice a week and just couldn't cope with the physical demand and the pressure.

In my opinion, Kelly would experience the same at right back. I reckon he'd burn out.

As mentioned earlier, Id like to see Johnson play the vast majority of the season but in certain games where we need more of a physical presence and just solid defending basically then id put Kelly in who hasn't let us down so far in those sort of games.

Having the attitude 'we can only play 4 defenders a season' is daft IMO. Its close to impossible to do that in modern day football. Eventually your going to have to swop it and change it around a little.

Im not saying lets go with a new back 4 every week, but there are certain fixtures which suit Kelly far better and other fixtures which suit Johnson far better. It makes sense if we play to their strengths.