Wages

As everyone knows we are paying too much in wages for the level of achievement that the squad has been producing.

FSG have been trying to rectify this imbalance by reducing the wage bill, taking out some of the older players and players who are perhaps not seen as making a sufficient contribution to the team.

Their idea seems to be that you can't pay CL WAGES and have a CL size squad when you are not getting CL. Sounds reasonable? The problem with this idea is that it is a self defeating policy, UNLESS you pay for top quality players and a reasonably large squad with adequate cover you are very unlikely to get CL.

So you finish up with a poor squad, your players with ambition leave, the replacements are of a lower quality or young players needing time to develop, and your lack of ambition and quality leads to further disappointments in the league. Mid- table finishes become the norm rather than the exception and the club then accepts and gears their budget accordingly.

Liverpool's budget has been based on qualifying for the CL since Houllier, which ment pressure on our managers to achieve, but with the knowledge that they would be adequately supported with funds to achieve their goals. Now our budget seems to be leaning more towards the safety of not gambling on our qualifying for CL, but happy in the knowledge that a small wage bill and small squad will allay any negative financial effects of such failure. 

Maybe they believe it is cheaper and more cost effective in the short term to concentrate on commercial success rather than success on the field, but my fear is that acceptance of failure or perhaps just reduced expectation and ambition will lead sooner or later to commercial failure.

I have no doubt that there is an enormous amount of slack that can be taken up, I have no problem with older players or players who aren't giving us value for money leaving, my problem is that these players must be replaced with better, younger players who will give us value for money, not just cheap squad fillers and journeymen if they are even replaced at all.

Budget for success, demand success, support the team and manager and we may just get it. Budget for failure and we
may just get that instead.

Yes there is still a month of the transfer window open and still time to bring in the quality we need, and maybe I am reading the signs wrongly, but if I am not, I think it may be a long time before CL football never mind the title returns to Anfield.   

Good post saint bet we are the only fans talking about wages at this stage of season. First h+g and now fsg have made financial experts out of all of us.

Borini,Dempsey and Allen or Barnes,Beardsley and Aldo spot the difference.

BBA or BDA its the D

Yeh its been a major concern of mine over the last few windows. Not supporting kenny in january meant to me they gambled on us not getting 4th and sure enough we didnt..

Vicious circle

Yeh its been a major concern of mine over the last few windows. Not supporting kenny in january meant to me they gambled on us not getting 4th and sure enough we didnt..

Vicious circle

Pretty sure Kenny said he was happy with what he had in January so unless he was lying difficult to lay the blame on that one on FSG.

Just to play devils advocate here but.

If any of us were aksed our top 5 who'd leave Liverpool this summer, the 4 that have gone would have been on most peoples lists (not saying they wanted them to go, just most likely)

Now every summer clubs buy and sell players.

We've sold or released 4.

Now let's presume of them 4 we saved £16m in wages.

Now let's presume we sign 4 players on £4m a year, then the wage bill remains the same no ?

Now let's look at last season, Maxi rarely featured nor did Aurelio, Aquilani never featured and Kuyts form was hit and miss.

So out the four we had one player who featured quite regularly but even he was in and out of the side.

So If we sign 4 players who take up the 16 million or so wages and they have a good impact on the squad, that's got to be better than the wages we were paying out for thos made little or no impact last season no ?

Let the window close and be as critical as you like about wages etc, but until it does we could pull a few rabbits out of our hats yet.

If it is true that FSG are trying to get our wage bill down to 2.5 mil a week, the same as Villa, it is worrying. From a suuporter point of view, it is worrying that they would rather see us over-achieve on a smaller budget than under-achieve on a larger budget. From a business point of view it makes sense. The past 3 seasons we have been a mid-table side, as hard as it is to say, but it's true as it is where we have finished.We might think we deserved more but the table doesn't lie

Perhaps it might take a few years of sustained Europa League income, as little as it is compared to Champions League money, before FSG are prepared to go high on wages again. 

Just to play devils advocate here but.

If any of us were aksed our top 5 who'd leave Liverpool this summer, the 4 that have gone would have been on most peoples lists (not saying they wanted them to go, just most likely)

Now every summer clubs buy and sell players.

We've sold or released 4.

Now let's presume of them 4 we saved £16m in wages.

Now let's presume we sign 4 players on £4m a year, then the wage bill remains the same no ?

Now let's look at last season, Maxi rarely featured nor did Aurelio, Aquilani never featured and Kuyts form was hit and miss.

So out the four we had one player who featured quite regularly but even he was in and out of the side.

So If we sign 4 players who take up the 16 million or so wages and they have a good impact on the squad, that's got to be better than the wages we were paying out for thos made little or no impact last season no ?

Let the window close and be as critical as you like about wages etc, but until it does we could pull a few rabbits out of our hats yet.

Yes mate, agree with this for now.

Can't blame supporters for feeling a little bit paranoid and worried though.

Massive Summer for us but there is still a month to go.

If it is true that FSG are trying to get our wage bill down to 2.5 mil a week

I'm not having a go LL but where did you hear about this figure?

I haven't read any figure put on it but I might have missed it.

Also the lads on Anfield Wrap were talking the other night that it is more that FSG want better value from the wages spent and not necessarily cutting the wage bill, although I'm sure they wouldn't mind if it was trimmed a bit.

I don't mind as much if its players who are unlikely to feature much like Aurelio and Maxi as the players Brendan buys to replace them are likely to be ones he will use.

I'm not having a to LL but where did you hear about this figure?

Think it was a post from Saint a few weeks back, maybe in the FSG thread? He might be better suited to ask.

Pretty sure it saud that FSG want to get the bill down from 3.1m to 2.5m.

 Totally agree S@int, and though it hasn't been officially admitted it looks to me like our manager is not only being asked to sell before he can buy, but he's been asked to make a NET profit in terms of expenditure on wages and fees. Not easy for anyone, and for a fella like Brendan who has got his first big job AND wants to impart a new and more expansive playing style, it's even more difficult.

 By my reckoning, so far we've saved these wages (and obviously I don't know what the players get paid exactly, it's a guess).

 Aquilani- 5 mill a year (about 100K a week).

 Maxi- 4 mill a year (about 80K a week).

 Kuyt- 4 mill a year (about 80K per week).

 Aurelio- 3 mill a year (about 60K per week).


 So it would be my guess that we saved ourselves about 16 million quid in wages. I think Carroll will be sold, and for him you are talking about another 4 mill a year. I also think it quite possible that Adam will be sold, and he's probably on the same money as Aurelio was. If those two came to pass we'd have saved 23 million quid, plus we'll get a fee of around 17-20 mill for Carroll. That would leave us 40 million quid or so better off (obviously not counting next seasons savings as well).

 So far we've bought Borini for 10 mill (and my guess is he'll be on about 50K per week, 2.5 mill per season) and we're going to buy Allen for 13 or so (and he'll be on the same money). We can buy Dempsey for 8 mill and pay him 70K per week and that'll cost us around 39.5 mill total. This in my view is the FSG mantra being played out right before our eyes. When Stevie G and Carra get towards the end of their current deals, there won't be any more huge money contracts. Arguably it's the sensible way to run a football club, but in my view what can't be argued with is that it makes competing with the massive spenders at the top of the league a fantasy in all honesty.     

I'm not having a go LL but where did you hear about this figure?

I haven't read any figure put on it but I might have missed it.

Also the lads on Anfield Wrap were talking the other night that it is more that FSG want better value from the wages spent and not necessarily cutting the wage bill, although I'm sure they wouldn't mind if it was trimmed a bit.

I don't mind as much if its players who are unlikely to feature much like Aurelio and Maxi as the players Brendan buys to replace them are likely to be ones he will use.

It was an article posted originally by Kenny and written by Rory Smith that Liverpool want to reduce their wage bill by £500k per week.

I then posted a list of top clubs wage bills. Liverpool's wage bill was £3.1 million, Villa's was £2.5million. So I said it would be taking our wage bill almost on to the same level as Villa's.

Nesv/FSG thread pages 150 and 151. You did comment in the thread at the time mate, you must have just forgotten.   

Nesv/FSG thread pages 150 and 151. You did comment in the thread at the time mate, you must have just forgotten.   

Cheers Saint.

I've been busy as hell in work all summer so I've obviously forgotton reading and commenting on that.

Just to play devils advocate here but.

If any of us were aksed our top 5 who'd leave Liverpool this summer, the 4 that have gone would have been on most peoples lists (not saying they wanted them to go, just most likely)

Now every summer clubs buy and sell players.

We've sold or released 4.

Now let's presume of them 4 we saved £16m in wages.

Now let's presume we sign 4 players on £4m a year, then the wage bill remains the same no ?

Now let's look at last season, Maxi rarely featured nor did Aurelio, Aquilani never featured and Kuyts form was hit and miss.

So out the four we had one player who featured quite regularly but even he was in and out of the side.

So If we sign 4 players who take up the 16 million or so wages and they have a good impact on the squad, that's got to be better than the wages we were paying out for thos made little or no impact last season no ?

Let the window close and be as critical as you like about wages etc, but until it does we could pull a few rabbits out of our hats yet.

Stop talking sense you.

Selling assets and not replacing them is called asset stripping.
So far we have not replaced the players who have left and the one coming in will not be on 80k a week.
Wake up and see what is happening.The costs reduction is their major plan for success how is that so hard to see.

I understand the scepticism, I do, but really, It's not like FSG came in and said they were going to throw tons of money into the club.  They said that what was made would be spent.  Having said that, there is still time to do so.

If the window goes by and Borini and Allen are the only incoming players than I'll be fully on board with getting on the firewagon.  As of now, I'll still give it a bit of time (not much as it's only three weeks). 

Going back to Saint's post and talking about spending CL wages and not being in the CL, well, It's pretty clear we've been spending Cl wages and for our money have ended up well out of it for a few years now.  So a complete rebuild to get back up there isn't the worst idea is it?  It might cause alot of infighting amongst fans and silly "Yanks Out" banners won't do anything.  This may be a long process.  A proces that may not sit well with many. 


Now I'm going to ruffle some feathers.

Many on forums tout the SOS movement as being a big part of getting Hicks and Gillette out.  And their contributions were felt.  To a point.  But in the end it was their financial situation that made them have to leave the club.  Not protests.  Not signs and banners.  It was down to money due to the debt.  FSG are not in that situation.  There isn't any debt (worthwhile) to speak of.  So therefore there are only two routes for the bit of unhappiness towards the owners can go. 

1)  Allow them to go along with their plan and see where things go for another year.

2) Start protesting and moaning at an owner who has no FINANCIAL reason to get out of the club, and further alienate the owners, therefore completely F***ing over any chance at them ever spending any money.

Do I think Borini and possibly Allen will be our only signings this summer ?

No I don't so I won't be getting my knickers in a twist until its been proven otherwise.

Do I think Borini and possibly Allen will be our only signings this summer ?

No I don't so I won't be getting my knickers in a twist until its been proven otherwise.

Same here.

It's a good thread but full of 'if's' at the moment.

It might go mad in this one come the end of the transfer window though.

We don't know whos coming in, we don't know how many are coming in and we don't know what those coming in will be earning.

Selling assets and not replacing them is called asset stripping.

How about giving them the chance to replace them first though? A football club isn't a revolving door, one player doesn't simply walk out the door of Melwood and immediately a new player signs on the dotted line. Rodgers has stated numerous times there is hard work going on behind the scenes to bring players in, and I tend to believe him, but deals don't happen overnight.

Im prepared to wait 27 days before reaching for my pitchfork and joining in the hunt. Surely not too outrageous is it?

Selling assets and not replacing them is called asset stripping.
So far we have not replaced the players who have left and the one coming in will not be on 80k a week.
Wake up and see what is happening.The costs reduction is their major plan for success how is that so hard to see.

A bold statement.

3 1st team players out and 1 in as I understand it. (3 other squad players have gone too.)

Kuyt, (32), had become a bit part player, and although I liked him he was getting on, and was very slow.
Maxi, (31), another bit part player & wanted to go.
Aquilani, (28), was never here, & wanted to go.

So not really asset striping is it?

A bold statement.

3 1st team players out and 1 in as I understand it. (3 other squad players have gone too.)

Kuyt, (32), had become a bit part player, and although I liked him he was getting on, and was very slow.
Maxi, (31), another bit part player & wanted to go.
Aquilani, (28), was never here, & wanted to go.

So not really asset striping is it?

Don't ruin agendas by rationalizing!!!

You forgot Aurelio Puppy, not hard really considering he spent more time on the treatment table than on the field

Its been a weird transfer window for sure, its like a feeding frenzy in here at times.

Never known it be like this, even level headed rational posters are losing their cool.