Before we sack the manager, how will we be off in two seasons time?

Top post mate and I have a sneaking feeling that Sterling in particular is going to have his devotion to our cause  tested before too much longer.

Would that be down to him being singled out twice by Rodgers in the documentry Mick or a more money being on offer elsewere.

Would that be down to him being singled out twice by Rodgers in the documentry Mick or a more money being on offer elsewere.

 Second one mate, and also that rumour has it that he misses his Lahnden and wants to come back.

Second one mate, and also that rumour has it that he misses his Lahnden and wants to come back.

Spuds rumour may have some weight to it then.

Rodgers told a pre-Newcastle press conference:

"We'll have funds.
I'm in talks with the owners at the moment along with our recruitment team.
We know we need to reinforce the group, so that's something that is ongoing.

Probably cost us a few million quid that comment.

I hope Chang doesn't get to read that or Brendan's letter box will need sh*t proofed.

On reflection; strike that: Mr Jen probably wrote it. 

Agree with most posts, Brendan must be given the chance to turn things around properly, a few months is not long enough. Too much chopping and changing will only set the club back further.

Too much chopping and changing will only set the club back further.

Ain't that the truth? 

Ain't that the truth? 

Indeed it already has.
Instead of using our appearance in two cup finals as a foundation to build on a successful league campaign
we have stripped the house down and started again.

We can't keep doing that, surely...

One of those cup finals was in Feb - we went backwards after that final in the league

We were well placed in Jan and still doing well until that Cup final - the springboard was there mid season and we didn't use it.

The cup and the league were like Jekyll and Hyde , chalk and cheese.

Some players left because they didn't get enough first team football in the league yet were the players that got us to the cup finals. Cup finals don't seem to be pointers towards league form due to the difference in the players picked in the two different comps. League form is the guideline and pointer to be used.

We can't keep doing that, surely...

Definitely not racer; if we do, our league form will continue to suffer but hey it's all good because, long-term, things will improve. Then again; I thought that at the end of last season too. Onwards and upwards; eh?

One of those cup finals was in Feb - we went backwards after that final in the league

We were well placed in Jan and still doing well until that Cup final - the springboard was there mid season and we didn't use it.

The cup and the league were like Jekyll and Hyde , chalk and cheese.

Some players left because they didn't get enough first team football in the league yet were the players that got us to the cup finals. Cup finals don't seem to be pointers towards league form due to the difference in the players picked in the two different comps. League form is the guideline and pointer to be used.

I am aware of all that.
We can all see that. I'm sure Kenny and Clarke were under no illusion as to what they needed to change for this season, had they stayed on.

My point, and you do seem to miss these quite a lot, is that we have effectively written off the previous managers investment.
His signings are being used as scapegoats under the guise of a new system.

They very well may not suit the system that Brendan wants to implement but if you write off 70 million of the previous manager's squad
then you should put external investment in to counter that if you want your new manager to improve on the previous year.

We haven't done that. We have, as promised, spent what the club has brought in. Under the circumstances of the massive upheaval that
is not good enough for where the club has ambitions of being.

If you look to the regime as a failure and want to chase all remnants of that regime out of the club fine. What isn't fine is having a fire-sale
on all the playing staff associated with that regime and then expecting a new manager to come in and better the results despite a 70 million
write off.

It's madness to expect any better. Our youth players are plugging the holes in the squad right now, but let's not kid ourselves that the are the
solution in their own right. This squad needs serious investment in the January transfer window. In every position we are relying on youth right
now we should seek a signing in January. That way we can give the youngsters the time they need to be our long term solution and give the
team a fighting chance of achieving success. 

But looking at the players that left its prob only 2 that left because of the manager and systems etc - Adam and Carroll.

The manager/club didn't want to lose both Kuyt and Bellamy and according to reports Maxi as well.

I can't see this "fire sale" by the club on previous regime players to write off money/investment ? From the summer spend only Adam left - the rest are still at the club are they not ?

4 of the players bought last summer are still available for selection every week.

But looking at the players that left its prob only 2 that left because of the manager and systems etc - Adam and Carroll.

The manager/club didn't want to lose both Kuyt and Bellamy and according to reports Maxi as well.

I can't see this "fire sale" by the club on previous regime players to write off money/investment ? From the summer spend only Adam left - the rest are still at the club are they not ?

4 of the players bought last summer are still available for selection every week.

Henderson - Tried to offload him in Dempsey deal.
Downing - Name in an envelope, probably. Relegated to Europa League and Wingback status.
Carroll - Any takers welcome. Rent with a view to buy.
Adam - Now Stoke's mobility problem.
Enrique - Below Kelly and Wisdom in pecking order now.

I never mentioned Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy, but it does highlight the hammering our squad has taken.

I've no problem saying that Kenny fell on his sword when it came to his signings.
They were his boys and there is no way I would have played Downing and Henderson ahead of Kuyt and Maxi.

Again though, that's not my point.

We have effectively written off 70 million worth of signings.
Whether that happens by selling them on, loaning them out or playing youth players ahead of them isn't the argument I'm getting into.

My point is if you write off that amount of investment you create a massive hole. We have plugged it with the likes of Sterling, Suso and Wisdom.
If we don't address it properly in January then I do hope that fans realise it's not the fault of Brendan.

Is that not the managers choice in regards those players not playing ?

It's him picking players instead of Downing , Henderson and Enrique ?

BR obviously thinks that playing kids instead of Downing is better - can we disagree from last years performances

Enrique has spent most of the season so far injured

Allen and Sahin were bought in to the middle so that's Adam and Henderson replaced by quality with Henderson still there for selection .

Coates is still at the club also

BR spent £15mil on a CM when the club was full of them yet struggling for strikers. BR decided to announce that Carroll was of no use to anyone.

BR takes a lot of responsibility for our current squad. Of all the money spent since FSG arrived only Adam has been sold with Carroll on loan - that's £43 mil left with only £8mil sold. The rest is at the club playing matches for us still. They may not be playing every prem game but they are still playing.

The biggest problem wasn't the selling of Kenny players it was the loss of expirenced quality in players like Kuyt and replacing them with players like Borini and Assaidi.

We are also currently suffering injuries problems

Wisdom is playing because we have lost 3 fullbacks to injury - Suso because Borini was injured.

Our squad size wise is close to last season but expirence and position wise is very unbalanced - that's down to the managers deals during the summer.

BR obviously thinks that playing kids instead of Downing is better - can we disagree from last years performances

No we can't and given time to adapt I'd say Assaidi will be ahead of him too.

Allen and Sahin were bought in to the middle so that's Adam and Henderson replaced by quality with Henderson still there for selection .

No issue with any of that as Allen has proven his worth and we got Sahin on a loan. A better midfield at a better price.

Coates is still at the club also

Big fan of his and I think it's obvious Brendan is too. That's why he's not in the written off list.

BR spent £15mil on a CM when the club was full of them yet struggling for strikers. BR decided to announce that Carroll was of no use to anyone.

We needed a quality CM. This kind of ties into the earlier point. We now have a better midfield than we did last year.
15 million on Allen, Sahin on loan. I would have said we needed a midfielder in the summer given Lucas was coming back from serious injury.

BR takes a lot of responsibility for our current squad. Of all the money spent since FSG arrived only Adam has been sold with Carroll on loan - that's £43 mil left with only £8mil sold. The rest is at the club playing matches for us still. They may not be playing every prem game but they are still playing.

The biggest problem wasn't the selling of Kenny players it was the loss of expirenced quality in players like Kuyt and replacing them with players like Borini and Assaidi.

Carroll on his own a 35 million write off.

Our biggest problem lossing Kuyt and replacing him with Borini and Assaidi?
Nah. I've been impressed with both Borini and Assaidi on their arrival. The biggest problem we have had there
is losing Borini to injury. We got Assaidi on the cheap, football signing wise.

A bigger problem is not to get Dempsey when it's been clear since the US tour that he was one of our primary targets.

Our squad size wise is close to last season but expirence and position wise is very unbalanced - that's down to the managers deals during the summer.

It's hardly Brendan's fault that Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt left.
Given the funds he would have brought three players in to rectify that, leaving us with the Carroll loss to deal with.
May we count our blessing that the experienced Jole Cole has come in to replace Craig Bellamy.
We have Assaidi instead of Maxi and Borini instead of Dirk Kuyt.

We've used youth players to fill in for Aurelio, who was hardly playing anyway.
You are right in saying we have had injury problems at it sees us currently with only 14 fit first team outfield players.
Even if they were all fit we would still only have 16 first team outfield players. That's just enough to fill out a squad sheet.
Everything else is provided by youth team players. We've used 10 and if Coady gets a game it will be 11 youth players to use
in the squad rotation. Brendan rotates because he has no choice. You cant utilise the same 16 players for every game.
Of those youngsters we have mostly filled out the attacking options using youth players because we are chronically short in that area.

Sterling, Suso, Yesil, Pacheco, Shelvey.

5 players we are relying on to mask the fact that we need reinforcements upfront.
Assaidi is 24 and looks a good signing. Downing doesn't suit the system as a wide forward and is being used as a wingback.
Cole looks a mile off the pace.

Even if we don't sign a fullback we still need forwards in January.
No amount of arguments will change that.


1. Brad Jones
25. Pepe Reina   
32. Alexander Doni
42. Peter Gulacsi
   


2. Glen Johnson   
3. Jose Enrique   
5. Daniel Agger   
6. Fabio Aurelio   
7. Luis Suarez   
8. Steven Gerrard   
9. Andy Carroll   
11. Maxi Rodriguez Oussama Assaidi   
14. Jordan Henderson   
16. Sebastian Coates   
18. Dirk Kuyt   Fabio Borini
19. Stewart Downing   
20. Jay Spearing Nuri Sahin - Loan   
21. Lucas Leiva
23. Jamie Carragher   
26. Charlie Adam Joe Allen
37. Martin Skrtel
39. Craig Bellamy    Joe Cole



22. Danny Wilson      
30. Jesus Suso   
31. Raheem Sterling      
33. Jonjo Shelvey   
34. Martin Kelly   
35. Conor Coady   
36. Nathan Eccelston Samed Yesil      
38. John Flanagan         
47. Andre Wisdom   
48. Jack Robinson

12. Dani Pacheco
50. Adam Morgan

Good post - and the area we are struggling is of course up front

And yes I believe BR has made a few choice during the summer that could have helped

Did we really need to spend £15mil on Allen ? Get Sahin in , use Henderson more and you leave yourself money to buy another forward. Plus letting Carroll go before a replacement arrived - that wasn't clever IMO and hopefully a lesson learnt.

Oh and both Pacheco and Wilson were on loan last season so they cover the loss of Aurelio and Carroll ( in numbers wise only ) .

Shelvey and Sterling are no longer youth team players - they are first team players and the quality you get from Sterling is more than plugging a gap.

Suso , Yesil and Morgan are the guys brought through early to plug gaps with only Suso being used on a regular basis.

Our squad is short in one area - a striker to lessen the load on Suarez - that's the area we need to strengthen in Jan - one signing can do that but hopefully 2 will be signed to add more options.

Our squad IMO isn't that bad - light in one area but stocked pretty well with talent in other areas - the big problem is just a lack of expirence which they are gaining as each game goes by. I think there is a lot more to come from them and I'm genuinely excited about the future - just add a couple of players and we could be up back in the top 4.

Oh and both Pacheco and Wilson were on loan last season so they cover the loss of Aurelio and Carroll ( in numbers wise only ) .

Wilson is playing in the U21s at the moment. He's only 20. I know Pacheco was at Rayo but even you can't stretch that statement to say he covers Carroll's lose.

Shelvey and Sterling are no longer youth team players - they are first team players and the quality you get from Sterling is more than plugging a gap.

Shelvey and Sterling are both under 21.

If we want to judge our squad strength by those we are trying to compete against then you need to see the squad sizes of those around us.
We should be aiming to have 18 - 20 first team outfield players. That's players over the age of 21 in the squad.

Failing to do that and instead lining the squad with U21 players will, as you already stated, unbalances the squad.

I don't see us competing with the 20 - 22 region that the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City utilise.
Even if we could get three signings in we would be on a par with United's OVER 21 squad size.

Obviously if we are to compete then those signings need to be quality and not squad players.
Two forwards are needed and possibly a fullback. If this club has genuine ambition to succeed then, if nothing else,
we must sign two quality attacking players in January.

If we don't do that then people may forget any ambition of challenging in the league.

Just a quick aside to this.


http://www.whoscored.com/Graphics/48/Show/Premier-League-Teams-Sorted-by-Age-Starting-XI

Arsenal had been first. That was when they were starting Gibbs and Jenkinson.
Now that they have the likes of Sagna back it's between ourselves and Aston Villa for youngest starting 11.

Wilson is playing in the U21s at the moment. He's only 20. I know Pacheco was at Rayo but even you can't stretch that statement to say he covers Carroll's lose.

And Wilson is currently covering as much as what Aurelio did last season. And hence why i said "numbers" wise Pacheco fills that gap.

Shelvey and Sterling are both under 21.

If we want to judge our squad strength by those we are trying to compete against then you need to see the squad sizes of those around us.
We should be aiming to have 18 - 20 first team outfield players. That's players over the age of 21 in the squad.

Failing to do that and instead lining the squad with U21 players will, as you already stated, unbalances the squad.

Why does a player have to be over 21 to be classed as a first team player ? we can all reel off plenty of players that were first team regulars by that age - even younger for a fair number of others. We should have 18-20 regular first team players regardless of their age.

I don't see us competing with the 20 - 22 region that the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City utilise.
Even if we could get three signings in we would be on a par with United's OVER 21 squad size.

Obviously if we are to compete then those signings need to be quality and not squad players.
Two forwards are needed and possibly a fullback. If this club has genuine ambition to succeed then, if nothing else,
we must sign two quality attacking players in January.

If we don't do that then people may forget any ambition of challenging in the league.

We cant compete with the squads of those clubs currently ( well take away Arsenal because they struggle past their first team ) - City and Chelsea are able to spend millions on two full teams full on internationals - we havent ever been able to do that.

We shouldnt even be talking about challenging for the league just yet - that will talk time for the players to arrive and for our current players just gain valuable expirence. First we have to get past the Newcastles,BS,Spurs and Arsenal - thats how we have fallen over the last three seasons.  You dont just jump back against them in one summer.

For years we had a squad that was full of sh*t basicaly - sh*t that wasnt playing and was picking up big wages.

We do need strengthening up front - i dont think anyone is going to disagree with that . But the squad isnt as bad as some suggest and with some even more talented players coming through BR is sitting on a goldmine.

Second one mate, and also that rumour has it that he misses his Lahnden and wants to come back.

No way he would move to a london club now. He will not get into the starting XI of any top PL clubs as of now. He will not go back to QPR.
May be after 3 or 4 seasons,once he is established,if we continue to show no ambition to win PL or still a mid table team,then i expect him to get a move into maybe chelsea too. Dont know whether he has got that ability to challenge in the top like chelsea or arsenal yet. Time will tell. Anyway i think we will make good money on him for sure.

Just a quick aside to this.


http://www.whoscored.com/Graphics/48/Show/Premier-League-Teams-Sorted-by-Age-Starting-XI

Arsenal had been first. That was when they were starting Gibbs and Jenkinson.
Now that they have the likes of Sagna back it's between ourselves and Aston Villa for youngest starting 11.

Thats something im pleased about myself - a young squad which is competing with the rest. And bar a few mistakes from the players and ref would have got some big scalps under their belt.

No way he would move to a london club now. He will not get into the starting XI of any top PL clubs as of now. He will not go back to QPR.
May be after 3 or 4 seasons,once he is established,if we continue to show no ambition to win PL or still a mid table team,then i expect him to get a move into maybe chelsea too. Dont know whether he has got that ability to challenge in the top like chelsea or arsenal yet. Time will tell. Anyway i think we will make good money on him for sure.

Arsenal would snap him up in a flash - and as Mick says he is very much a London lad and has suffered from home sickness quite regulary.

Losing him to a London club is a possibilty that shouldnt be dismissed.

George Lucas
We shouldnt even be talking about challenging for the league just yet - that will talk time for the players to arrive and for our current players just gain valuable expirence. First we have to get past the Newcastles,BS,Spurs and Arsenal - thats how we have fallen over the last three seasons.  You dont just jump back against them in one summer.

Dont talk about a challenge? is that what we have become now?.

How did Chelsea & City jump back in one summer? investement.

Disclaimer; Shabs is in no way asking for the owners of LFC to throw 'The Milliiiiiiooooooooooonnn nssssss' at the club in one summer.

Dont talk about a challenge? is that what we have become now?.

How did Chelsea & City jump back in one summer? investement.

Disclaimer; Shabs is in no way asking for the owners of LFC to throw 'The Milliiiiiiooooooooooonnn nssssss' at the club in one summer.

Well actually City took 3 years and spending of over £500mill to move from 8th to win the title.

Chelsea were in the top 4 when the russian arrived and it cost him nearl £600mil to win the title 3 times

So lets be a little realistic and remember where we finished last season and how far behind we were and build back up to get past the immediate targets first - we would all love a title challenge - we have only had two in 22 years - but lets be honest with ourselves and realise we need to build back up first and get a solid foundation before we should even talk about title challenges.