Brave Players?

That was when players were men not pampered celebrities!

That was when players were men not pampered celebrities!

Is true but you can't put all the blame on the players now as they are multimillion pound assets of the Club and therefore have to be protected as such.

I'd have Lucas on my list, too. Never shirks his responsibilities, backs himself in a challenge, plays smart and always uses the ball effectively for what his role in the team dictates. He'll never put his team mate under pressure with a pass and happy to keep the ball himself until other players are ready to receive it.

Don't know if I've worded that right because I'm not trying to praise his ability but his mentality for the role. His role requires being brave and he is.

Great to see BR going for this quality. It adds character and determination to succeed to our squad.

I'd have Lucas on my list, too. Never shirks his responsibilities, backs himself in a challenge, plays smart and always uses the ball effectively for what his role in the team dictates. He'll never put his team mate under pressure with a pass and happy to keep the ball himself until other players are ready to receive it.

Don't know if I've worded that right because I'm not trying to praise his ability but his mentality for the role. His role requires being brave and he is.

Great to see BR going for this quality. It adds character and determination to succeed to our squad.

100% agree on that Crouchy.

Billy, I know I'm spinning off topic a little. But how would you rate that era's team vs the top in Europe.
I understood we had great players, but that Shanks was a bit too cavalier in those days for European football. I mean, do you think we could have become really, really successful in Europe then?

We were/should of been successfull in Europe in 1965 but for 2 dubious referreing decisions at Inter Milan in the SEMI FINAL,we won the first leg at Anfield 3-1and lost the return leg at Inter 3-0.Bill Shankly was certainly never cavalier as he gradually replaced players season by season from 1959 onwards till 1964/5/6 when we won the league twice and the cup for the first time.Now if our manager was cavalier I sincerely hope that Brendan Rodgers gets cavalier and brings us the same success in the EPL,the F.A. Cup and Europe
 To get back on topic I regard most of our players in that ere as brave bearing in mind we had no subs in those days,in fact for Bill Shankly to go through a full season and only use 14 players indicates just how brave those lads were.     

I'd have Lucas on my list, too. Never shirks his responsibilities, backs himself in a challenge, plays smart and always uses the ball effectively for what his role in the team dictates. He'll never put his team mate under pressure with a pass and happy to keep the ball himself until other players are ready to receive it.

Don't know if I've worded that right because I'm not trying to praise his ability but his mentality for the role. His role requires being brave and he is.

Great to see BR going for this quality. It adds character and determination to succeed to our squad.

I don't think what you describe in Lucas's game is necessarily what BR is talking about. The attributes you describe are pretty spot on re Lucas though. But BR talks of technical ability and using the ball in other areas where players normally wouldn't - nothing that comes under your description, that's not to say BR doesn't rate Lucas's game and require a player like Lucas in his side. I don't think Lucas fits into the taxonomy alongside players like Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Johnson, Strurridge, & Agger. He'd be in the next category for me alongside the likes of Allen (who I think is technically superior to Lucas), Henderson and Enrique.

Using phrases like "efficient" aren't synonymous with 'using the ball in areas where others wouldn't', one's 'simple' and the other is 'risky-er', I remember (I think it was after a Skertel back-pass where Citeh scored?? IIRC) Rodgers refused to critisise Skertel for taking this option because many CB's could have just hoofed it clear to safety, he liked Skertel's intention and said he wouldn't critisise a player for trying to play a ball like that because possession would have been kept, I think BR is alluding to this kind of play where courage and risk are needed in a pass. Lucas's game is more about the percentage passes, as you say "efficiency". I really don't think people can have it both ways, whereby they say Lucas is in the side to do a "specific" job, one that is no thrills, yet are happy to try and place him alongside said players where using the ball to create or play less percentage passes IS required.

I'd say that if Lucas falls into this category then so do three quarters of the squad, as we try to re-define Rodgers's term to accommodate Lucas.

I don't think what you describe in Lucas's game is necessarily what BR is talking about. The attributes you describe are pretty spot on re Lucas though. But BR talks of technical ability and using the ball in other areas where players normally wouldn't - nothing that comes under your description, that's not to say BR doesn't rate Lucas's game and require a player like Lucas in his side. I don't think Lucas fits into the taxonomy alongside players like Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Johnson, Strurridge, & Agger. He'd be in the next category for me alongside the likes of Allen (who I think is technically superior to Lucas), Henderson and Enrique.

Using phrases like "efficient" aren't synonymous with 'using the ball in areas where others wouldn't', one's 'simple' and the other is 'risky-er', I remember (I think it was after a Skertel back-pass where Citeh scored?? IIRC) Rodgers refused to critisise Skertel for taking this option because many CB's could have just hoofed it clear to safety, he liked Skertel's intention and said he wouldn't critisise a player for trying to play a ball like that because possession would have been kept, I think BR is alluding to this kind of play where courage and risk are needed in a pass. Lucas's game is more about the percentage passes, as you say "efficiency". I really don't think people can have it both ways, whereby they say Lucas is in the side to do a "specific" job, one that is no thrills, yet are happy to try and place him alongside said players where using the ball to create or play less percentage passes IS required.

I'd say that if Lucas falls into this category then so do three quarters of the squad, as we try to re-define Rodgers's term to accommodate Lucas.

I think you just proved my point.

Lucas could easily play a more safe style whereby when he gets pressed or when he receives the ball on the edge of our area he could look long and hoof it, but he never does. He'll spray it around our midfield and defence on the ground.

You say BR's definition of brave was when Skrtel cocked up for a goal by trying to play out from the back, and that's exactly what Lucas does. He plays it out of defence and moves the ball forward, trying to maintain possession even though him misplacing one pass will lead to a opposition attacker being through on our goal.

You see my point? Again, i did say i may not of worded it right but i clearly stated i wasn't intending to make it sound like his technical ability and skill is my definition of brave, but his mentality to perform his role in the side requires being brave in itself because of the decisions he makes both in dispossessing an opposition player on the edge of our box with no fuss, and by being able to maintain possession in tight spaces in midfield.

Lucas could easily play a more safe style whereby when he gets pressed or when he receives the ball on the edge of our area he could look long and hoof it, but he never does. He'll spray it around our midfield and defence on the ground. 

In fairness Lucas is surrounded 360 degrees by team mates, so a pass is probably on more. Most DM's will retain possession, not many will hoof it.

I'd compare Mascha, Alonso and Lucas to highlight my point furthermore, I don't think Mascha was 'that' technically gifted perhaps a bit more than Lucas, and I don't think the Argie would use the ball in areas where others wouldn't, so I think Lucas and Mascha are pretty similar. Alonso would definitely fit into the catergory with Suarez, Coutinho et al because his technical ability was something else and he also had the ability to use the ball where others wouldn't.

Apologies, just read your last paragraph, (I would agree with you about Lucas's mentality BTW), in that you've used a different definition of 'brave' to what Rodgers said, which Lucas would fall into but perhaps not Rodgers's definition.

"I think my history as a coach shows I like players who are gifted technically and have courage when it comes to being in possession of a football".

Lucas has both. Courage doesn't translate to creativity and flair solely. His courage is portrayed through his ability to maintain possession under pressure and distribute it efficiently without being rash and keeping up the tempo of the team.

I know where you're coming from but I don't think I'm explaining it properly.

Lucas not technically gifted or skillful?

Just because he doesn't do it, it doesn't mean he can't.

Lucas Leiva managed zidane turn against villa player

If another player had done the above, people would be creaming their pants.

My fault. Another Lucas thread. Apologies.

Moving on....

For me personally, a good meassurement of a brave player, or whether a player is comfortable on the ball, and confident in his ability, is whether they think forward or not. I think the real brave players are always trying to look for a forward solution instead of a pass back or sideways. And I think Brendan also likes players who always want the ball, and can recieve the ball even when they're marked by a defender in their back.

Cheers stuey,with the extra time Gerry Byrne played close to 2 hours with that injury.And he still had the strength to walk around Anfield with Gordon Milne and the F.A.Cup prior to the Inter Milan match on the following Wednesday.Never have I witnessed so much atmosphere as at Anfield that night.

I'm jealous.  I would love to have been there, but it would have been a rather difficult proposition given that I was born three years later.

Anyway, I don't see anything like that happening again today in any sport with the way teams have the extensive medical teams and will yank a player off the field at the drop of a hat.  Then again, there was a football (the other football we play over here) player a few weeks ago who had part of his finger broken off and didn't know it until he took his gloves off on the sideline and part of his finger apparently stayed in the glove.

Guarantee you, we bring in a top quality central midfielder then we'll be winning the games that we are currently drawing.

Today was a fantastic game for the neutral, and even for myself as a Liverpool fan. There were a couple periods in the game where Everton had us on the back foot and we just needed one of those players to slow it down a bit. Someone like Xabi Alonso would've been perfect. Great vision, great composure, and always a step ahead.

Anyone who has to face Sakho is a brave man.