We're coping without them, but has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?

 One or two people are kind of asking the question jokingly with the captain "will he get back in the team?". The more we play well without him though, the question will be asked more seriously. Although it hasn't really been touched on as of yet, it's surely only a matter of time before somebody asks whether we have benefitted from being able to return to more authentic 4-3-3 in Sturridge's absence. If we go to Man City and/or Chelsea and get good results, there will out loud rumblings aplenty. So what has happened to us in the absence of two of our best players, do they get back in when fit?

 
 Clearly Henderson in particular has really stepped up to the plate in the absence of Stevie (and made a few of us look like right mugs into the process), but Allen has grasped his opportunity too. Lucas is holding it together behind them better than he was earlier in the season, and the three of them look a decent unit. I think the addition of Allen for Stevie has certainly given us more running power and we are able to press higher and better, I don't think anyone would dispute that either. Another thing which I don't think many would take issue with is that on the evidence of what we're seeing, the midfield has a better balance at the moment than it has for much of the season. If this last few games has shown anything, I think it's been demonstrated  clearly that we look a better team if it includes EITHER Gerrard or Lucas, but not both. On this question, and I know many will disagree, I'd bring Gerrard in as a straight swap for Lucas when he's fit. For me there's no comparison, Gerrard comes in as the sitter. For those who say "but he doesn't have the discipline" I say well he'll have to find it (I actually believe he has anyway) but he certainly doesn't have the legs to play either the Allen or Henderson role, so he must compete with Lucas for the sitter spot.

 Up top I think Danny Sturridge probably needs us to get European football even more than Luis Suarez does. By that I mean, at least then he's going to get a game a fair few times as an authentic striker. As it is, we definitely look a better side in my view if we play Brendans favoured 4-3-3, and as such if Danny is going to get a regular start he is going to have to compete with Stirling. Even that won't be easy as Raheem is becoming the player we always thought he would, but much as he doesn't like it Danny is going to have to learn to dovetail with Luis and play a little wider than he'd prefer.

 It's a nice problem to have. Ultimately although both Gerrard and Sturridge are very good players, both are IMHO going to have to slightly adopt the way they play in order to not only get in the team, but also to be of maximum benefit to it when they do play.

I can't see  how Rodgers can change the present setup when Gerrard and Sturridge come back , they'll genuinely have to earn it .

I can't see  how Rodgers can change the present setup when Gerrard and Sturridge come back , they'll genuinely have to earn it .

That's how it should be.

A lot depends on the next couple of games.

No doubt both Gerrard and Sturridge give us something different, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Agree with Swab.

Yes we are better without them but no need to change the current set up when we are doing so well because Stevie is the captain and Sturridge is another one of our in from strikers.

They will have to earn a place in the side like what every club and player should do, it's a team game not a 1 man one. They need to prove to BR that they are hungry and get back in the first team ASAP.

This will give stevie a much needed rest either way and want to see him fighting again. Suarez bangs a few in bring on Sturridge. simples

I remember KK giving an interview not too long after he took over as player/manager and had been out for a while injured.
The interviewer asked when he would be back and KK said "I wouldnae get into this team at the moment. I've a long way tae go before that happens".

I'm sure we all know there was a bit of hyperbole in what he said, but the underlying point remained the same: KK didn't believe he had a right to be in the team, he knew he had to be in there on merit or not at all.

The same goes for Stevie and Sturridge.

That's how it should be.

A lot depends on the next couple of games.

No doubt both Gerrard and Sturridge give us something different, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

If we beat or draw with city then surely that will be our strongest team .

If we beat or draw with city then surely that will be our strongest team .

I think form and fitness have to be a consideration as well.

If someone goes off the boil there's no reason why either Gerrard or Sturridge shouldn't be given a chance.
After that it's up to them to take their chance and keep someone else out of the team.

Lets just be calm and be happy that our fringe players are stepping up and doing well. Its all about the squad. Every single player in our squad is important. We have waited a long time to have a really good squad of players.

At least Rodgers now has a plan b for those who critisize
Young lads are getting a chance to show what they are made of and at the moment everything is going very well but for me Sturridge should get his spot back because he is a game changer and has a lot of confidence.
Sterling is fast and tricky but he still needs to work on his final touch.
After these performances I have no doubt in my mind he will be excelent for us but there's still plenty of time for him.
however i think Gerrard will be rotated so others can get their chance in midfield esspecially because there's a big chance we'll sign another midfielder in january.
He'll have no problem with that I think because he wants succes for the team.
Just cant decide if we have much more energy with or without Gerrard.
Maybe our second halves were bad because Gerrard couldnt deal with higher pace or it was due to Coutinho being injured.
Time will show and once he gets back we' ll see how it goes.
Captain is getting old and that's for sure and if he'll be sitting on the bench I will be sad and i just can't imagine this because he's our captain and my favourite player and a reason I started supporting Liverpool.
Just want him to win the league because of all the loyalty he showed and the person that he is.
At the end it all boils down to Rodgers and his decision.
He has the best insight to the form of the players and will decide the best.

I said it before that the triangle with two further forward and one holding works better than two holding and one in front. I think only Stevie or Lucas could hold, and Lucas is better at it. I also think both Lucas or Stevie could play further forward. At the moment you would be stripping Suarez of the captaincy

I said it before that the triangle with two further forward and one holding works better than two holding and one in front. I think only Stevie or Lucas could hold, and Lucas is better at it. I also think both Lucas or Stevie could play further forward. At the moment you would be stripping Suarez of the captaincy

Lucas has lost sharpness on the ball whereas Gerrard picks a better pass .Either way Rodgers has some tough decisions to make when the skipper comes back .

Lucas has lost sharpness on the ball whereas Gerrard picks a better pass .Either way Rodgers has some tough decisions to make when the skipper comes back .

It will be interesting to see how BR handles it

Balance is they key.

Finding that balance is going to be tough for BR and I suspect he'll have some tough decisions to make.

That's what he gets paid for though.

One thing I'm glad Flanagan got a run. It's better to have scousers where possible

Great OP Mick and kind of goes back to our debate earlier in the season in regards to the Lucas/Gerrard 'problem'.

You seen it purely as Lucas holding us back, myself and others thought Gerrard was as much to blame but in reality it was as much the way both player's were being used and the blend in midfield that was really the problem.

Its definitely one or the other for me, and you by the sounds of it, and I'm not to bothered who the boss goes with and would actually be keen to see if Stevie can be a disciplined as Lucas in the role and if his influence can make us even better although if we maintain this form Lucas does deserve the chance to keep the skipper out of the side.

I also think the 4 3 3 suits us very well and Danny might find it tough to get back I the side as we look a lot more fluid up front but what a problem to have for Brendan.

I don't think Gerrard should be playing every game as I don't think he is up to it, but I certainly would rather have him available than not.  Same for Sturridge - think he's a cracking goalscorer and let's not forget we were top after 4 games thanks to his efforts.

Suarez is looking every bit as good a skipper as Gerrard at the moment .

Think we missed Gerrard a bit today, especially at the start. Henderson was great but he didn't quite set the tempo of a game like Gerrard does so well at home. Gerrard for Allen and we genuinely could have had 7 or 8 IMO.

Sturridge is an interesting one as I think Luis plays better without him and I'd be really reluctant to mess with anything up top considering Luis' form.

I thought we were good with Suarez being flanked by Sterling and prior to Sturridge signing for us. The question at the time was how to play SAS together at the expense of the rest of the players and their positions. We've reverted back to this with Sturridge out and still look good, arguably better with more work being done in AM positions.

It's a good problem to have.

If it ain't broke don't fix it as they say, I think Henderson is thriving without the presence of Gerrard,sometimes playing with such a player could intimidate you.

Suarez is looking every bit as good a skipper as Gerrard at the moment .

That's spot on.

If it ain't broke don't fix it as they say, I think Henderson is thriving without the presence of Gerrard,sometimes playing with such a player could intimidate you.

Certainly seems that way doesn't it? He's clearly enjoying the responsibility of taking the initiative in midfield. His pass to set up Sterlings goal was incredible.

As for Coutinho, he looks better when Sturridge is on the pitch. They compliment each other so well.

Think we missed Gerrard a bit today, especially at the start. Henderson was great but he didn't quite set the tempo of a game like Gerrard does so well at home. Gerrard for Allen and we genuinely could have had 7 or 8 IMO.

Sturridge is an interesting one as I think Luis plays better without him and I'd be really reluctant to mess with anything up top considering Luis' form.

Don't agree that we missed with Henderson not setting the tempo like Stevie, thought he ran that 1st half as good as I have seen from Stevie for many a year.

First and foremost, Danny and Stevie are quality players. Brilliant players! We as fans worried when they got injured. However, the team has responded well. It's is now up to Danny and Stevie to earn their places when fit. I don't think we are better without them. In fact, we are actually in a far stronger for not having them around and allowing them to come back in. They will be like new signings and I refuse to believe we are better without them. We have hit a good run of form which, if I am honest, is probably just a confidence.

We are coping well without them because we have at least the no.3 best player in the world right now rubbing his influence on his teammates and on form.

If i am honest i am pretty sick of people knocking  stevie , we have done well without him ,but ffs people talking about him earning a place in the team , get fcking real , our midfield today was ok but by no means spectacular , we fcked about too much with the ball when a player like him would have sprayed it wide , dont be so quick to write him off people he is a class act and he will prove it , get fcking real .

We are coping well without them because we have at least the no.3 best player in the world right now rubbing his influence on his teammates and on form.

Spot on. We weren't at our best early on today (neither was Suarez) then a touch of Genius and we are in front and the whole dynamic of the game has changed.

We are coping without Sturridge and Gerrard, but it would be foolish to discount the contributions they have made. Would I like teams to worry about Suarez AND Sturridge? YOUR DAMN RIGHT I WOULD. Don't discount the SAS partnership. At the moment, Suarez is on such a high, he is unplayable, but play him with a partner who can do double damage, then you are looking at the title.

The Gerrard question does pose more of an answer though. He is our legend, but as long as he hasn't been in the team, Allen and Henderson have stepped up, and have made Gerrards absence create more of a team ethic.

It's an interesting OP Mick and definitely worth giving some thought. You kind of answer the most important question early i your post on whether we are better off playing a traditional 4-3-3. For me, absolutely, without a doubt. We played some 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 earlier in the season to good effect but our play through the thirds and our ability to keep hold of the ball, boss the tempo etc was far less and in truth we were able to rely mostly on either of the SAS to get us the goals. I much prefer to see us the way we are playing in this current phase of games (bar the Hull game)

Are we better without Gerrard? We're certainly a more athletic side but I wld agree with you, Gerrard is just as capable as Lucas of playing that holding role and obviously he brings so much more to the party. In fact, we were just seeing some green shoots of a Gerrard-Allen partnership (albeit with Coutinho ahead of them)in the couple of games prior to Stevies injury. Had it not been for a fantastic volley from Suarez this afternoon to break the deadlock, and lets be honest that goal came from out of nowhere, I think we would have missed the Captain today.

As for Sturridge, again I agree with you, I would to use him in a wide right role when he comes back from injury. He can still get in touch with Suarez from there and were such a fluid side when were at our best so. Don't see a problem although he would need to put in the same defensive shift that we have seen from young Sterling these past couple of games. What a find it has been to see him return to some form (hats off to the manager once again)

Good topic - but not a new idea.  For many years now, we have often seen that with Gerrard out, others step up.  While he is (I believe) still our best midfielder by a long way, we do sometimes see a better balanced side with him missing.  This is not to say that he shouldn't be in the side, I just think that he needs to have a specific role.  We too often play through him when he is in the side, and when he is not there players seem to play a more instinctive, natural game.

As for Sturridge I think the goalscoring form he was in before his injury says he has to be in the team  - but again the balance has to be correct.

Balance is the most important thing to the way we play, and the best team wins the league not the best group of individual players.

Stevie can come in at Right back and give Johnson something to think about

Great OP Mick,
I think it's just down to those players who needed to step up and be counted, for to long we have been relying on Gerrard pulling the strings and dragging us out of the sh*t,

When we lost him thru injury we were all worried how we would cope without him , now look what's happened, it's completely turned around to the point where we're discussing can or will we be better with him,

There is no doubt that Jordan, Joe, & Lucas have stepped up tbf, they have been brilliant esp Jordan,

So the dilemma,
Like most i think you need to earn your place back, but occasionally exceptions are made, and in this case Gerrard is the exception, so who drops out?

That's down to Brendan, how he feels, who the opposition are, what kind of players will be faced etc,

Up front I think we should stick to how it is at present, Sturridge will know he is a pivotal part of the team and aware that he will need to fight to get back in,as with everyone else,

Of course this problem will ease once next season comes about,
We will by then be competing in 4 completions including CL, and therefore Brendan will be able to rotate accordingly ,

Won't he people ?



YNWA

There is no doubt Stevie will come straight back so for me I still want to see Allen and Hendo continue so Lucas would have to drop out.

There is no doubt Stevie will come straight back so for me I still want to see Allen and Hendo continue so Lucas would have to drop out.

I'd like Stevie to earn that in an ideal world. While this midfield is showing form it should be allowed to flourish a bit, until otherwise.

If a player is doing well and is in form - you should never drop him IMO for the sake of it. Lucas has done well thus far.

I'd like Stevie to earn that in an ideal world. While this midfield is showing form it should be allowed to flourish a bit, until otherwise.

If a player is doing well and is in form - you should never drop him IMO for the sake of it. Lucas has done well thus far.

I agree 100% mate and if the midfield plays as it has over the next few weeks then personally I'd leave Stevie on the bench when he is fit.

But it won't happen as Brendan sees him as a key man, and it easy to understand why, so I just hope he has realised that Lucas/Gerrard doesn't work as well as one of them playing behind Allen/Henderson.

I agree 100% mate and if the midfield plays as it has over the next few weeks then personally I'd leave Stevie on the bench when he is fit.

But it won't happen as Brendan sees him as a key man, and it easy to understand why, so I just hope he has realised that Lucas/Gerrard doesn't work as well as one of them playing behind Allen/Henderson.

Realistically you are probably right.

I've said it often enough but here goes (again): I don't care who plays where when we are winning. At the moment we are winning so nothing needs fixing. However, in the spirit of the question in the opening post, I'll answer.

I love 4-3-3 and have never hid that so if it comes to playing 4-3-3 - Sturridge (to my mind) fits into the current, winning side easier than Stevie. He can play anywhere across an interchanging front three with ease whilst Stevie would have to 'learn' to play Lucas' defensive role. I'm not saying he couldn't do it - just that it's not as easy a fit.

The alternative, to dropping Lucas, 'cause let's be honest that's what 'we' are really angling at, (yet again)    ...

...  is to drop either Jordan or Joe and the truth is Stevie can't really match their energy or pace anymore. To drop either of them in a 4-3-3 (at the moment anyhow) would be daft in my opinion.

So there you have it - I think both Sturridge and Stevie will be accommodated when fit and (to the 'relief' of some); it will be Lucas who is dropped to accommodate Stevie.

I've said it often enough but here goes (again): I don't care who plays where when we are winning. At the moment we are winning so nothing needs fixing. However, in the spirit of the question in the opening post, I'll answer.

I love 4-3-3 and have never hid that so if it comes to playing 4-3-3 - Sturridge (to my mind) fits into the current, winning side easier than Stevie. He can play anywhere across an interchanging front three with ease whilst Stevie would have to 'learn' to play Lucas' defensive role. I'm not saying he couldn't do it - just that it's not as easy a fit.

The alternative, to dropping Lucas, 'cause let's be honest that's what 'we' are really angling at, (yet again)    ...

...  is to drop either Jordan or Joe and the truth is Stevie can't really match their energy or pace anymore. To drop either of them in a 4-3-3 (at the moment anyhow) would be daft in my opinion.

So there you have it - I think both Sturridge and Stevie will be accommodated when fit and (to the 'relief' of some); it will be Lucas who is dropped to accommodate Stevie.

Great post.

Totally agree, especially with the line in bold. I think that we should not rush either back if we keep current form. Let both of them regain full fitness and have a few sub appearances before bringing them back in to the starting line up. We always rush our players back too quickly after or sometimes even during injuries.

I've said it often enough but here goes (again): I don't care who plays where when we are winning. At the moment we are winning so nothing needs fixing. However, in the spirit of the question in the opening post, I'll answer.

I love 4-3-3 and have never hid that so if it comes to playing 4-3-3 - Sturridge (to my mind) fits into the current, winning side easier than Stevie. He can play anywhere across an interchanging front three with ease whilst Stevie would have to 'learn' to play Lucas' defensive role. I'm not saying he couldn't do it - just that it's not as easy a fit.

The alternative, to dropping Lucas, 'cause let's be honest that's what 'we' are really angling at, (yet again)    ...

...  is to drop either Jordan or Joe and the truth is Stevie can't really match their energy or pace anymore. To drop either of them in a 4-3-3 (at the moment anyhow) would be daft in my opinion.

So there you have it - I think both Sturridge and Stevie will be accommodated when fit and (to the 'relief' of some); it will be Lucas who is dropped to accommodate Stevie.

"We" aren't "angling" at anything fella, behave yourself. The opening post spells out quite clearly what I'm getting at, and the thrust of it is more to do with whether "we" have benefitted more from the switches which have been forced upon us (particularly now "we" are back to 4-3-3, than anything else). I like reading your posts BBB, but like the rest of us sometimes you let yourself down. Unfortunately, here you have got entirely the wrong end of the stick and are being an @rse.

Instead of just managing a small win against a Totenham side regularly underperforming this season, like most expected (count in the "Next 10 games" how many predicted that win) we have been impressive against them and won by 5.
In the next game, during one half, we have been very good again, against a side nobody was seing as a threat for us at Anfield, then we had a more average half.
Before those two victories without Gerrard and Sturridge, Liverpool played 15 games in the league with Gerrard, winning 9, and 12 including 8 wins also involved Sturridge.  We won 5 of those games with a 2+ goals difference (2 with 4).
Gerrard is currently third in PL for his number of decisive passes with 6, and our most decisive player on set pieces, Daniel Sturridge is third in PL for his number of goals scored with 9. Having played only 9 full games, he is only beaten by Suarez in goals scored / minute played.

It's possible there's a real improvement. It's possible there's none. For the moment the only thing we know is, despite Gerrard and Sturridge being excellent players, they weren't needed to largely beat Spurs and Cardiff.
We should be able to see that after 10 or so games without Gerrard and Sturridge ; if we win 7 or more (or secure wins against teams like City or Chelsea) it would be a proof Liverpool is better without them ; largely winning one game and a half, especially with Suarez in his current exceptionnal form, is not one, an improvement isn't "Hendo, Lucas and Allen having a good game when everything goes Liverpool's way", it should be "Hendo, Lucas and Allen becoming consistently better than Gerrard even in games where players like Suarez fail to be influential" (and same for Sterling or whoever has to compete against Sturridge, although it's harder to compare strikers and wingers).

Finally about our formation, Liverpool won games with every one used this season, including 5-3-2 and 4-2-2-2, so it's also too early to say there's any proof switching to a permanent 4-3-3 would have better results in the long run.

The question is,

IF Sturridge comes back from injury, would you as a manager risk changing the role of Suarez just to accommodate Sturridge? or stick to the game plan that is working right now and keep Sturridge on bench? It's an interesting scenario.

The question is,

IF Sturridge comes back from injury, would you as a manager risk changing the role of Suarez just to accommodate Sturridge? or stick to the game plan that is working right now and keep Sturridge on bench? It's an interesting scenario.

I think the anwser to that is easy.

While we're continuing our form, performances and results I don't think Sturridge has any chance of going straight into the team barring injury.

It's good to have this squad depth when he comes back though. Plenty of options.

I think the anwser to that is easy.

While we're continuing our form, performances and results I don't think Sturridge has any chance of going straight into the team barring injury.

It's good to have this squad depth when he comes back though. Plenty of options.

I would agree with that mate, even with Gerrard. I still believe we can do better than Lucas, but so far things are working and Suarez is linking up well with Coutinho and Henderson, so let's stick to it.

It also depends on the games. They are needed to break down teams but accommodating them against arsenal away for example meant losing. In any case we need them back as our bench is average

If its not broke, don't fix it simple, what will it do to say some one like Joe Allen or Henderson's confidence ?, as whilst they haven't had the best careers here to date, over the last few games they have started to look every inch the players we'd hope they be, I'd keep playing the same line up and introduce them from the subs bench and if any of the players in their positions have a dip in form then make the changes.

One or two people are kind of asking the question jokingly with the captain "will he get back in the team?". The more we play well without him though, the question will be asked more seriously. Although it hasn't really been touched on as of yet, it's surely only a matter of time before somebody asks whether we have benefitted from being able to return to more authentic 4-3-3 in Sturridge's absence. If we go to Man City and/or Chelsea and get good results, there will out loud rumblings aplenty. So what has happened to us in the absence of two of our best players, do they get back in when fit?

 
 Clearly Henderson in particular has really stepped up to the plate in the absence of Stevie (and made a few of us look like right mugs into the process), but Allen has grasped his opportunity too. Lucas is holding it together behind them better than he was earlier in the season, and the three of them look a decent unit. I think the addition of Allen for Stevie has certainly given us more running power and we are able to press higher and better, I don't think anyone would dispute that either. Another thing which I don't think many would take issue with is that on the evidence of what we're seeing, the midfield has a better balance at the moment than it has for much of the season. If this last few games has shown anything, I think it's been demonstrated  clearly that we look a better team if it includes EITHER Gerrard or Lucas, but not both. On this question, and I know many will disagree, I'd bring Gerrard in as a straight swap for Lucas when he's fit. For me there's no comparison, Gerrard comes in as the sitter. For those who say "but he doesn't have the discipline" I say well he'll have to find it (I actually believe he has anyway) but he certainly doesn't have the legs to play either the Allen or Henderson role, so he must compete with Lucas for the sitter spot.

 Up top I think Danny Sturridge probably needs us to get European football even more than Luis Suarez does. By that I mean, at least then he's going to get a game a fair few times as an authentic striker. As it is, we definitely look a better side in my view if we play Brendans favoured 4-3-3, and as such if Danny is going to get a regular start he is going to have to compete with Stirling. Even that won't be easy as Raheem is becoming the player we always thought he would, but much as he doesn't like it Danny is going to have to learn to dovetail with Luis and play a little wider than he'd prefer.

 It's a nice problem to have. Ultimately although both Gerrard and Sturridge are very good players, both are IMHO going to have to slightly adopt the way they play in order to not only get in the team, but also to be of maximum benefit to it when they do play.

I was thinking the same about Stevie as regard to playing holding midfielder.  I believe he does have the discipline these days to play in that position - and I also believe he will be excellent in the holding role for a few years to come.  For me, Lucas is the man to drop to the bench. However, what's really positive for us is that, after years of lacking depth, we are finally beginning to have some selection options/headaches.  I think Suso may be back next year to add to this headache, and Ibe could also step up over the next year or two.  These are exciting times, and if the next couple of transfer windows are well managed, we may just be about to compete at the top again.  I'm enjoying being a Liverpool fan at this moment, and it's been a few years (2008/9) since I could say that.  Big credit to Rodgers for his part in that and, although an unpopular view, credit also goes to the owners who, I think, are running the club expediently. 

I think sometimes we as supporters want things a little too easy. We want a well defined first team rather than a strong first team squad all competing for places.

I think 4 good players competing for 3 places is much better for the team than having 3 automatic selections and one who is only considered good enough when we have injuries.

Same with Sturridge, he now has to compete for his place with Sterling or even Suarez, if Suarez loses focus or form.

We need a strong squad of good players all fighting for their position rather than accepting that certain players automatically get a first team recall as soon as they are fit.

Maybe it would make team selection harder for us as supporters (and for Brendan too) if Mignolet had to compete with Reina rather than Jones, but surely it would make us stronger? 

Similarly once Gerrard and Sturridge return it will make team selection harder, it may even make balancing the team more difficult but it should make the team BETTER. 

Too many players for too long have had an easy ride with little or no genuine competition for their places, but as Bob Dylan said .... Times they are a changin'.

We have good competition at CB, once Gerrard returns we will have (some) competition in midfield and with Sturridge's return reasonable competition up front.

Yes, we may get a few more team selections wrong, but as long as Brendan gets them right that's all that really matters.

One or two people are kind of asking the question jokingly with the captain "will he get back in the team?"

Why do you write this like you're walking on eggshells?  "oh, ha, ha, it's a joke, will Stevie get back in the team, ha, I don't actually think he shouldn't, you know, just kind of for fun, just wondering..."

Just say it, FFS, everyone and their mother can see it.  We play better without Stevie. 

There's no reason he should come back into the team right now even if he is fit tomorrow miraculously.

you don't have to be afraid to acknowledge what you see in front of your eyes.

I'm not walking on eggshells, why would I?. I think Stevie should get straight into the team when he's fit, so why would I "be afraid to acknowledge" that I don't think he should? Some people are more intent on doing some sort of bullsh!t phsyco analysis on the mindset of the poster who started the thread than they are actually discussing football. If some of the people on this forum were half as f*cking clever as they thought they were we could launch our own mission to Mars.   

I'm not walking on eggshells, why would I?. I think Stevie should get straight into the team when he's fit, so why would I "be afraid to acknowledge" that I don't think he should? Some people are more intent on doing some sort of bullsh!t phsyco analysis on the mindset of the poster who started the thread than they are actually discussing football. If some of the people on this forum were half as f*cking clever as they thought they were we could launch our own mission to Mars.

There certainly seems to be a fair share of Sigmund Freud's on here - and you seem to attract the wannabe psycho babble analysts. 

So there you have it - I think both Sturridge and Stevie will be accommodated when fit and (to the 'relief' of some); it will be Lucas who is dropped to accommodate Stevie.

I think you could be right however, I think if BR wanted just to put Stevie in the line up then he could put Lucas where Allen is at the moment. I believe Lucas could play that role well, whereas if Stevie plays it I think he will naturally drift back. Trouble is when he plays the holding role he tends to watch the ball. I think this issue has some potential to be bigger than people think. When the one time saviour of the team no longer has that role. Personally I would play him where Lucas plays and stick Lucas further forward. I would always try an accommodate Lucas in this team. Stevie is still a very good footballer and a talisman. If however we smash City at Eastlands by 5 goals I would offer him a coaching role.

Some people may criticise me for this but the way Suarez has been playing and acting I believe he deserves to have the armband permanently. Gerrard has always and will always be my favourite player but some of his performances as captain in recent times have made me think if the team would benefit from someone with a bit more energy? Kind of like when Stevie took over from Sami, he brought that energy that the other players feed off. Oh and I am not saying Gerrard has lost it before anyone decides to have a pop.

Some people may criticise me for this but the way Suarez has been playing and acting I believe he deserves to have the armband permanently. Gerrard has always and will always be my favourite player but some of his performances as captain in recent times have made me think if the team would benefit from someone with a bit more energy? is Kind of like when Stevie took over from Sami, he brought that energy that the other players feed off. Oh and I am not saying Gerrard has lost it before anyone decides to have a pop.

Giving Luis the armband does make sense and I mean no disrespect to Steven Gerrard when I say that.
 Stevie for his wish to extend his playing days with us obviously will have to be rested, in that situation I'm sure the great man could see the advantage to the club and the player in making Luis the regular skipper.
His status and attachment to LFC would be enhanced to the level of a living legend.

I for one think we do play better without Gerrard
But that doesn't mean we are a better team without him.

The problem doesn't lie with Gerrard the problem lie's with the other's
If the like's of Henderson Allen Lucas or whoever put in as much of a shift
when Gerrard was in the side we'd be an even better team.

The younger fitter player's should have the attitude i'll show this 'al codger when they play with Gerrard
That's the attitude he showed the like's of Ince & Redknapp when he was a teenager..

Reading this thread you'd have the impression Gerrard and Sturridge are out since eight games, and after a disastrous start of the season the reds suddenly managed some results due to that.

I mean, I'm as happy as anyone about Suarez's form and Hendo / Sterling / Allen / Lucas performances of late, but seriously, WTF with thinking two games (including one where Liverpool had a poor half) are a sufficient sample to say there's a big improvement and expect it will remain like that as long the criminal Gerrard and Sturridge don't return to the team ? Can't you at least wait for after City and Chelsea games, to see how "new Liverpool" performs against serious opposition ? 

And about Suarez permanently replacing Gerrard for captaincy is he even candidate ? It seems he thinks it's better for the team to say "there's only one captain it's Steven Gerrard" and to give the armband to vice-captain Daniel Agger as soon he enters the field, I wonder why some fans would want to add that pressure on Suarez and tensions in the team mid season (for when Gerrard retires, I agree, Luis if still here would be one to consider, but there is time).

"We" aren't "angling" at anything fella, behave yourself. The opening post spells out quite clearly what I'm getting at, and the thrust of it is more to do with whether "we" have benefitted more from the switches which have been forced upon us (particularly now "we" are back to 4-3-3, than anything else). I like reading your posts BBB, but like the rest of us sometimes you let yourself down. Unfortunately, here you have got entirely the wrong end of the stick and are being an @rse.

How is 'BBB' being an arse Mick? He has a perfectly valid point , unless of course you think his opinion or anyone else's for that matter doesn't match those of yours,
In which case you'll be the one being an Arse,

Merry Xmas


YNWA

How is 'BBB' being an arse Mick?

I think mick believes I'm being an arse because I'm suggesting he can't let an opportunity pass without mentioning how he believes Lucas is the weak link in midfield.

I don't know what came over me or how on earth I could have jumped to that conclusion so I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. 

Suggesting anyone is the "weak link" in midfield (or even up top for that matter) when we have just turned in two brilliant performances is the last thing on my mind. I'm a huge advocate of Danny Sturridge these days for instance, but it seems fairly clear to me that we look a better team with one striker not two. Equally, since Gerrard has been out of the team, only a fool would deny that the form of Henderson in particular has shot up, and also that our midfield as a unit looks better.

The question posed in the OP was quite simply do they get back into the team or not, and if they do, where and how would you have them play? There's no "not letting an opportunity pass" about it, and if it WAS the case that I was having a pop at Lucas and being called for it, I'd hold my hands up and admit it. It isn't the case though, just like it wasn't the case that I "introduced the 40 points at the halfway stage because I thought it helped my argument" a few weeks back. The same poster got a little slur in then which went un rectified, and the same thing has happened here with the silly response.


Fortunately, most people seem to have taken the OP in the spirit it is/was intended. It will become something of a moot point if we don't do well at Man City and Chelsea as everyone (including me no doubt) will be clamouring for the return of two of our better players. As it stands though, it is entirely legitimate when we are spanking the likes of Spurs 5-0 to ask whether we shouldn't just leave things as they are.

Still think Lucas-Allen looks the strongest CM pairing we have, when all are fit.  At home against so-called weaker opposition, it's not something I'd use and we do tend to, as Rodgers puts it, flip the triangle for those games and when all fit, we have a strength in depth in midfield that wasn't perceived by many before now. 

Still think Lucas-Allen looks the strongest CM pairing we have, when all are fit.  At home against so-called weaker opposition, it's not something I'd use and we do tend to, as Rodgers puts it, flip the triangle for those games and when all fit, we have a strength in depth in midfield that wasn't perceived by many before now. 

I think with Brendans 4-3-3 it makes more sense actually to talk about who is the best midfield three than the midfield pairing. As is stands at the moment, the current midfield three is the best looking combo we've had all season, I don't think anyone could deny that. The question going forward is could we improve on it with the personel available. I think we could, but I'm not as 1 million per cent certain as I was a few weeks back. What's changed the dynamic more than anything is the form of Henderson in particular and Allen to a slightly lesser extent. Both have rendered themselves undroppable in my view. Henderson with hios overall play, and Allen with his high pressing and mobility.

I think with Brendans 4-3-3 it makes more sense actually to talk about who is the best midfield three than the midfield pairing. As is stands at the moment, the current midfield three is the best looking combo we've had all season, I don't think anyone could deny that. The question going forward is could we improve on it with the personel available. I think we could, but I'm not as 1 million per cent certain as I was a few weeks back. What's changed the dynamic more than anything is the form of Henderson in particular and Allen to a slightly lesser extent. Both have rendered themselves undroppable in my view. Henderson with hios overall play, and Allen with his high pressing and mobility.

Can't agree with Allen being undroppable any more than I could agree with those that said they thought Lucas had a good game because they didn't see him against Cardiff.  Both, especially compared to Henderson, are eminently droppable depending on the situation.  Allen was poor against Cardiff, had a very heavy touch, but impressed me by realising that his passing game was off and proceeded to keep it simple and let other parts of his game flourish, such as his closing down and tackling.

Can't agree with Allen being undroppable any more than I could agree with those that said they thought Lucas had a good game because they didn't see him against Cardiff.  Both, especially compared to Henderson, are eminently droppable depending on the situation.  Allen was poor against Cardiff, had a very heavy touch, but impressed me by realising that his passing game was off and proceeded to keep it simple and let other parts of his game flourish, such as his closing down and tackling.

Sorry mate didn't explain myself very well. Henderson is "undroppable" at the moment because he is playing really well. Allen is "undroppable" IMHO because we haven't got a single other player in the whole squad who does what he does. Gerrard can't do it, Alberto can't do it, Lucas can't do it and I don't think Henderson can either. Ever since we've had two players in there with energy as opposed to one, we look a much better team in  my view, which is why at the moment I couldn't leave either out.

All that said, my guess is that when Gerrard is fit again Brendan will leave Allen out unless one of the three gets injured/suspended etc. I think Brendan also will leave Raheem out and bring Danny Sturridge in, but I do think he will ask him to play right and track back. Given the players reluctance in the past to do this, it'll be a test of the manager to see if he can get his idea accross. 

To ask whether we've become better without Sturridge is ridiculous, had it not been for him we won't have won any of the games before Suarez was back, not to mention him and Suarez picked up where they left off last season and were lethal once more before Sturridge got injured! If we'd have had Sturridge against Hull then no way would they have beaten us IMO, a team like Hull, no matter how good they were on the day, they wouldn't have handled both Suarez and Sturridge! No team with an attack like SAS are better without one half of it.

There were genuine concerns expressed, about our midfield performances, earlier on this season. The consensus being that the 'problem' lay with the personnel rather than formation.

Well, although it might just be a coincidence, the thing is, those earlier 'problems' seem to have disappeared.

The assumption being that the personnel, in situ, are doing a better job than those before them. If that is indeed the case - why change it?

To ask whether we've become better without Sturridge is ridiculous, had it not been for him we won't have won any of the games before Suarez was back, not to mention him and Suarez picked up where they left off last season and were lethal once more before Sturridge got injured! If we'd have had Sturridge against Hull then no way would they have beaten us IMO, a team like Hull, no matter how good they were on the day, they wouldn't have handled both Suarez and Sturridge! No team with an attack like SAS are better without one half of it.

I'm sorry you think it's "ridiculous" to suggest the team has a better balance with an authentic 4-3-3 than it did with a convoluted 3-5-2 or even 4-4-2. I think that's the point. It's not that Danny Sturridge isn't good enough to get into the team because he clearly is, it's whether he will be able to adapt his game to the current style or whether we ditch it in order to accommodate him.

You're quite right too, had it not been for Danny and his goals early in the season we wouldn't be where we are now. Were Suarez to do something daft again, at least we are safe in the knowledge that we can stick with the 4-3-3 and Danny is a brilliant alternative to the best player in the land. As it is though, for me I'd be reluctant to revert back to the 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 in order to accommodate Danny. I'd be telling him it's 4-3-3 and it's his job to make it work, from the right, with Suarez. "Ridiculous"? We'll see.

There were genuine concerns expressed, about our midfield performances, earlier on this season. The consensus being that the 'problem' lay with the personnel rather than formation.

Well, although it might just be a coincidence, the thing is, those earlier 'problems' seem to have disappeared.

The assumption being that the personnel, in situ, are doing a better job than those before them. If that is indeed the case - why change it?

Is the whole question. I personally don't think it's an "assumption" that we operate better as we are than we did previously, it's so much of an improvement that it's almost impossible to deny it. We've won our last four games very comfortably, the constant factors in that have been that EITHER Gerrard or Lucas have played and not both, and that BOTH Allen and Henderson have played. Also, it is absolutely impossible to deny that Henderson has played far better in the last two matches than he has in his whole Liverpool career. Coincidently, those were two matches in which Gerrard didn't play. Are the two linked? I personally don't think so no, but I totally get why people think there is something there.

Also, I think it is impossible to dispute that we look at our best with a 4-3-3. Hence the point about Danny Sturridge, clearly he doesn't get in in front of Suarez, so what do you do with him? 

I'm sorry you think it's "ridiculous" to suggest the team has a better balance with an authentic 4-3-3 than it did with a convoluted 3-5-2 or even 4-4-2. I think that's the point. It's not that Danny Sturridge isn't good enough to get into the team because he clearly is, it's whether he will be able to adapt his game to the current style or whether we ditch it in order to accommodate him.

You're quite right too, had it not been for Danny and his goals early in the season we wouldn't be where we are now. Were Suarez to do something daft again, at least we are safe in the knowledge that we can stick with the 4-3-3 and Danny is a brilliant alternative to the best player in the land. As it is though, for me I'd be reluctant to revert back to the 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 in order to accommodate Danny. I'd be telling him it's 4-3-3 and it's his job to make it work, from the right, with Suarez. "Ridiculous"? We'll see.

So do you have some inside knowledge or something because who's to say we would go back to 3-5-2 with both SAS starting? Also if you look back it was the defensive side of that formation that was having the problems, we were still scoring plenty of goals. They can both play without it going to 3-5-2. Even 4-4-2 like you say, why do you suddenly think that our current 4-3-3 wouldn't work as well with them both in the team? We played them both in a 4-3-3 last season and that was when our impressive run of results started! Apologies on using the Hull game as another example here, but when you look at that 4-3-3 we had Moses starting in it and he was so damn woeful he nearly raised the question of whether he is actually a footballer at all! When we have SAS in a 4-3-3 they still score a lot of goals and that's proven it works by the fact we have scored more goals than anybody else in 2013. IMO you should always play your strongest 11 and our strongest 11 includes both Suarez and Sturridge starting so yes he should go straight back into the team IMO, whether Gerrard should, well that's a different story because with him out at the moment this has been our most effective looking midfield for a while though should anyone make way I think it will be Allen because he done himself no favours in the 2nd half against Cardiff.

We have had no problems scoring goals for a year now and that's because SAS have been so lethal so when you combine them with Coutinho and an extremely impressive Henderson at the moment it can only be a good thing surely?

Our problems this season have been defensively but we have looked stronger without Gerrard, I remember him being arguably at fault for more than one of the goals we have let in this season! But then we all know he can be unplayable when he essentially seems to be in the mood so he is a very tricky one IMO, maybe him being on the bench instead of coming straight back into the team would push him on and make him start play both well and consistently again.

The only position for Gerrard now is at CB. And I'll be happy with him there, instead of nervous, sloppy Skrtel. As for Sturridge he's a central player so Suarez will take Sterlings position when Daniel is back fit. He played there at Ajax so no problem for Luis to adapt when our only recognized centre forward is leading the line again. Two arguably best Liverpool players simply must start when fit. Up to Rodgers to get a team balance right.

The thing is, if we stick with the 4-4-3 (which i think we should), then Sturridge will have to play on the right as he has no reason to move Suarez or Coutinho. We know he had an issue with Chelsea about this so he is not going to be happy. Even if Sturridge was fit for thursday's game i see no reason to drop Sterling as he has been a big factor in our incredible form and it would be detrimental to the player. As much as i rate Sturridge as a player and agree that he was winning games, he is not going to put in a shift like Sterling, closing down opposition and tracking back, providing cover etc...
   
Rodgers has to say to Sturridge that this is his only way back in to the team. I don't want to see Rodgers changing a winning formation to accomodate a player, he's better than that.

it's a fantastic problem to have. seriously considering whether stevie or danny can get back into the team shows just how right rogers has got it so far.

it'll be harsh but i think stevie should slot in for lucas IF he merits it. he has to be better than lucas in that position to win his place.

there is absolutely no reason why those two, great players as they are, should merit a place straight back into the team. i think sturridge will have to compete with sterling OR coutinho and fight for a place.

i remember ian rush said in an interview that the liverpool team in the 80s was the most competitive he had ever come across. every player had to fight for their position week in week out regardless of reputation...look what they achieved in the process.

full of optimism right now.

The assumption being that the personnel, in situ, are doing a better job than those before them.

I personally don't think it's an "assumption" that we operate better as we are than we did previously, it's so much of an improvement that it's almost impossible to deny it.

To be honest - I only wrote "assumption" because I, personally, don't know, for sure, if the improvement is down to personnel or formation (as much as I like 4-3-3). However, if you're happy to say it's down to personnel, I'm happy to discuss it from that angle.

So... if we are looking at it from the personnel PoV - "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?" and "we operate better as we are than we did previously". Then the answer is "yes".

However... if we know (or assume) that we are preforming better because of formation then to the question: "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?"  the answer is "No; it's the change of formation which has made us better".

Taking it further...

We've won our last four games very comfortably,

Indeed but to be fair if the question is; "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?", then it's only really the last two games we need to look at [re: Stevie] given that those are the only two he didn't start.

To that end: the constant factors are that Stevie played in neither: Lucas, Allen and Henderson played in both. I agree that it's impossible to deny that Henderson has played far better, in the last two matches, than he has in his whole Liverpool career. So...

Coincidently, those were two matches in which Gerrard didn't play. Are the two linked?

Well (again) there must be a 'link'... if we know (or even assume) that; it is down to personnel. If we know (or even assume) that it's not down to personnel (but formation) then there is no link. Simples. 

The only position for Gerrard now is at CB. And I'll be happy with him there, instead of nervous, sloppy Skrtel. As for Sturridge he's a central player so Suarez will take Sterlings position when Daniel is back fit. He played there at Ajax so no problem for Luis to adapt when our only recognized centre forward is leading the line again. Two arguably best Liverpool players simply must start when fit. Up to Rodgers to get a team balance right.

cb, really, I know Brendan mentioned it but I'm really not sure about it at all

I have always considered Stevie a fantastic player, possibly one of the best to ever play for our club but at the same time our teams have been very dictated by him. What I mean by this is that if Stevie played well then the team played well and vice versa. On many many occasions the team has played much better as a team without him in it.
It's certainly true that Henderson has suddenly becoming a useful, dare I say very good, midfielder in Stevie's absence and there most certainly is a link there. Henderson seems to have foudn his confidence now, instead of just meekly passing the ball to Stevie all the time.
In my opinion, and I was saying this before as well, Stevie should be used as an impact sub from now on, he should not be a regular starter.
As for Sturridge he's our second striker so if we only play with one striker then he starts on the bench, if we play 2 strikers in a match then he partners Suarez, simples.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable. We've proved we can cope without certain big named players in recent months and this bodes well. Timing of these injuries will also play a huge part and the run of fixtures they miss which can distort our view on if we are better or not without these players.

For me what's more important is that Coutinho plays. He's so important to our system and style of play that i dont mind who else plays in midfield (from the options we have). Look at our 3 losses this season which were clearly our least effective performances. Southampton at home and Arsenal & Hull away. Countinho started none of these games and he even came off injured when we were 2-1 up at Swansea before we had a bad last 25mins there. Of course we did win games without him (Sunderland away, Palace at home), but of all the injuries and suspensions we've had to deal with, his absences seem to hit us hardest.

The only position for Gerrard now is at CB. And I'll be happy with him there, instead of nervous, sloppy Skrtel.

 

Where the hell did that come from?

Where the hell did that come from?

'Blueshite wumming 101: the manual'. The same manual this came from...

No chance unfortunately. Martinez is tactically on a different planet than Rodgers.
Now with quality players at his disposal, Roberto's Everton will crush us to death.

 

I think it's time to convert Gerrard to the deepest role in a 1-2 midfield, with Lucas as his back-up. The 2 should be Henderson and Allen for the time being, with Coutinho and Alberto to step in when needed. In January we need to get a DM/CM of top quality to displace one of the 3. Up front we should play a fluid front 3 consisting of 3 of Suarez, Sturridge (once available), Coutinho and Sterling, with Alberto, Aspas and Moses as options.

This once Gerrard is back. Sturridge will have to work his way back in there.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable.

This for me, it's only been two games, one exceptional and one decent. We certainly haven't struggled the way we expected we might but the true test comes in the next two games. Had we not made the breakthrough through Suarez's fantastic volley on Saturday I have a feeling we might have gone in at 0-0 as despite playing well we aren't really crafting anything clear cut. It was the sort of match where I think we would have found ourselves wishing Stevie was fit and available with his range of passing.

Although with that in mind, one thing I have noticed is that our passing game has completely shortened up since the Skipper got injured. It's been much more the tippee tappee football we were expecting to see when Brendan came in and more akin to the stuff we were playing in the first part of last season.

Where the hell did that come from?

From Rodgers in his recent interview.

And bubby, apart from the fact you're having very sad xmas digging old posts, Everton were clearly better prepared tactically, and could have destroy us in the second half. Thanks to some shrewd in-game changes by Martinez. He has done extremely well so far, in his first season at the new club, with far less resources than Rodgers.

From Rodgers in his recent interview.

And bubby, apart from the fact you're having very sad xmas digging old posts, Everton were clearly better prepared tactically, and could have destroy us in the second half. Thanks to some shrewd in-game changes by Martinez. He has done extremely well so far, in his first season at the new club, with far less resources than Rodgers.

No one is biting fella so maybe dangle your bait on another board

It would be the wrong message to the rest of the squad if Gerrard did not have to fight for a starting spot.
In a top 4 team, no player can be undroppable.
At this time, and based on the last 2 games, the midfield has performed admirably well with all 3 players stepping up to the plate.
Gerrard when he is fit will have to compete for a starting spot.
When fully fit, my opinion is that Gerrard will likely sit for high-tempo/away games where energetic pressing is needed. He will on the other hand play when we know we will control the game where his lethal passes will come handy.
Gerrard is >33 and although remains technically a maestro does not have the energy nor the legs to press up.
Gerrard is an Anfield legend and great; but BR will have to do what is best for the team. I am confident that we will whether Gerrard plays or not.
YNWA

It would be the wrong message to the rest of the squad if Gerrard did not have to fight for a starting spot.
In a top 4 team, no player can be undroppable.
At this time, and based on the last 2 games, the midfield has performed admirably well with all 3 players stepping up to the plate.
Gerrard when he is fit will have to compete for a starting spot.
When fully fit, my opinion is that Gerrard will likely sit for high-tempo/away games where energetic pressing is needed. He will on the other hand play when we know we will control the game where his lethal passes will come handy.
Gerrard is >33 and although remains technically a maestro does not have the energy nor the legs to press up.
Gerrard is an Anfield legend and great; but BR will have to do what is best for the team. I am confident that we will whether Gerrard plays or not.
YNWA

The team has to come first and Gerrard will have to fight just as much as anyone else. Let's see how we make out in the next two games before we come to any conclusions.

If both gerrard and sterling were back it might work with Sturridge up front and Lucas and Stevie deep. I personally would love to see Lucas given a go playing higher up to press and get forward. I think he could do this well. Stevie will come back in we can all be assured of that.

If both gerrard and sterling were back it might work with Sturridge up front and Lucas and Stevie deep. I personally would love to see Lucas given a go playing higher up to press and get forward. I think he could do this well. Stevie will come back in we can all be assured of that.

Gerrard and Sturridge I meant

They may be better players individually, but collectively, the mid field seems more mobile and has developed an aggressive steak which was previously missing. Possibly due to desperation of being singled out as letting us down in Gerrards absence.
As for Sturridge, we have performed better in the middle of the park because we have an extra man in there with Louis being the only out and out striker, even though he has had plenty of support, that seems to arrive in numbers now which makes a massive difference.
Don't mend it, etc etc

Missing Stevie's set pieces. For me he has to be back in the team for Lucas.

Missing Stevie's set pieces. For me he has to be back in the team for Lucas.

Agree mate.

Here here.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable. We've proved we can cope without certain big named players in recent months and this bodes well. Timing of these injuries will also play a huge part and the run of fixtures they miss which can distort our view on if we are better or not without these players.

For me what's more important is that Coutinho plays. He's so important to our system and style of play that i dont mind who else plays in midfield (from the options we have). Look at our 3 losses this season which were clearly our least effective performances. Southampton at home and Arsenal & Hull away. Countinho started none of these games and he even came off injured when we were 2-1 up at Swansea before we had a bad last 25mins there. Of course we did win games without him (Sunderland away, Palace at home), but of all the injuries and suspensions we've had to deal with, his absences seem to hit us hardest.

He has not performed like he did last season since his injury. Don't get me wrong i really think he has the talent to go on and be one of the best playmakers in the world, but he needs to get back to the great heights he set when he first came in a year ago. He also is still looking a bit lightweight and would love him to spend a bit more time in the gym - take a leaf out of Sterlings book; he looks like hes starting to bulk out since he's been back in the team and can handle the physicality of the premier league.

Here here.

Or hear hear?

Or hear hear?

heer heer

heer heer

That's almost like beer, beer.

Has it made us better? 

Well I think without the captain our midfield has definitely looked better and Henderson has taken his performances up by a few notches.  Our midfield does looker better without him.  For the first time in over a decade and a half there should be a little pressure on the captain to make sure he delivers on the pitch.  But I don't doubt that he can raise the bar even at this stage of his career.  And this competition he will enjoy.  Sturridge's injury has seen the emergence of Sterling and obviously Suarez raising the bar again to a level only he can play at. 

Overall we are a better team than of a few weeks ago, but think both Sturridge and Gerrard can rise to the challenge and make us even better or atleast I hope so.

Bottom line is that both Gerrard  & Sturridge are world class and will fit any system ,
Are we better without them  ? In a word no , but we have played excellently without them , putting one or both back in will enhance the team and of course a slight adjustment or two will have to happen,
There is no reason at all to suggest that exchanging say Lucas for Gerrard or Sterling for Studge would F**k things up,

In Jan it's expected we hope that players will be brought in to strengthen so it's stands to reason adjustments will happen in any case, all in all the system is fine and working very well it's the players who have to adjust to it to allow it to thrive and improve it , simples really when we think about it, what was it Shanks said,  'it's a simple game complicated by idiots'

Brendan has us playing some great stuff and we will get better , suddenly others are taking note of our presence and are no longer considered a flash in the pan side,

Going to the Etihad and bossing city and almost , almost coming away with at least a point no other team have even come close to that,
Now I don't know about you but I think Maureen's morons will self destruct if we apply the same kind of pressure we have used recently, I'm looking forward to this today taking even a point will be sweet enough but I think we can take all 3 ,

COYR , make FT look a bigger chump than he already is, WHO. ? I hear you ask,

EXACTLY !



YNWA

Now there's a sufficient sample of games, my conclusion...

Losing Gerrard and Sturridge certainly made us better against the hammers, in one free flowing game against a non pressing team where our midfield had no problem to express itself (and even, it's not proven a team with Gerrard wouldn't have performed as well in this game, considering the freedom the surrendering Spurs gave to our midfielders).
Against Cardiff the "new" Liverpool got an expected result we would certainly have had with G&S as well (+ or - one goal). The enthusiasm of our younger midfield didn't even prevent the usual "bad second half when winning against inferior opposition", a problem often associated with Gerrard's lack of motivation for those games, but it seems he's not alone.
Against City it's arguable that Gerrard would have had difficulties to influence the game due to the quality of their midfield, and even if he was fit it may have been a better option to start someone younger, but Sturridge instead of any of our attacking players would certainly have scored getting passes like Suarez ones in this game (or the ones Gerrard could have delivered was him playing). Now our overall performance was very good, so it's arguable the team/formation was the best we could deploy for this game.
Against a Chelsea hacking the game at every occasion, Gerrard's experience and set pieces delivery would have been invaluable and I think we would have won with him instead of Lucas or Allen in our midfield three. Also with G&S available, we could certainly have managed team fatigue/ new injuries without having to use an unproven youngster playing for half an hour in a non-natural position.

We can be happy that the team performed without them and got an impressive result against Spurs, but there's no clear absolute improvement working against every team (out of the one of some individual performances, that were unsufficient before the Spurs game, but who can say that now that their confidence issue look resolved Sterling, Allen or Henderson wouldn't play as well with Gerrard and Sturridge in the team ?).
Out of that having some of our best players injured had one main effect : reducing our capacity to adapt to different opposition or to the frequency of games.

IMO both Gerrard and Sturridge will have no problem securing a starting place as soon they are back to fitness, comparing their quality to the one of our other players, and between Lucas and Allen there's certainly a spot to free for Stevie. The only problem is how to adapt our formation to include both Daniel, Coutinho and Sterling who all desserve to start most games.

It doesn't matter now with our injuries