Victor Valdes (Free Agent)

And the score read 3-0 at WHL last week which obviously means Mig's never let in a goal.

Do you realize how absurd that is.... the score read 3-0 at WHL but it read 0-3 at the Etihad.  And Mignolet was directly responsible for at least one, possibly two of the goals.  "Oh but the defence, it's not Mignolet's fault..."  Yes.  If Mignolet had been in the right position on the Aguero goal it wouldn't have happened.  End of.  So what is the deal, Mignolet is only expected to show up every other game?

I really don't get what the love-in is with Mignolet.  He is the worst keeper of any team in the top 6, hell there are even teams below us that have better keepers than him, Begovic, Guzan etc.  Apparently he's great because he makes world-class saves.  Sorry but I think pretty much every keeper in the league makes world class saves now and then.  I seem to remember us playing away at Reading a few years back and we pummeled their goal, had 20 shots on target or something, and their keeper made about 15 world-class saves (in one game!)---and they went down that season!

It's very odd, the conversations going on in this thread.  People want Valdes brought in but not if he's going to replace Mignolet.  It's great to support the players but NOT when it goes so far that you don't want a better player to come in.  At that point you are supporting an individual player at the expense of the club.  And no player is bigger than the club.

We wanted competition for Coutinho, so we brought in Lallana.  So if Lallana turns out to play better than Coutinho, should we still play Coutinho?!  or will Lallana have earned his place?  When Lallana was signed, no one said "yea, he'll be a nice option to have, but he'll never take Coutinho's spot in the team."  And yet here we are, with people saying that they only want Valdes so Mignolet can "learn" from him.  Um, what?  Valdes is still very young for a keeper, and in his prime.  If he comes here you can bet it's not so that he can be Mignolet's nanny. 

Do you realize how absurd that is.... the score read 3-0 at WHL but it read 0-3 at the Etihad.  And Mignolet was directly responsible for at least one, possibly two of the goals.  "Oh but the defence, it's not Mignolet's fault..."  Yes.  If Mignolet had been in the right position on the Aguero goal it wouldn't have happened.  End of.  So what is the deal, Mignolet is only expected to show up every other game?

I really don't get what the love-in is with Mignolet.  He is the worst keeper of any team in the top 6, hell there are even teams below us that have better keepers than him, Begovic, Guzan etc.  Apparently he's great because he makes world-class saves.  Sorry but I think pretty much every keeper in the league makes world class saves now and then.  I seem to remember us playing away at Reading a few years back and we pummeled their goal, had 20 shots on target or something, and their keeper made about 15 world-class saves---and they went down that season!

It's very odd, the conversations going on in this thread.  People want Valdes brought in but not if he's going to replace Mignolet.  It's great to support the players but NOT when it goes so far that you don't want a better player to come in.  At that point you are supporting an individual player at the expense of the club.  And no player is bigger than the club.

We wanted competition for Coutinho, so we brought in Lallana.  So if Lallana turns out to play better than Coutinho, should we still play Coutinho?!  or will Lallana have earned his place?  When Lallana was signed, no one said "yea, he'll be a nice option to have, but he'll never take Coutinho's spot in the team."  And yet here we are, with people saying that they only want Valdes so Mignolet can "learn" from him.  Um, what?  Valdes is still very young for a keeper, and in his prime.  If he comes here you can bet it's not so that he can be Mignolet's nanny.

Is there no end to the crap you come out with? I mean, I'm not Mignolet's biggest fan but trying to piece together your logic is a surefire way to bring on a headache.

You bang on in one thread about getting rid of Borini because he doesn't have the world-class quality yet you have been cheerleading to sign Diame.

You go on in another thread about only signing players who have a high workrate but have been frothing at the bit to sign Balotelli.

You bang on about Mignolet being the "worst" keeper in the top 6  - are you really saying he is worse than Szecesny or Tim Howard?

Most laughably of all you complain about fans being of the "Sky generation" when you only seem to advocate signing players who are the flavour-of-the-month in the tabloids.

You've moaned and bitched about us signing players like Mignolet, Henderson, Lallana, Lovren and Can because they're not big names so let's hear you put on the record, right now, how far down the table you expect us to finish with all these substandard players?

Do you realize how absurd that is.... the score read 3-0 at WHL but it read 0-3 at the Etihad.  And Mignolet was directly responsible for at least one, possibly two of the goals.  "Oh but the defence, it's not Mignolet's fault..."  Yes.  If Mignolet had been in the right position on the Aguero goal it wouldn't have happened.  End of.  So what is the deal, Mignolet is only expected to show up every other game?

I really don't get what the love-in is with Mignolet.  He is the worst keeper of any team in the top 6, hell there are even teams below us that have better keepers than him, Begovic, Guzan etc.  Apparently he's great because he makes world-class saves.  Sorry but I think pretty much every keeper in the league makes world class saves now and then.  I seem to remember us playing away at Reading a few years back and we pummeled their goal, had 20 shots on target or something, and their keeper made about 15 world-class saves (in one game!)---and they went down that season!

It's very odd, the conversations going on in this thread.  People want Valdes brought in but not if he's going to replace Mignolet.  It's great to support the players but NOT when it goes so far that you don't want a better player to come in.  At that point you are supporting an individual player at the expense of the club.  And no player is bigger than the club.

We wanted competition for Coutinho, so we brought in Lallana.  So if Lallana turns out to play better than Coutinho, should we still play Coutinho?!  or will Lallana have earned his place?  When Lallana was signed, no one said "yea, he'll be a nice option to have, but he'll never take Coutinho's spot in the team."  And yet here we are, with people saying that they only want Valdes so Mignolet can "learn" from him.  Um, what?  Valdes is still very young for a keeper, and in his prime.  If he comes here you can bet it's not so that he can be Mignolet's nanny. 

I think everyone would be delighted if Valdes came in and proved to be better than Mignolet . Everyone would love us to have the best goalkeeper in the world, the fact that some people don't believe Valdes will prove to be better than Mignolet is quite different.

I agree that there are quite a few goalkeepers better than Mignolet but I am not sure Valdes is one of them... but if he is I bloody hope he plays!   

It's hilarious when you talk of 'the sky generation' as though you are a wise old Liverpool fan who has had a season ticket since the 60s. I think I'm right in saying that you've never been to Anfield before and have only attended a Liverpool match when they have played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge?

erm no.  I'm originally from Kent.  The *last* match I went to was at the Bridge, yes.  But not the "only" match.  But, unfortunately, you're right that I don't go often---I've only been to Anfield twice. 

But yes.  The Sky generation only cares about highlights.  Mignolet makes world class saves, no denying that, but the stuff that doesn't go on MOTD etc, his wimpish little yells on corners, his horrible positioning on some of the goals he lets in, etc, those things you don't see. 

You bang on in one thread about getting rid of Borini because he doesn't have the world-class quality yet you have been cheerleading to sign Diame.

The funny thing is, you seem to bring up Diame more than I do.  Yes, I rate Diame, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Diame is better at his position than Borini is at his own position.  You must think Kenny is a numpty as well, eh?  because he had Diame all ready to sign in summer of 2012 before FSG unceremoniously sacked him.

You go on in another thread about only signing players who have a high workrate but have been frothing at the bit to sign Balotelli.

You're missing a key point here---I don't bang on about players who *only* have a high workrate.  I think we should sign players who have a high workrate AND quality.  One is not good enough.  Borini has (allegedly) a high workrate, but he has little to no quality.  Balotelli has proven quality, but little to no workrate.  The problem is: workrate can be improved, hell it can be even turned on at a switch with the right incentive.  Which is exactly what we did---you don't work, you don't get as much money, etc.  And against Spurs Balotelli worked very, very hard.  Whereas talent and quality CANNOT be turned on like a switch.  A player like Borini can't just "decide" to have more quality or "decide" to have a better touch and skill, etc.  Either you have it or you don't.  And he doesn't.

You bang on about Mignolet being the "worst" keeper in the top 6  - are you really saying he is worse than Szecesny or Tim Howard?

He's definitely not any better than either of them.

Most laughably of all you complain about fans being of the "Sky generation" when you only seem to advocate signing players who are the flavour-of-the-month in the tabloids.

Who exactly would that be?  I advocated for Konoplyanka weeks before it came out we were interested.  I also thought Rakitic would be a good signing, as well as Banega, Gundogan, Rondon, etc.  None of these players are "flavour of the month" tabloid players, and in fact none of them were ever even linked with us. 

You've moaned and bitched about us signing players like Mignolet, Henderson, Lallana, Lovren and Can because they're not big names so let's hear you put on the record, right now, how far down the table you expect us to finish with all these substandard players?

I have no idea.  And in fact I didn't "moan" about the players in general (although I do think some of them aren't good enough), rather, I "moaned" about the way we went about getting those players in.  Lovren, for example, seems to be a top CB, but he went to Saints in 2013 for £8m.  Why didn't we just buy him then, instead of having to pay £20m this summer?  etc.  Can I never complained about. 

Henderson was an awful signing at the time.  We spent, what, £16m on him?  and for the first 2 and a half years he did absolutely nothing.  It's great that he's finally starting to come around, but the summer we bought Henderson, Adam, Downing etc, we had just finished a few points out of CL places, we had been on a rampage since Kenny came back that January, and what did we do?  we tore the team up and instead of building the team around Suarez, we built it around Carroll with players like Downing and the like.  Henderson is turning into a decent player but developing him as a player should not have come at the expense of wasting two years of Luis Suarez's Anfield career.  That's a reality.  We prioritized developing players like Henderson when we had a world-class player in our team that we never fully took advantage of.

And now he's gone.

I came in here to look at the Valdes rumours and it seems to be full of the usual sh*te from Fed and I can't be bothered replying to any of his childish rants.

The funny thing is, you seem to bring up Diame more than I do.  Yes, I rate Diame, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Diame is better at his position than Borini is at his own position.  You must think Kenny is a numpty as well, eh?  because he had Diame all ready to sign in summer of 2012 before FSG unceremoniously sacked him.

You're missing a key point here---I don't bang on about players who *only* have a high workrate.  I think we should sign players who have a high workrate AND quality.  One is not good enough.  Borini has (allegedly) a high workrate, but he has little to no quality.  Balotelli has proven quality, but little to no workrate.  The problem is: workrate can be improved, hell it can be even turned on at a switch with the right incentive.  Which is exactly what we did---you don't work, you don't get as much money, etc.  And against Spurs Balotelli worked very, very hard.  Whereas talent and quality CANNOT be turned on like a switch.  A player like Borini can't just "decide" to have more quality or "decide" to have a better touch and skill, etc.  Either you have it or you don't.  And he doesn't.

He's definitely not any better than either of them.

Who exactly would that be?  I advocated for Konoplyanka weeks before it came out we were interested.  I also thought Rakitic would be a good signing, as well as Banega, Gundogan, Rondon, etc.  None of these players are "flavour of the month" tabloid players, and in fact none of them were ever even linked with us. 

I have no idea.  And in fact I didn't "moan" about the players in general (although I do think some of them aren't good enough), rather, I "moaned" about the way we went about getting those players in.  Lovren, for example, seems to be a top CB, but he went to Saints in 2013 for £8m.  Why didn't we just buy him then, instead of having to pay £20m this summer?  etc.  Can I never complained about. 

Henderson was an awful signing at the time.  We spent, what, £16m on him?  and for the first 2 and a half years he did absolutely nothing.  It's great that he's finally starting to come around, but the summer we bought Henderson, Adam, Downing etc, we had just finished a few points out of CL places, we had been on a rampage since Kenny came back that January, and what did we do?  we tore the team up and instead of building the team around Suarez, we built it around Carroll with players like Downing and the like.  Henderson is turning into a decent player but developing him as a player should not have come at the expense of wasting two years of Luis Suarez's Anfield career.  That's a reality.  We prioritized developing players like Henderson when we had a world-class player in our team that we never fully took advantage of.

And now he's gone.

This is what I mean.

You say Kenny nearly signed Diame and he wasn't a "numpty" so it was a good idea. You then spend an entire paragraph detailing how Kenny made the wrong signings and built the team around the wrong player.

You "never complained about" Can but you DID complain about signing players like Lallana since they wouldn't attract other big names to our team. Why would Can be different in that regard?

You say that it is essential that we sign players with workrate AND quality then in the next sentence say it ISN'T essential we sign players with workrate because it can be "turned on like a switch with the right incentive". So which one is it?

Logical inconsistencies in post after post. If you're going to put an argument forward at least be consistent and have the courage of your convictions to apply your arguments across all players.

And you didn't answer the main question about where we are going to finish with these substandard players you have been moaning so much about? The chief one being Mignolet!

Competition for migs from a high profile player can only be a good thing said far as I'm concerned.

You say Kenny nearly signed Diame and he wasn't a "numpty" so it was a good idea. You then spend an entire paragraph detailing how Kenny made the wrong signings and built the team around the wrong player.

This is actually a very interesting discussion and you bring up some good points.

Re: Diame and Kenny.  I think it's very clear that Adam/Downing/Henderson etc were all Comolli signings---those all took place in the summer of 2011.  Kenny had very little if anything to do with it---in fact Comolli was on Talksport or something a little while back saying Kenny wanted to try for Goetze but they went for Henderson instead.  So the team was definitely built around the wrong player, but that had little to do with it.

Comolli was sacked in April of 2012.  Diame himself said that he spoke with Kenny in May of 2012 and they had agreed that Diame would be signing on a free.  Then FSG sacked Kenny.  So in fact there is no conflict at all---the team was built around the wrong player, and was primarily Comolli's fault.  Kenny knew those players weren't very good, and so when he finally was free of Comolli, he started to go for his own players, i.e., Diame. 

You "never complained about" Can but you DID complain about signing players like Lallana since they wouldn't attract other big names to our team. Why would Can be different in that regard?

The difference is the money.  When you spend as little as we did on Can, the expectations are very low.  Everyone knows he is "one for the future."  But when your most expensive summer signing is Adam Lallana, then that says something about your ambition. 

Arsenal only paid a few million more for Alexis Sanchez than we did for Lallana.  And yet there is a huge gulf in quality.  The point is, if you are a top player looking on the outside in, and you see that Liverpool's top target for the summer is Adam Lallana, a player who has played in the top domestic league in his country for less than 2 years, whereas, say, Arsenal's top target was Sanchez, Chelsea's was Diego Costa, the Mancs wanted Di Maria, etc---it just shows those other top players that not only are we not interested in signing established, top players, but in fact we would rather pay top player fees for mediocre players.  See what I mean?
 
And in the end, Lallana *was* our biggest splash this summer.  I asked several times: would any of the players we signed this summer not have come to us without CL?  of course not.  They all would have come even last year.  *Maybe* Balotelli wouldn't have come, but even that's not a guarantee as he was playing for a non-CL team already.  We were told that we couldn't sign top players over the last few years because we didn't have CL.  And yet when we finally got it, our top priority was.... Adam Lallana.  A player who would have seen us as a monumental step up from Saints regardless of whether or not we were in the CL.

So yes, making Lallana your top priority when other clubs are making Sanchez and di Maria their top priorities---yes, that does send a message to top players, whether you like it or not.
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You say that it is essential that we sign players with workrate AND quality then in the next sentence say it ISN'T essential we sign players with workrate because it can be "turned on like a switch with the right incentive". So which one is it?

Fair point, I probably didn't phrase that as well as I could.  I suppose I look at it the way Rodgers said it during his interview post-Spurs---a player like Balotelli is going to have to work hard, because there's no other way to play at Liverpool unless you work hard.  Hence why they had that 2 hour meeting at Melwood before he signed---Rodgers wanted to know what was in Balotelli's head and whether he was serious about changing his ways and putting in a shift for the team.  Apparently he was satisfied.  It's early days but Balotelli worked very hard in the hour he was on the pitch against Spurs.

And you didn't answer the main question about where we are going to finish with these substandard players you have been moaning so much about? The chief one being Mignolet!

I said I don't know.  If I had to guess I would say we probably won't win the title.  I think we'll probably finish 3rd or 4th.  I also don't know what you're talking about in terms of all these "substandard players."  Sterling is on the cusp of being world-class.  Sturridge has proven he can contribute.  Coutinho is out of this world.  Markovic looks a very tidy player.  Even Can has looked pretty good thus far.  Moreno and Manquillo have also done well.  The only one in the starting lineup that sticks out is Mignolet.  Lucas and Borini are also quite awful but they're not in the starting XI so it's not as much of a big deal.

And yes, we finished 2nd last season, and we managed to do so without everyone pulling their weight.  and if we had had someone else instead of Johnson, someone else instead of Lucas, someone else instead of etc etc, we might have won the title.  Who knows.

Last year, the difference between first and second was 2 points.  That could mean, a 1-0 win in the 89th minute that ends up in a 1-1 draw because of a Mignolet mistake.  Bam.  Two points gone.  So yea.  I would like us to get a more reliable keeper.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.

This is actually a very interesting discussion and you bring up some good points.

Re: Diame and Kenny.  I think it's very clear that Adam/Downing/Henderson etc were all Comolli signings---those all took place in the summer of 2011.  Kenny had very little if anything to do with it---in fact Comolli was on Talksport or something a little while back saying Kenny wanted to try for Goetze but they went for Henderson instead.  So the team was definitely built around the wrong player, but that had little to do with it.

Comolli was sacked in April of 2012.  Diame himself said that he spoke with Kenny in May of 2012 and they had agreed that Diame would be signing on a free.  Then FSG sacked Kenny.  So in fact there is no conflict at all---the team was built around the wrong player, and was primarily Comolli's fault.  Kenny knew those players weren't very good, and so when he finally was free of Comolli, he started to go for his own players, i.e., Diame. 

The difference is the money.  When you spend as little as we did on Can, the expectations are very low.  Everyone knows he is "one for the future."  But when your most expensive summer signing is Adam Lallana, then that says something about your ambition. 

Arsenal only paid a few million more for Alexis Sanchez than we did for Lallana.  And yet there is a huge gulf in quality.  The point is, if you are a top player looking on the outside in, and you see that Liverpool's top target for the summer is Adam Lallana, a player who has played in the top domestic league in his country for less than 2 years, whereas, say, Arsenal's top target was Sanchez, Chelsea's was Diego Costa, the Mancs wanted Di Maria, etc---it just shows those other top players that not only are we not interested in signing established, top players, but in fact we would rather pay top player fees for mediocre players.  See what I mean?
 
And in the end, Lallana *was* our biggest splash this summer.  I asked several times: would any of the players we signed this summer not have come to us without CL?  of course not.  They all would have come even last year.  *Maybe* Balotelli wouldn't have come, but even that's not a guarantee as he was playing for a non-CL team already.  We were told that we couldn't sign top players over the last few years because we didn't have CL.  And yet when we finally got it, our top priority was.... Adam Lallana.  A player who would have seen us as a monumental step up from Saints regardless of whether or not we were in the CL.

So yes, making Lallana your top priority when other clubs are making Sanchez and di Maria their top priorities---yes, that does send a message to top players, whether you like it or not.


Fair point, I probably didn't phrase that as well as I could.  I suppose I look at it the way Rodgers said it during his interview post-Spurs---a player like Balotelli is going to have to work hard, because there's no other way to play at Liverpool unless you work hard.  Hence why they had that 2 hour meeting at Melwood before he signed---Rodgers wanted to know what was in Balotelli's head and whether he was serious about changing his ways and putting in a shift for the team.  Apparently he was satisfied.  It's early days but Balotelli worked very hard in the hour he was on the pitch against Spurs.

I said I don't know.  If I had to guess I would say we probably won't win the title.  I think we'll probably finish 3rd or 4th.  I also don't know what you're talking about in terms of all these "substandard players."  Sterling is on the cusp of being world-class.  Sturridge has proven he can contribute.  Coutinho is out of this world.  Markovic looks a very tidy player.  Even Can has looked pretty good thus far.  Moreno and Manquillo have also done well.  The only one in the starting lineup that sticks out is Mignolet.  Lucas and Borini are also quite awful but they're not in the starting XI so it's not as much of a big deal.

And yes, we finished 2nd last season, and we managed to do so without everyone pulling their weight.  and if we had had someone else instead of Johnson, someone else instead of Lucas, someone else instead of etc etc, we might have won the title.  Who knows.

Last year, the difference between first and second was 2 points.  That could mean, a 1-0 win in the 89th minute that ends up
in a 1-1 draw because of a Mignolet mistake.  Bam.  Two points gone.  So yea.  I would like us to get a more reliable keeper.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.

He also saved that penalty against Stoke remember - if he hadn't then BAM, two points dropped. Come on, get with it.

As inconsistent as Mignolet has been, I don't think he's the most pressing of concerns. That said, Valdes would be a great option as 2nd choice.

And by the way, Balotelli WAS playing for a Champions League side - AC Milan were in last years competition. I could accept your posts if there weren't downright shoddy lies in them.

This is actually a very interesting discussion and you bring up some good points.

Re: Diame and Kenny.  I think it's very clear that Adam/Downing/Henderson etc were all Comolli signings---those all took place in the summer of 2011.  Kenny had very little if anything to do with it---in fact Comolli was on Talksport or something a little while back saying Kenny wanted to try for Goetze but they went for Henderson instead.  So the team was definitely built around the wrong player, but that had little to do with it.

Comolli was sacked in April of 2012.  Diame himself said that he spoke with Kenny in May of 2012 and they had agreed that Diame would be signing on a free.  Then FSG sacked Kenny.  So in fact there is no conflict at all---the team was built around the wrong player, and was primarily Comolli's fault.  Kenny knew those players weren't very good, and so when he finally was free of Comolli, he started to go for his own players, i.e., Diame. 

The difference is the money.  When you spend as little as we did on Can, the expectations are very low.  Everyone knows he is "one for the future."  But when your most expensive summer signing is Adam Lallana, then that says something about your ambition. 

Arsenal only paid a few million more for Alexis Sanchez than we did for Lallana.  And yet there is a huge gulf in quality.  The point is, if you are a top player looking on the outside in, and you see that Liverpool's top target for the summer is Adam Lallana, a player who has played in the top domestic league in his country for less than 2 years, whereas, say, Arsenal's top target was Sanchez, Chelsea's was Diego Costa, the Mancs wanted Di Maria, etc---it just shows those other top players that not only are we not interested in signing established, top players, but in fact we would rather pay top player fees for mediocre players.  See what I mean?
 
And in the end, Lallana *was* our biggest splash this summer.  I asked several times: would any of the players we signed this summer not have come to us without CL?  of course not.  They all would have come even last year.  *Maybe* Balotelli wouldn't have come, but even that's not a guarantee as he was playing for a non-CL team already.  We were told that we couldn't sign top players over the last few years because we didn't have CL.  And yet when we finally got it, our top priority was.... Adam Lallana.  A player who would have seen us as a monumental step up from Saints regardless of whether or not we were in the CL.

So yes, making Lallana your top priority when other clubs are making Sanchez and di Maria their top priorities---yes, that does send a message to top players, whether you like it or not.


Fair point, I probably didn't phrase that as well as I could.  I suppose I look at it the way Rodgers said it during his interview post-Spurs---a player like Balotelli is going to have to work hard, because there's no other way to play at Liverpool unless you work hard.  Hence why they had that 2 hour meeting at Melwood before he signed---Rodgers wanted to know what was in Balotelli's head and whether he was serious about changing his ways and putting in a shift for the team.  Apparently he was satisfied.  It's early days but Balotelli worked very hard in the hour he was on the pitch against Spurs.

I said I don't know.  If I had to guess I would say we probably won't win the title.  I think we'll probably finish 3rd or 4th.  I also don't know what you're talking about in terms of all these "substandard players."  Sterling is on the cusp of being world-class.  Sturridge has proven he can contribute.  Coutinho is out of this world.  Markovic looks a very tidy player.  Even Can has looked pretty good thus far.  Moreno and Manquillo have also done well.  The only one in the starting lineup that sticks out is Mignolet.  Lucas and Borini are also quite awful but they're not in the starting XI so it's not as much of a big deal.

And yes, we finished 2nd last season, and we managed to do so without everyone pulling their weight.  and if we had had someone else instead of Johnson, someone else instead of Lucas, someone else instead of etc etc, we might have won the title.  Who knows.

Last year, the difference between first and second was 2 points.  That could mean, a 1-0 win in the 89th minute that ends up in a 1-1 draw because of a Mignolet mistake.  Bam.  Two points gone.  So yea.  I would like us to get a more reliable keeper.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.

I agree with some points you have made. I was also sceptical about our summer transfer targets, but seeing how BR has already developed some of the talents here, I'm going to wait a little while until I really start to judge.

Agree with you on Mignolet though. I don't feel that he is a top Gk. Seen him concede too many soft goals in the past season. If we can improve on him then that, imo, should be our main goal for the next window.

He also saved that penalty against Stoke remember - if he hadn't then BAM, two points dropped.

Yes he did.  But is that what we're stooping to at this point?  It's okay that Mignolet lost us 2 points away at City on the Negredo goal, because he saved us 2 points at Stoke?  really?

Anyway that Stoke example actually highlights exactly why I don't get what is wrong with him---his Liverpool career literally could not have started any better.  He had the entire team swarm him on that penalty, the entire red half of the city of Liverpool worshiping him.  He would have been on top of the world.  And yet he *still* plays very shaky, like a player lacking confidence, despite making that huge save, despite having no one challenging him so no fear of losing his place etc.  It's very odd.

And by the way, Balotelli WAS playing for a Champions League side - AC Milan were in last years competition. I could accept your posts if there weren't downright shoddy lies in them.

What?  you might want to check again, Milan are NOT in the CL this season.  Didn't even qualify for Europa league---they finished 8th.  So no, Balotelli would not have had CL this season.

I've only been to Anfield twice.

Less than myself! Haha.

Any competition is good for any player we just accept with GK that the second choice is just to replace the better one if injured etc . Valdes will certainly keep Mig on his toes who has made to many mistakes and whos distribution and ability to command his area is suspect

Less than myself! Haha.

Did he really post that? After his "sky generation" comment he posted that? Ha ha bigger shitehawk then I originally though so

And a goalkeepers bread and butter is saves

This ^^ [along with clean-sheets/goals conceded maybe?] 

Thing is also, keepers have a tendency to mature later as than the other positions and they play at a higher level as they age in comparison to say a striker/mid-fielder...

This ^^ and...

We just got shot of a mature keeper.

Definitely this ^^ Shabs. 

It's like I woken up into some weird, alternative reality. A time and place where selective amnesia is the norm. Saves [shot-stopping] are the bread n butter; 'keepers reach maturity [enter their prime later]? I'm sure I've read that before and watched it dismissed.

The on thing which I think you can't teach a goalie is reflexes and this is where Mignolet is so much better than Reina, for example.

How would one go about proving that mate? 

What would you be looking at: saves to shots faced maybe? What about goals conceded? Or clean sheets [I've read that mentioned]. We could definitely do that; (if you want) but...

I reckon the best way to support your assertion might just be the old 'fail-safe' "I saw it with my own eyes" because, it's as sure as there's sh*t in a cat, the stats won't. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone interested - Valdes stats:



* Key - GA = Goals Allowed: S = Saves: CS = Clean Sheets

Make of them what you will.

I suppose some (if they want to be consistent) might argue that Victor Valdes is in decline, particularly with the "bread n butter" stuff like shot-stopping and, for some, that alone will be reason enough to not want him here. This thread could be interesting.

Do you realize how absurd that is.... the score read 3-0 at WHL but it read 0-3 at the Etihad.  And Mignolet was directly responsible for at least one, possibly two of the goals.  "Oh but the defence, it's not Mignolet's fault..."  Yes.  If Mignolet had been in the right position on the Aguero goal it wouldn't have happened.  End of.  So what is the deal, Mignolet is only expected to show up every other game?

I really don't get what the love-in is with Mignolet.  He is the worst keeper of any team in the top 6, hell there are even teams below us that have better keepers than him, Begovic, Guzan etc.  Apparently he's great because he makes world-class saves.  Sorry but I think pretty much every keeper in the league makes world class saves now and then.  I seem to remember us playing away at Reading a few years back and we pummeled their goal, had 20 shots on target or something, and their keeper made about 15 world-class saves (in one game!)---and they went down that season!

It's very odd, the conversations going on in this thread.  People want Valdes brought in but not if he's going to replace Mignolet.  It's great to support the players but NOT when it goes so far that you don't want a better player to come in.  At that point you are supporting an individual player at the expense of the club.  And no player is bigger than the club.

We wanted competition for Coutinho, so we brought in Lallana.  So if Lallana turns out to play better than Coutinho, should we still play Coutinho?!  or will Lallana have earned his place?  When Lallana was signed, no one said "yea, he'll be a nice option to have, but he'll never take Coutinho's spot in the team."  And yet here we are, with people saying that they only want Valdes so Mignolet can "learn" from him.  Um, what?  Valdes is still very young for a keeper, and in his prime.  If he comes here you can bet it's not so that he can be Mignolet's nanny.

Well, your scrutiny for the "Sky Generation" fan was about some of the hiccups in his game at WHL. Now you want to start talking about the Etihad?

Listen, I know he has weaknesses in certain parts of his game but that won't take away the fact he's still a consistently great shot stopper (ya' know, the bread and butter stuff).

But you don't like the "love-in," and many don't and I'm inclined to believe its because Rodgers sold an iconic Rafa signing in less than ideal circumstances which similar to Kenny Dalglish's sacking, subsequently saw an unfair amount of Rodgers bashing. The lemon has still left it's bitterness in the mouth of people who will now scutinise, criticise Mignolet over anything they can, to somehow remedy the bitterness of Reina's departure. 

Just popped in to see what all the fuss is about.

It seem the fuss is not about VICTOR VALDES.

ON Topic ladies.
If you want to talk about Simon Mignolet http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44970.0.html
If you want to talk about the Spurs game http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,46714.0.html
If you want to talk about the City game http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,46683.0.html

If you want to talk about another subject look for it here first http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?action=search2

But you don't like the "love-in," and many don't and I'm inclined to believe its because Rodgers sold an iconic Rafa signing in less than ideal circumstances which similar to Kenny Dalglish's sacking, subsequently saw an unfair amount of Rodgers bashing.

Look.  This is not about Pepe and it's definitely not about Rafa.  It's true that some of us wanted Rafa back in 2012 and I still think he deserved another shot under better owners, but that is water under the bridge and Rodgers has really come into his own.  So just leave Rafa out of this.

As for Pepe, you can't deny that he was kicked to the curb in a really awful way, sent on loan to Napoli without anyone even having the bollocks to tell him beforehand etc.  That was very low and he deserved better than that.  We're a much better club than that.

But the fact remains that he was also in decline and hadn't played well at all the season before he went to Napoli.  Worst of all he just didn't look arsed, he wouldn't even go to ground on shots that at least were worth a try to dive for.  That was the worst part.

I don't think Mignolet is good enough for our club, or at the very least he hasn't shown yet that he is.  However, I don't think that keeping Pepe was the answer either.  We need a TOP keeper, a world class keeper like Courtois, like Cech, like Hart etc.  And neither Pepe in his current form nor Mignolet fit the bill.  The only reason I brought Pepe up in this summer was because there was no way on earth you could claim that Mignolet is somehow miles better than Pepe.  He's just not.  Again: in my opinion neither of them is good enough for us right now.  But if we're going to keep Mignolet, then why not keep Pepe as well?  you can't tell me one of them is "clearly" better than the other.

But we all know the answer as to why Pepe was sold---not because he's worse than Mignolet but because he was on almost triple the wages Mignolet is on. 

But again, whatever Mignolet does, is not about Pepe.  Was it Pepe's fault Mignolet let in that Negredo goal at City?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet made that mistake on the cross when we drew to Villa at Anfield last season?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet was in no man's land for the Aguero goal?  of course not.  That was Simon Mignolet's fault.  Honestly---you think that Mignolet has been so perfect that any criticism of him is because people are secretly angry at how Pepe left??  really?  that would only make sense if Mignolet had been without blemish, had never made any mistakes, had never been so wimpish on corners and crosses, had pinpoint accuracy on his distribution etc.  But the reality is in all of those areas he is sorely lacking and any criticism is more than justified.

So.  Would I have liked to have seen Pepe stay?  definitely.  But I would much rather see a top keeper who can come in and be better than BOTH of them. 

only time will tell if Valdes is that player.

Don't think Hart is world class, only England's number one by default.

As Nik Postinger of We Play confirmed, Spanish publication Sport alleged Valdes has agreed a deal in principle, with the medical and fitness tests being the only remaining blockade.

________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _________

 Mike Whalley of ESPN FC said the Reds have made room for Valdes' expected arrival:

    "A Premier League spokesman has told ESPN FC that any club wanting to amend their squad list between transfer windows would have to make an application to do so, which would then be considered on its merits.

    Such amendments can only be granted by the league body if a club have room in their squad to include an extra player -- but Liverpool do have space to accommodate Valdes. The Premier League allows up to 17 non-homegrown players in a 25-man squad, and as Liverpool have only nine, there would be plenty of room for Valdes."




Sorry if it's been posted before, can't make sense out of this thread, seems like a lets diss our goalie thread disguised as a Valdes thread.
Crying into strawberry milkshake over Reina going *weep weep* cry me a sparrow

Lets move on with the boss goalie we already have MIGS MIGSSS and get another one who is experienced but medically unsure (don't know if that's a saying?)

I was on topic mostly.

Valdes will make us stronger than we are at present, assuming he is "fit" in my humble opinion.

That's reason enough for me.

That's reason enough for me.

And that [make us stronger] is the only reason we should sign a player; any player.

If Valdes comes here, plays and is better than what we have then that can only be good. 

This is actually a very interesting discussion and you bring up some good points.

Re: Diame and Kenny.  I think it's very clear that Adam/Downing/Henderson etc were all Comolli signings---those all took place in the summer of 2011.  Kenny had very little if anything to do with it---in fact Comolli was on Talksport or something a little while back saying Kenny wanted to try for Goetze but they went for Henderson instead.  So the team was definitely built around the wrong player, but that had little to do with it.

Comolli was sacked in April of 2012.  Diame himself said that he spoke with Kenny in May of 2012 and they had agreed that Diame would be signing on a free.  Then FSG sacked Kenny.  So in fact there is no conflict at all---the team was built around the wrong player, and was primarily Comolli's fault.  Kenny knew those players weren't very good, and so when he finally was free of Comolli, he started to go for his own players, i.e., Diame. 

The difference is the money.  When you spend as little as we did on Can, the expectations are very low.  Everyone knows he is "one for the future."  But when your most expensive summer signing is Adam Lallana, then that says something about your ambition. 

Arsenal only paid a few million more for Alexis Sanchez than we did for Lallana.  And yet there is a huge gulf in quality.  The point is, if you are a top player looking on the outside in, and you see that Liverpool's top target for the summer is Adam Lallana, a player who has played in the top domestic league in his country for less than 2 years, whereas, say, Arsenal's top target was Sanchez, Chelsea's was Diego Costa, the Mancs wanted Di Maria, etc---it just shows those other top players that not only are we not interested in signing established, top players, but in fact we would rather pay top player fees for mediocre players.  See what I mean?
 
And in the end, Lallana *was* our biggest splash this summer.  I asked several times: would any of the players we signed this summer not have come to us without CL?  of course not.  They all would have come even last year.  *Maybe* Balotelli wouldn't have come, but even that's not a guarantee as he was playing for a non-CL team already.  We were told that we couldn't sign top players over the last few years because we didn't have CL.  And yet when we finally got it, our top priority was.... Adam Lallana.  A player who would have seen us as a monumental step up from Saints regardless of whether or not we were in the CL.

So yes, making Lallana your top priority when other clubs are making Sanchez and di Maria their top priorities---yes, that does send a message to top players, whether you like it or not.


Fair point, I probably didn't phrase that as well as I could.  I suppose I look at it the way Rodgers said it during his interview post-Spurs---a player like Balotelli is going to have to work hard, because there's no other way to play at Liverpool unless you work hard.  Hence why they had that 2 hour meeting at Melwood before he signed---Rodgers wanted to know what was in Balotelli's head and whether he was serious about changing his ways and putting in a shift for the team.  Apparently he was satisfied.  It's early days but Balotelli worked very hard in the hour he was on the pitch against Spurs.

I said I don't know.  If I had to guess I would say we probably won't win the title.  I think we'll probably finish 3rd or 4th.  I also don't know what you're talking about in terms of all these "substandard players."  Sterling is on the cusp of being world-class.  Sturridge has proven he can contribute.  Coutinho is out of this world.  Markovic looks a very tidy player.  Even Can has looked pretty good thus far.  Moreno and Manquillo have also done well.  The only one in the starting lineup that sticks out is Mignolet.  Lucas and Borini are also quite awful but they're not in the starting XI so it's not as much of a big deal.

And yes, we finished 2nd last season, and we managed to do so without everyone pulling their weight.  and if we had had someone else instead of Johnson, someone else instead of Lucas, someone else instead of etc etc, we might have won the title.  Who knows.

Last year, the difference between first and second was 2 points.  That could mean, a 1-0 win in the 89th minute that ends up in a 1-1 draw because of a Mignolet mistake.  Bam.  Two points gone.  So yea.  I would like us to get a more reliable keeper.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.

Federer, I have changed my opinion of you.

Although your logic is still (IMHO) batshit-crazy you have tried to address the points made in a honest and constructive way and that's all anyone can ever ask.

So fair fucks to you - let's hope you are right about Valdes