West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

He needs to meet them half way, and he isn't. Suarez did

LMAO Suarez met them half way? He met them 90% of the way. Benteke (OUR TOP SCORER) is not suarez. And we arent gonna magically find another SUAREZ. So we have to deal with the issues at hand, the midfield needs to do better.

Jayzus ... another bad result and the BR bashers are out. Bad result, drag up BR. Good result, Klopp improving things.

BIG money buys Benteke and Firmino need to do MUCH better. If Studge/Hendo/Ings/Origi are fit, they get dropped. But we're fu**ed with injuries.

Even so, still think we are BETTER than this. We're currently F***ing tragic. I STILL can't square the circle that were our 3 great away performances, with the floor falling out recently. Couple of good 1-0 *results*, but generally last 6 games have been ropey to say the least.

Klopp is honest in his press conferences, but not all players respond to public criticism well. Some need an arm round the shoulder, to be built up. Not saying it's the reason why we're doing poorly, but it IS annoying me recently. Imo it's NOT the way to a) improve moral and b) improve performances. He's only here a wet weekend, much too early to be doing trial by media.

Can't imagine that it's a very happy camp at the moment. Agree, the players need a kick up the arse, they haven't shown enough fight, enough intensity, desire, all that good sh*t. BUT imo you make yourselves and island, the world against us, work hard as a unit, players, mgmt, staff etc. to dig the F**k out of it. What goes on tour, stays on tour - have each others back, don't hang people out to dry.

F**k it, still early days, some signs are good, some not so good, just hope as a group they can regain some form...

Essentially we are missing Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge.

But even with that the defense still needed sorting so to blame Benteke for everything is really a joke

Lets not forget we've won 6 out of the last 9 points available, but to push on for one of those top 4 places we needed the full 9 points from the three games.  We won't get there without the right players.  Torres Suarez Sturrridge Carroll Balotelli Benteke. We signed 3 fantastic strikers in Torres Suarez and Sturridge, but 3 duds in Carroll Balo and Benteke. We can't afford the duds.

The Stoke game begins to look all the more interesting, and there is no doubt that some of the current first team must be playing for their LIverpool careers by now?

Essentially we are missing Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge.

But even with that the defense still needed sorting so to blame Benteke for everything is really a joke

We don't miss Gerrard on the field being brutally honest - a leader no doubt but we need players in their peak with a tough mentality. Not old players who are past it.

you don't get it do you Balotelli is sh*te.

Must be some pretty dumb clubs/managers then who felt differently but you know best

Must be some pretty dumb clubs/managers then who felt differently but you know best

at least read up a bit on his history and I obviously know far more than you if you think he will be back at this club

Jayzus ... another bad result and the BR bashers are out. Bad result, drag up BR. Good result, Klopp improving things.

BIG money buys Benteke and Firmino need to do MUCH better. If Studge/Hendo/Ings/Origi are fit, they get dropped. But we're fu**ed with injuries.

Even so, still think we are BETTER than this. We're currently f**king tragic. I STILL can't square the circle that were our 3 great away performances, with the floor falling out recently. Couple of good 1-0 *results*, but generally last 6 games have been ropey to say the least.

Klopp is honest in his press conferences, but not all players respond to public criticism well. Some need an arm round the shoulder, to be built up. Not saying it's the reason why we're doing poorly, but it IS annoying me recently. Imo it's NOT the way to a) improve moral and b) improve performances. He's only here a wet weekend, much too early to be doing trial by media.

Can't imagine that it's a very happy camp at the moment. Agree, the players need a kick up the arse, they haven't shown enough fight, enough intensity, desire, all that good sh*t. BUT imo you make yourselves and island, the world against us, work hard as a unit, players, mgmt, staff etc. to dig the f**k out of it. What goes on tour, stays on tour - have each others back, don't hang people out to dry.

F**k it, still early days, some signs are good, some not so good, just hope as a group they can regain some form...

I can understand conceding the first goal because it ought to have been a foul in the first place, and defending on your heels running back is something that every team in the world struggles with.
The second goal however is something that I cannot fathom happening in a team that wants to be at the top, or is aiming to be there. Three players drawn to the ball like flies to a garbage dump, all cancelled out by one pass, and it disintegrates and goes downhill from there.

That is the way most teams are getting their chances, and it is a high risk high reward strategy that the team isnt implementing well that is being punished by one or two passes and you end up a goal down. It was the same with Newcastle.

Klopp can talk, but he has to eventually come to the realization that teams will set up to counter attack Liverpool, even the big ones if it suits. This though is something else, the results are all over the place, and the performance is dire most weeks.

Lets not forget we've won 6 out of the last 9 points available, but to push on for one of those top 4 places we needed the full 9 points from the three games.  We won't get there without the right players.  Torres Suarez Sturrridge Carroll Balotelli Benteke. We signed 3 fantastic strikers in Torres Suarez and Sturridge, but 3 duds in Carroll Balo and Benteke. We can't afford the duds.

The Stoke game begins to look all the more interesting, and there is no doubt that some of the current first team must be playing for their LIverpool careers by now?

If benteke is a 'dud' and he's our top scorer. What does that say about the rest of the team?

Balotelli gave up on Rodgers after the Besiktas game. Balotelli played great all game and Besiktas were dirty but he still refused to get drawn into a stupid situation and get sent off. Our creativity in the final third was non-existent and what does Rodgers do? He takes off the only player working hard for the team, Balotelli. Well, it's no wonder Balotelli went off and looked like he had swallowed a wasp. What's worse is that Rodgers didn't even look at him as he went off. You know what the clueless Rodgers did also during this game? He brought on Manquillo when the side was clearly lacking creativity. The game went to penalties and we lost because thanks to Rodgers, one of the best penalty takers in Europe was off the field.

When you are a talented professional in any capacity and you know it, and you have worked under some of the best managers in your time, why the heck would you tolerate that level of stupidity? I can totally understand why Mario lost faith in him and didn't want to play for him because what Rodgers did was totally wrong. Of course though, the media lapped it up, made Mario out to be the spawn of Satan as usual and we lose a talent all because Mr Stubborn needed to replace the 'bad egg' Balotelli with one of his favourites. Even Emre Can went over to Balotelli as he went off because he acknowledged how hard he had worked in that game.

Here are the two photos below.

Didn't pick up on all of that.
Thanks for posting it.

Hardly surprising. 

Essentially we are missing Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge.

But even with that the defense still needed sorting so to blame Benteke for everything is really a joke

We need to stop missing those players, move on and learn how to actually scout.

This though is something else, the results are all over the place, and the performance is dire most weeks.

It's a strange one. Under BR, fair enough, at the start of this season the players seem to have tuned out.

But they look similarly low on confidence/belief now, after the (away results) upswing when Klopp took over.

Having only 1 fit forward (not counting Firmino) though is a massive problem, so Klopps hands are pretty tied there. Has no choice but to play Benteke, and try his best to fit (fit) players round him. It's not really working at the moment. Does he drop Benteke, stick Firmino up there? BR did it with Sterling for a spell and that wasn't bad (tho I'd have Sterling any day over Firmino). It's not ideal, don't know the answer, but need to somehow make best of the cards dealt.

Well, we still have to go again with the same crop of players and hope that they'll learn from their mistakes and improve.

There won't be the generally desired overhaul soonest; we've got to support what we have until the full change on mentality and/or personnel is complete. (Unfortunate truth)

at least read up a bit on his history and I obviously know far more than you if you think he will be back at this club

Where have I stated that he will be back at the club ? Is that the history of him playing at both Milan clubs, City and Liverpool as well as his country. But as I said you know best .

Balotelli has been incredibly mismanaged. I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have faults but every player does as does every person, its just the media and others who jumped aboard the social media 'Super Mario' hype train, loved nothing more than to build him up and then break him down. He's become footballs Justin Bieber, a celebrity the fans love to get hysterical about when it suits but are quite happy to turn their back on him and stick the knife in when it suits. No wonder the lad doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

If he had gone to Manchester United and had worked under Ferguson, he'd have thrived. Ferguson would have channelled all of that energy into something that benefited the team. Don't like being booed Mario? Score goals. Don't like the media giving you stick? Refuse to give interviews like I do. He'd have created a them and us culture with him and Mario against the world.

Mario has not played under one manager so far known for nurturing talent. Managers like Mourinho, they all want instant results and expect it without knowing how to man manage these people. Mourinho has had money to spend on proven talent at every club. When has this guy ever given youth a realistic chance? When has he ever opened his mind further than his capacity to only do things the Mourinho way? He hasn't. It's no surprise to me that Mourinho has been found wanting. Once the Mourinho way had been worked out, and it's time in football had come to a stylistic end, it was always going to catch this guy out, because he refuses to adapt or do things the way of others. Its his way or the high way. Ferguson did things his way, but he was willing to adapt all of the time like a meticulous perfectionist with low latent inhibition.
 
As much as I hate to say it, this is what separated the scum's manager from the rest of them and Guardiola from the rest of them. They see football as an engine and break it down so all of the pieces work cohesively as one unit, but they also put a degree of trust into the team, perfectly illustrated by Henry stating that Guardiola tells his teams his tactics will take them 80% and they must do the rest. That's not Guardiola given out orders. Its giving freedom to talented individuals who want to flourish to do their own thing. You know what that is? That is incredible man management. You need to let talent flourish and not strangle it by being overzealous with your own vision. You need an overall plan but you need to be flexible with it.

We were once a club with managers just like Ferguson, a club that stuck together in the time of adversity and had true man managers who nurtured young and local talent. The last manager to really do that here was Houllier, which is why Gerrard said he was like a father figure to him. It's also why Houllier was pretty successful with Melwood and why we won the treble we did. It's also why that core family unit that he built and nurtured was central to the side that won in Istanbul in 2005. We need to let Klopp bring that back and start nurturing players who want to give their all for the shirt and the fans.


Also, Rodgers during his time here was incredibly happy to build that 'them and us' culture with Suarez. He defended him to high hilt even though he did things far worse than Balotelli. The only reason for that was that without Suarez he wouldn't have been in a job half as long as he was. He had all the time in the world for Suarez who did worse things because it suited him. However, he had no time for Balotelli who didn't even do anything that bad whilst at the club, but the way he was cast adrift was disgusting and clearly nothing more than built upon this preconceived media created image of Mario.

With all due respect to Kenny, that's what happens when you bring in a manager who has been out of the game for so long

Before I continue, there's an appropriate smiley required for the above rubbish



What actually happens is three games at Wembley, a cup semi win over the neighbours, a League Cup, and a way back into Europe.

Now we continue.

I just don't get how fans can still defend Rodgers. Okay, he was our manager when we came second and close to winning the league but lets not pretend that didn't have a lot to do with Suarez literally ripping teams to shreds week in, week out. He was dragging us to the league title, only for us to falter at the final hurdle again.

Lets just remind you that rather than "falter at the final hurdle again", we brought the title race to the final day of that season, closer than any Liverpool coach has done since Kenny. That's not defending Rodgers, that is fact. Given that this sport is a team sport, that title challenge was a massive team effort, where everyone from Skrtel to Suarez chipped in. I don't think that's going to happen by the time we go to face Pulis and co again come May.

I am unbelievably pissed off because the spine of a strong team has been completely dismantled and replaced with B grade fodder and so many of our fans are lapping it up like its wonderful.

So many of our fans need to bloody wake up its unbelievable. The world of delusion they are living in knows no bounds. Time for a whiskey me thinks.

 

The B Grade fodder isn't hurting Leicester, or Watford, or Palace too much. It shouldn't hurt us too much either. The reason it hurts is because the team has no leaders in it. When the tough gets going, there's no fight, there's no battle, there's no leadership, they crawl into their shell. Hendo is the weakest captain of this club I've ever seen, allowing a lazy wimp like Balotelli to bully him over taking penalties. And as for the rest of them, Klopp tried the nice cop act, it didn't work, then he tried the hairdryer act, that didn't work. Then he had a one-to-one with Benteke and told him to get the finger out. That didn't work either. If he can't get through to them, then who can?

Onto today, and it was a game that I was always worried about. To start, it was played barely two and a half days after the long trip down from Sunderland. Then it was at a ground where we're inconsistent at best, and against a home side who had two more days for preparation, and no travel. Last year, we were two down in 5 minutes and collapsed. So the last thing we needed was conceding another early goal. We lasted 9 minutes this time. After that, it was a huff and puff job with very little end product. Can hit the bar, Lucas had a header off the line, and three penalty appeals were turned down. You kind of get them though when you're 4-0 up and don't need them.

Onto Benteke. When he's good, he's very good. When he's not, he's Heskey standard. He'll never be a Balotelli, it's very difficult to be a Balotelli, a lazy, divisive nutjob that no coach or club in England or anywhere else wants to deal with. His league contribution to this club was the sum total of 1 Goal, ONE. Benteke has his faults, but has already scored several multiples of that total in half a season. The comparison between them ends at that point. Anyone who reckons Balotelli is better is delusional.

So it's goodbye and good riddance to Upton Park, a significant hurdle down the years, as they take their bubbles to a sanitised ground. And so you'll never guess who the last Red in charge to win there was, wait for it...




....Brendan Rodgers.

However, he had no time for Balotelli who didn't even do anything that bad whilst at the club, but the way he was cast adrift was disgusting and clearly nothing more than built upon this preconceived media created image of Mario.

Mate, fair enough you see something in Mario.
But imo, we should consign him to history and never let him through the doors again, under any circumstances.

We don't miss Gerrard on the field being brutally honest - a leader no doubt but we need players in their peak with a tough mentality. Not old players who are past it.

That's rich in it he'd still piss all over those on that field today , I'd bet my fckin house on it he'd still score more than any of them .

That's rich in it he'd still piss all over those on that field today , I'd bet my fckin house on it he'd still score more than any of them .

he was still top scorer last season wasn't he.He went from being able to play until he was 40 in 13/14 to being passed it in14/15.
I cant help feeling his heart wasn't in it after Suarez left he new he had missed his best opportunity to win the league.

he was still top scorer last season wasn't he.He went from being able to play until he was 40 in 13/14 to being passed it in14/15.
I cant help feeling his heart wasn't in it after Suarez left he new he had missed his best opportunity to win the league.

Is right mate he was look I'm not saying for one minute he would walk into this team , but on his worst day he'd show more fight than them lazy fakers today , it's all well and good getting rid of players ,but you should have the brains to replace them with similar before you do , Rodgers left us in the sh*t of that there's no doubt Klopp will need a few Windows to sort this out , given time I think he will .

It's sad to say but if we're to be brutally honest, he's a big fish in a small pond when it comes to talent in the squad. The idea he'd get into any either of the top Spanish sides, never mind top English sides, is laughable.

thats why he needs 1- to 2 games on the bench and Tex given a chance

What actually happens is three games at Wembley, a cup semi win over the neighbours, a League Cup, and a way back into Europe.

Are you suggesting that is fine for a club like Liverpool? That is nowhere near an acceptable standard and just goes to prove my point a few days ago whereby fans have come to accept mediocre as the order of the day at Liverpool FC.

Lets just remind you that rather than "falter at the final hurdle again", we brought the title race to the final day of that season, closer than any Liverpool coach has done since Kenny. That's not defending Rodgers, that is fact. Given that this sport is a team sport, that title challenge was a massive team effort, where everyone from Skrtel to Suarez chipped in. I don't think that's going to happen by the time we go to face Pulis and co again come May.

That's faltering at the final hurdle. You can go and sugar coat it however you like, but we were on the brink of winning it but we faltered and fell just short.

The B Grade fodder isn't hurting Leicester, or Watford, or Palace too much. It shouldn't hurt us too much either. The reason it hurts is because the team has no leaders in it. When the tough gets going, there's no fight, there's no battle, there's no leadership, they crawl into their shell.

That's because they also have some better players. Vardy is a better striker than Benteke and is proven it for fun. Mahrez is a better player than all of our creative players other than Coutinho. As it currently stands, in form, he is better than Coutinho. They are not B grade fodder players at all. They are better players than what we have, because whilst we showed a complete lack of ambition bringing in a domestic level manager and domestic level overrated English players, Leicester City have gone out and bagged a credible Ranieri and talent on the continent. Lets stop accepting this mediocre nonsense and start accepting that other clubs who will not accept mediocre are surpassing us because we are allowing them to do so.

When the tough gets going, there is no fight, and that's because this is a side of domestic level players built by Rodgers. Other clubs have gone out and got the true talent abroad whilst we have splashed a ridiculous amount of domestic B grade fodder. As for leaders, yes there's none. That's because all of the players who had any ounce of fight in them have either retired, sold or were surplus to requirements by that genius called Rodgers. You can defend Rodgers all you like but the reality is we now have a team with no spine in it because Carragher retired, Agger was sold and not replaced, Gerrard was deemed surplus to requirements and Suarez sold and replaced with a player who is about as far away from Suarez in styles as possible.

Hendo is the weakest captain of this club I've ever seen, allowing a lazy wimp like Balotelli to bully him over taking penalties.

Nice attempt at trying to rewrite history. The reality is that Balotelli, when on the pitch, was the designated penalty kick taker. Rodgers himself even admitted that. Henderson was in the wrong for trying to spot up the kick in the first place.

And as for the rest of them, Klopp tried the nice cop act, it didn't work, then he tried the hairdryer act, that didn't work. Then he had a one-to-one with Benteke and told him to get the finger out. That didn't work either. If he can't get through to them, then who can?

And who bought all of these average players? In the entire time of Dalglish and Rodgers' management only two worthy additions were brought in, Suarez and Coutinho. When you look at the money that was spent by both, that is nothing short of disgusting. Oh, and yet again we are still waiting for another manager since Houllier to actually take a serious bloody interest in Melwood, another abysmal statistic. Funny how our last major honour came after the prospects of that very academy hit their peaks and Benitez helped elevate their form to the next level.

to use a previous managers well used word "character" is in short supply with these players as people they don't seem strong enough to play at the very top level.

All this despite having it thrown down our throats that they had great character at every opportunity.

Quite ironic really