Vote: Sacrifice Ruining Four Years Of Building?

You know.  Sitting here listening to peoples opinions on the forum and it's pretty evenly spread out but you don't need me to point that out.  Some want Rafa to stay, give him another season infact to show that we are not going in the wrong direction.  Others have seen enough and want to see a change that would be 'for the best'. 

But throw away just over four years of building the squad?  Come on.  That's a blow isn't it?

Fair enough.  Some people say we kept on to Gerard Houllier for too long.  I don't think that's much of a true statement.  Ged nearly got us the Prem but we were pushed over by Arsenals huge arse players.  Fair play.  He did his best.
Only when David Moores involved more money Ged went AWOL and signed the most ridiculous signings with the money.  Leading to Liverpool going back downhill and leading to his sacking.  Then Rafa stepped up to whip a Liverpool side in to winning shape again.

Here were/are Rafa's regulars for the following seasons:

2004/05 squad

Dudek or Kirkland - both sold

Finnan - still here
Carra - still here
Sami - still here
Josemi - sold (bought by Rafa)

Garcia - sold (bought by Rafa)
Gerrard - still here
Alonso - still here (bought by Rafa)
Riise - still here

Cisse - sold (originally bought by Ged)
Baros - sold

5th in Premiership
Champions League Winners
Runners up Carling Cup
2005/06 squad

Reina - still here (bought by Rafa)

Finnan - still here
Carra - still here
Sami - still here (Agger signed in January - wasn't a regular)
Riise - still here

Gerrard - still here
Alonso - still here
Momo - sold (bought by Rafa)
Kewell - still here

Crouch - still here (bought by Rafa)
Morientes - sold (bought by Rafa)

3rd in Premiership (amazing unbeaten run)
Super Cup winners
FA Cup winners
2006/07 season

Reina - still here

Finnan - still here
Carra - still here
Agger - still here (bought by Rafa)
Riise - still here

Pennant - still here (bought by Rafa)
Alonso - still here
Momo - sold
Gerrard - still here

Bellamy - sold (bought by Rafa)
Kuyt - (bought by Rafa)

3rd in Premiership
Community Shield winners
2007/08 season (present)

Reina - still here

Finnan - still here
Carra - still here
Sami - still here (Agger has been out for most of the season)
Riise - still here

Benayoun - still here (bought by Rafa)
Gerrard - still here
Mascherano - still here (signed by Rafa on loan - currently finalizing permanent deal)
Kewell - still here (Babel - signed by Rafa, benchwarmer)

Torres - still here (signed by Rafa)
Kuyt - still here (Crouch being left out as usual)

Currently fighting for at least 4th place in the Premiership
1st Qualifying Round of Champions League vs Inter Milan

OK.  So did that jog your memory a little bit?  It certainly did with me.  All off the top of my head.

Rafa has spent a hell of a lot of money.  But he's been building & still is building a Premier League winning side.

Games like Man City away make you think.  It's a F***ing joke that we couldn't win the game and come away with a draw.  But the chances was being created but no one there to finish them.  Not even Torres.  So what does that tell you?  That we're one, two world class signings away from putting together the strongest bid for the League?

Not to meantion the sh*te that our club has had to endure this season with our lieing b***ard owners nearly sending us all loopy with the situation about Rafa, the press, the lies, the money, the new stadium, talking to a different manager about Rafa's job and going out and telling the press,  Need I say more?


I want to see everyone's opinion in here.  Whether your against Rafa, unsure, want Rafa to stay.  Whatever your opinion post it with full confidence.  No wind up posts though.  They're not needed.  It's time we come together as fans and put aside all the disagreements because at this rough stage in our history, the last thing we want is fans against fans.

As we stand together we will shift these bas**rds out of our club & once again with ease, go for the League.

I feel we should stick with rafa. He certainly is building talent, He needs substantial financial backing in order to show us what he can really do and I cant stress that enough, whether he will get it or not will decide whether we will win the league under him in my opinion. He needs to be able to buy his first choice players not second third etc.

I do think he is overlooking all of our young talent, too many of them are being wasted sitting in the reserves and they need to be used, strikers are the best players to bring up from the reserves in my opinion and we have needed someone who can score goal upfront with torres this season. I feel he should use them alot more than he does and they shouldnt be loaned out so much, if Anderson and Hammill dont come back and break into the first team next season I am going to lose my mind.

I also think he needs to stop being so loyal to some players, At times it works e.g. crouch when he first joined but when it doesnt he should really take notice of that and act upon it. Kuyt has worked extremely hard this season but hasnt offered exactly what we needed which was goals, goals win games and its that simple. We should rotate all teams do it really but no so many players each time, some games we rotate as many as 5 6 players and that is too many.

We need to focus upon making the team strong and showing teams why anfield is a famously difficult place to come to. I feel anfield is no longer as daunting to opposition teams and we need to reinstall that fear factor that we had last season. A team wants to come to anfield, Crush them with ruthless attacking, sharp finishing defend like your life depends on it and tear apart the opposition team with acurate passing. Show teams what a fortress anfield really is and this can only happen with the fans and players in unison, The fans react well to good play with great support,noise and shaking up the opposition by acting as the 12th man, and the players bounce of the fans support with good play so they need one another for it all to work. 

This all comes together with everyone working together by supporting one another well and acting like fans should and sticking by your team through thick and thin.

YNWA.

I agree with you Court,if we get rid of Rafa it will be a case of starting all over again and probably another 3 or 4 years to get back to where we are.Without checking we have the 2nd best goals against in the premier league,so you are correct we are lacking in the striking department and badly need a good left winger and another good striker to play alongside Torres who can put the ball in the net on a regular basis.We have strength in depth in midfield and as long as Mascherano signs a contract we will be secure for the immediate future.

Excellent post Court.

For me it's without doubt that Rafa should be allowed to continue

People who call for Rafa to be sacked are, in my opinion, thinking short term, short sighted.

If Rafa goes then we have to:-

 a.) Find a manager of a similar quality who wants to come and work at Anfield with the current owners H&G and mark my words, if we get a new manager and it turns out to be the wrong one and then have to find another we will see this Club nose dive.(see point b)

b.) See many of Rafa's signings leave to pursue their careers elsewhere and not witness the development of younger players signed by Rafa.


Its been a tough season on and off the field and a rollercoaster of a ride. Lets think long term. Rafa is one of the best managers in the world,who if sacked, would only go on and win trophies for another team somewhere else whilst we're left with a 'yes' man put in place by H &G (Klinsmann).

To all you doubters out there, I say have some patience and faith. If people knock us in the press, on Sky or just mates down the pub its only because they are envious of LFC. Whatever the results, we have to get through this season and stick together, get behind the manager and we will see the rewards in seasons to come.

There is no question at all that Rafa should continue next season.

I know you can't sack all our forwards, except for Torres... but that is what needed now... not the sacking of the manager who put a game plan together to create chances for our forwards... which happened.

It's our forwards that can put the thing in the back of the net that it is at fault - sacking a manager for surreal finishing by, so called acomplished, very highly-paid forwards... is not the answer.

Kuyt, Voro - hang your heads in total shame this season, you are an embarrasment to your shirts and your past. Get rid... Crouch you are given the benefit of the doubt, until after the game tomorrow night.

IRWT

Nemeth and Jordi - start getting your boots get ready... because I think you might be playing a few first team games from here to May...

I would love to see Nemeth given a chance, but Brouwer? No way. The lad has done nothing to impress me whilst playing against other reserve teams, I haven't seen anything to convince me he could cut it in the first team.

I'm in total agreement regarding keeping Rafa, too many good managers are out on their arses after too few games, Jol for one, Allardyce for two, not since the likes of Slur Alex and Arse have managers had the time to to build a squad, instant success is required these days and it rarely happens, (except in the case of us in 05) and thats the problem with the critics, too happy to stick their noses an knifes into our backs and business !
we were the first British team in 6 years to lift "old big ears" and instantly we were expected to win the Premier League the following season with the team that Houllier left us with !
Now I'm not saying we were lucky to win the cup , but consistency is whats required in the League and we didnt/haven't got it, what we had was a belief in ourselves that the European cup/Champions league belonged to us and over the period of spaced out games we had the fire in our bellies and the hearts and legs of two scousers ( no names required !) to gee up the rest of team for a few games!
We need more commitment from more players and less rotation from Rafa (2-3 maybe not 5-6!) Rafa's The (Stubborn) man !
we need a settled ownership (whoever they may be )who are prepared to give the manager more time  unlike Newcastle  & Spurs ! 
I also wonder how long the managers who eventually replace Alex and Arsene will get ?
Now lets get a move on starting with tuesday night  I.R.W.T !    Y.N.W.A !

I would love to see Nemeth given a chance, but Brouwer? No way. The lad has done nothing to impress me whilst playing against other reserve teams, I haven't seen anything to convince me he could cut it in the first team.

Fair enough, agreed on Brouwer (just think he could do it, personal, be it irrational feeling and opinion!)

...would give Insua a shot in the first team... and Mikel San Jose.... tell me they don't look the part on the flank and at the back... and I wouldn't have loaned Hobbs either - that one I can't defend for Rafa... if you want character builiding experiences at the ELITE level, no better place than our dressing room at the minute....

Nemeth def deserves his chance THIS season.
 

Finally a good thread with actual facts and stats. I would stick with him definetly he is working on something here, he has a game plan but i think has just let him self down in executing it when it comes to fielding the youth side. I really would like to see a Liverpool youngster to burst onto the scene that would be anactodal evidence that Rafa has set up a good youth policy and shut some media outlets up.

I dont think that if we get a new manager we will win the PL within the first 3 years, not with the owners we have and a change of manager to the nucleus of our team would be somewhat of a shock to the system. Besides i like Rafa alot and dont thik that he has ever been given the credit and recognition he deserves by the media.

Excellent thread Court mate!

My sentiments exactly fella! We're still on our way to becoming a much stronger side! Yes, we've had a bit of a sh*te season upto now but I'm sure a (still entirely possible, we've a much better squad than 2005) Champions League win would appease our more 'fickle' of fans. Only the most ardent of gobshites would be able to bypass that! :

Nice to see some common sense being spoke mate!

Great post Court

I have to say Im really not sure what to think at the moment. Some of Rafas decsion making and tactical awareness have been very disapointing this season. And on occasions it has looked as if players havent known wtf they are doing. But having said that the playing staff have also not performed to their full potential.

To be honest if we lose Tuesday then Rafa will be gone by the weekend, those yanky bastads are looking for an excuse and after Saturday this will leave them no choice in my opion. I would not like to see this happen on 3 fronts. 1. It will mean a mass exodus of playing talent 2.It will mean another number of years for a new manager to build a premiership winning team. 3. Jose is waiting in the wings which will really make me sucidal.

In retrospect it could be argued that Rafa has had too much success to early on and this could be the one of the reasons why we are having a kick back effect at the moment. I think this could have been the case with Jose Moronhio too, too much success at times can make people arrogant and blind to the truth at times, and along with all the pressure from the media stories and all the other crap that has gone on a falling out between owner and manager can often lead to partnerships ending.

I hope it doesnt come to this but the fans will only take so much before they begin to turn on Rafa because of his lack of results. When I was coming out of the ground Saturday, I was talking to a old kopite as we were walking along the Wallbrek Road, he had been coming to Anfield since he was 10 years old and was even one of those who was a regular in the boys paddock( that was a long time ago we had one of those) I have a whole hearted respect for those guys as their love of the club holds no bars. But as we parted his last sentance was "its time for him to go". That kinda hit home a bit as the old brigade tend to be a bit more conshentious about their opions. I hope Rafa will know when to call it a day and leave when he thinks its right, as I would not like it if he left being hated, I would prefer it if he left being respected and loved for the glory he gave us.

Rafa will leave if we don't make 4th spot... he won't need to be sacked.

And will straight into a top, top job in Italy or Spain... probably Spain... is that Barcelona looking for a new manager?

I R W T

Support is about being positive about the battle ahead in team's and manager's hour of need. End of.

Great post Court.

I'm not sure what to think about Rafa at the moment, i really thought this year we would be challenging for the title, but as Eddie has pointed out in numerous threads, we have created loads of chances and just not taken them, so the blame there lies with the players.

But as prag has mentioned above, some of his decisions have been strange this season. I would love him to stay, but now i really think for him to keep his job he needs to win the champions league, the owners are looking for an excuse to get rid of him now.

I would give him 3 years (if he's fully backed by the board) to win the PL, if we haven't won by then, then i would start to question whether he can take us any further, but at the moment, he has my backing.

Rafa will leave if we don't make 4th spot... he won't need to be sacked.

And will straight into a top, top job in Italy or Spain... probably Spain... is that Barcelona looking for a new manager?

I R W T

Support is about being positive about the battle ahead in team's and manager's hour of need. End of.

Let correct myself - Rafa will leave if we don't make 4th spot AND we don't win the Champions League final.

Ever the optimist... I R W T.

Great thread court.As an old fart myself (over40 years below the mast) I can understand where the bloke talking to pragmatic on saturday is coming from.
Whilst as far as I'm concerned Rafa is the best man for the job, I believe that if were not successful over the 2 Milan games, then Rafa will go- why, because he is a proud Spaniard who will not tolerate the inevitable media sh*te that would follow. We are a club of INTEGRITY and so is the current manager, so starting with tomorrow we must voice our support for him and the team.
IRWT remember YNWA

Sacrifice 4 years of building?weve not moved on much in those 4 years have we?look at utd they just go from strength to strength Arsenal had a average season last year but look at them now.

Sacrifice 4 years of building?weve not moved on much in those 4 years have we?look at utd they just go from strength to strength Arsenal had a average season last year but look at them now.

Well the expectations that everyone now has on us to win the league shows that we have moved on hugely, when Rafa came who expected us to be title challengers, him even getting us considered speaks volumes for me.

Sacrifice 4 years of building?weve not moved on much in those 4 years have we?look at utd they just go from strength to strength Arsenal had a average season last year but look at them now.

Why compare us to arsenal, That is the perfect example of why rafa should stay and what he is doing, What was the last thing arsenal won? I bet we have won something since that, Rafa is building a team, it takes time. Instant success is not a reality how long will it take for people to realise this. Rafa had to get rid of the players that needed to go as soon as he got here and that took some time and now people want us to do that allllll over again, go through players getting sold new players coming in and having to wait for the team to gel.

People who want rafa to go fair enough he has made mistakes but all managers have to be honest, We need to stick by him. As for man u fergie has money piled into his hands when he wants it hence his success. Fans wanted him out after a few years because he wasnt living upto expectations and the board stuck by him and look at him now, but people would rather us turn into a newcastle/tottenham getting rid of any manager who doesnt challenge for the title.

We need rafa to have the ingredients he needs for success in order to manage in his style and that is 1 thing 1 simple thing he asks for, substantial financial backing, is that so much to ask. I think rafa would sell alot more players that he thinks arent good enough given decent backing but with having to buy second best he is forced to keep players because it means he now needs them in place of the players he cant get.

A lot more positivity than I expected to be honest!!

I'm not saying your all a bunch of moaning gets

But I was right.  The some views are spread out and generally there's a lot more optimism about keeping hold of Rafa.

Sacrifice 4 years of building?weve not moved on much in those 4 years have we?look at utd they just go from strength to strength Arsenal had a average season last year but look at them now.

I agree with you to some extent there mate.  But basically Rafa has improved us bit by bit over the last 4 seasons and as you can see he's sold a lot of players that he's bought in the past.

With Rafa's signings it's basically hit or miss.

HIT

Xabi Alonso - £10,000,000
Pepe Reina - £6,500,000
Fernando Torres - £20,000,000
Momo Sissoko - £5,000,000 (sold this January for £8,000,000)
Javier Mascherano - £0 (Loan deal runs out in the summer, permanent deal in the works worth around £17,000,000)
Daniel Agger - £5,000,000
Robbie Fowler - £0

BIT OF BOTH
Djibrill Cisse - £14,000,000 (not one of Rafa's signings but money could of been used elsewhere)
Peter Crouch - £7,000,000
Luis Garcia - £6,000,000 (used in a part-exchange for Fernando Torres, worth around £4,000,000)
Jermaine Pennant - £8,000,000
Dirk Kuyt - £9,000,000
Bolo Zenden - £0

MISS
Josemi - £2,500,000
Fernando Morientes - £6,000,000
Andriy Voronin - £0
Kromkamp - £0

The list goes on... obviously I haven't noted down every signing.  Just an example if you will.

But this really is a master plan of building for success that Rafa has locked in his brain.  We will become Champions under Rafa.  He's building us back up to what we once were back in the 70's & the 80's.  Unstoppable.

Good analysis of rafas signings Court, another thing to take note of would be as you said you obviously havent named them all.

He has signed alot of youngsters aswell who have most certainly been hits in the reserves e.g. nemeth, leto, insua and i hope they will be hits in the first team sometime soon.

Good analysis of rafas signings Court, another thing to take note of would be as you said you obviously havent named them all.

He has signed alot of youngsters aswell who have most certainly been hits in the reserves e.g. nemeth, leto, insua and i hope they will be hits in the first team sometime soon.

Exactly mate!

And if you take the youngsters down for example, Babel, Anderson, Lucas, Hobbs, Nemeth.  It's a success plan that has been proven by Arsenal as well!

We're always signing young, new & exciting talent.  It's only a matter of time before it's graduation day for some of them.

Just look at Stevie G.  Argueably the best player for LFC alongside King Kenny.  Came from the youth.  Broke in to the first team.  And other people thinking.  "Who's this young lad"?  No one had a clue what Gerrard would be capeable of in 5 years time.  That's the opinion that I've got on some of our newest recruits to the youth & reserves.  Other examples of Michael Owen that always scored goals for fun for us.  Jamie Carragher who is absolutely unbeatable at the back. 

It's not all about signing £20+ million players every season.  Young players are absolutely essential for the future.

Exactly. Things are alot brighter than they seem if you look into it deeply. Thats the way i try to look at it aswell, you never know how great they can be given a chance. Right now i feel annoyed that they arent being given a chance but i feel that this is coming from me feeling dissapointed and irrational thinking due to bad results from such high expectation at the start of the season.

I have a feeling rafa has a plan and that is part of the reason he wants to stay so much. Imagine the feeling you would get seeing a player you bought and had faith in when they were young grow and develop into one of the best in the game. How amazing must that be. This is why Arsene Wenger loved thierry henry so much, He picked him up when people thought he was just another winger and unearthed his potential and made him great.

Our youth setup is fantastic and i have faith in rafa helping alot of them to succeed.

I'm not saying your all a bunch of moaning gets

Terrible thread this Court. 

Spot on mate. The building process is still on it's way and to get rid of Rafa would certainly put us back in my eyes. The youth and the reserves are progressing well and that hopefully indicates a longer future of not having to solely rely on transfer funds. In turn probably helping us to compete for the best players in the transfer market.

But, I feel the 'play your best players' notion has to be laid down now. And if Rafa doesn't, he'll only be adding more pressure on himself if the team doesn't get the results. We don't make more changes to our team than the other big three, but when we make these changes it will usually be key players like Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano and sometimes Torres.

We just have to let Rafa do his job and see what happens at the end of the season.

Exactly. Things are alot brighter than they seem if you look into it deeply. Thats the way i try to look at it aswell, you never know how great they can be given a chance. Right now i feel annoyed that they arent being given a chance but i feel that this is coming from me feeling dissapointed and irrational thinking due to bad results from such high expectation at the start of the season.

I have a feeling rafa has a plan and that is part of the reason he wants to stay so much. Imagine the feeling you would get seeing a player you bought and had faith in when they were young grow and develop into one of the best in the game. How amazing must that be. This is why Arsene Wenger loved thierry henry so much, He picked him up when people thought he was just another winger and unearthed his potential and made him great.

Our youth setup is fantastic and i have faith in rafa helping alot of them to succeed.

Can't knock your opinions mate.  You're spot on.

Our Owners don't have a clue.  And I bet they haven't even made one single trip down to Melwood to see what Benitez has turned that place in to.  Everywhere you look, there are youngsters with huge potential.  Some of them local that wear the badge on their sleeves.  We've got some of the best coaches in the world working on these players as we speak.

For the likes of Thierry Henry he didn't look like a Bergkamp or a Kanu.  But there was obvious potential there.  Wenger knew it.  And the amount of personal success Thierry has achieved is phenomenal.  He is in my opinion.  The best striker the Premiership & the World has seen in modern times.  A great goal scorer, an amazing individual player.  Plus he loves LFC. 

Moving back on to the discussion of our club.  A lot of our fans have been blinded by the inconsistency and moral of the team of late to realize what we are building on.  Forget this season.  If we get 4th and win the Champions League remember that.  Nothing else.

Can't knock your opinions mate.  You're spot on.

Our Owners don't have a clue.  And I bet they haven't even made one single trip down to Melwood to see what Benitez has turned that place in to.  Everywhere you look, there are youngsters with huge potential.  Some of them local that wear the badge on their sleeves.  We've got some of the best coaches in the world working on these players as we speak.

For the likes of Thierry Henry he didn't look like a Bergkamp or a Kanu.  But there was obvious potential there.  Wenger knew it.  And the amount of personal success Thierry has achieved is phenomenal.  He is in my opinion.  The best striker the Premiership & the World has seen in modern times.  A great goal scorer, an amazing individual player.  Plus he loves LFC. 

Moving back on to the discussion of our club.  A lot of our fans have been blinded by the inconsistency and moral of the team of late to realize what we are building on.  Forget this season.  If we get 4th and win the Champions League remember that.  Nothing else.

Thats exactly how i feel about it. We should just concentrate on the positive come the end of this season, the only time we should refer to the negative is by saying that is what needs improving.

Things arent always as bad as they seem and rafa does seem to get rid of all the bad players as soon as the season in which they have been underperforming comes to an end so i cant see players that have been terrible this season staying and being here next season.

Great post Court, I agree with most of what you say. I do think the club is in the worst state all round that I have witnessed in 51 years as a supporter though. I don't really think Rafa should go, at least give him another year, whatever transpires at the end of this season. There is just nobody comparable who is available for a start, and it will only create more turmoil. I do just wish he would start with his strongest side. I f we had done that on Sat. we could have taken a lead and then rested the big guns. Different approach, but they still get rested! I did recently try to start a topic on comparing Rafa with Furgusset in the way he has slowly compiled a squad of young talent in the reserves for the future. It was obviously frowned upon by the moderators but, to get rid of Rafa now will undo all that hardwork. We need to keep loyal for at least another season to see which direction this all takes us in. Remember Furgusset and Wenger took 5 years to get a consistant winning formula. We are almost there but it frustrates the F**k out of me seeing the best players rested and us coming unstuck.

Those who want to see immediate result, may not think to bring puzzles together takes time and patience. During that process we make mistakes, but we know we finally get results: whole picture, because we know we have every detail to to bring that picture together. Every try is a step forward even it's not right. But we can't say we don't even try to do anything!
 The only thing we need to be patient and know we will get the best result of what we expect, much better than we expect!

I like the saying only those who do nothing, make no mistakes.

One of the better posts ,I had a hard time trying to convince reds fans in the pub to keep the faith, as i stated in a previous post I havnt  always agreed with leaving good players on the bench but you have to back the manager ,as stated above this is a team building process and i firmly believe given the time it will come good, sadly though i dont think he will be given that time, but here is hoping he does  YNWA  IRWT

i wonder what the votes would look like if we had a third option 'undecided'. It will really show how the forum members feel. I want him to stay.I also blame the players, not Rafa.

i wonder what the votes would look like if we had a third option 'undecided'. It will really show how the forum members feel. I want him to stay.I also blame the players, not Rafa.

Good idea.

Option added.  Sorry if your vote was preferred as unsure

I think if Rafa was to go now or at the end of the season then it would undo all the good work over the last few seasons in building the first team squad and also the youth/reserve teams. He is gradually building a squad which will be challenging for the league in the near future. This is also being done on a transfer budget which is nowhere near the other top clubs, no matter what the media would have people believe. If another manager was to come in it would take him at least a couple of seasons to build his team and implement his ideas so we would be no further forward in my opinion.

Sure Rafa has made mistakes this season and I have been frustrated with a lot of performances but as I have said numerous times the players have to take a big part of the blame for our current position. They simply have not performed anywhere near the level I would expect. I understand if a player is out form/fitness or maybe not good enough, but what I can't understand is a lack of desire and pride in the shirt and this has been too evident from some performances this season. But it is down to Rafa to get the best out of the players and motivate them to perform at the level expected for Liverpool Football Club.

It is interesting that out of 38 votes only one voted for Rafa to go so I would be interested in hearing from the anti-Rafa members to see what their reasons would be from sacking the manager and how this would benefit the club.

I think a good start to building a Premiership winning team is to buy players not like Pennant, Bellamy or Crouch.
Torres is a good start, Mascherano would also be a good purchase with Babel & Lucas being certain of being top quality players when older.

Cute, but you need $$$$$$$$

Good idea.

Option added.  Sorry if your vote was preferred as unsure

Nah Court, I know Rafa is good for the LFC. The players just need to bring their 'A' game. There is no excuse for the loss last week. The players' fault.

id like to meet the f**ker that voted for sacking rafa

fantastic posts court! you get a plus for this mate, its also good to see some positivity coming out now.

ive had my rant over in the anti-rafa thread so i wont do it here

Rafa will prove to be the best manager this club has had since Paisley... IF the irrational glory hunters don't get to his neck first.

I R W T

The fact is, what Liverpool need are matchwinning players. Rafa had a lot of sh*te to get rid of after Houllier, and that's why he, at first went for quantity over quality. AT the moment, the only players we have capable of grabbing that goal, saving a match are Gerrard and Torres. Let's see how many the other members of the "Big Four" have.

Manchester United:
Rooney
Tevez
Scholes
Giggs

Chelsea
Anelka
Drogba
Lampard

Arsenal
Adebayor
Van Persie
Rosicky
Fabregas

Theres probably several I've missed.

Oh yes, I believe Rafa should stay on.

The fact is, what Liverpool need are matchwinning players. Rafa had a lot of sh*te to get rid of after Houllier, and that's why he, at first went for quantity over quality. AT the moment, the only players we have capable of grabbing that goal, saving a match are Gerrard and Torres. Let's see how many the other members of the "Big Four" have.

Manchester United:
Rooney
Tevez
Scholes
Giggs

Chelsea
Anelka
Drogba
Lampard

Arsenal
Adebayor
Van Persie
Rosicky
Fabregas

Theres probably several I've missed.

You know that's something I've never thought about.

I told you we're only 1 or 2 world class players short of chellenging for the League  

The fact is, what Liverpool need are matchwinning players. Rafa had a lot of sh*te to get rid of after Houllier, and that's why he, at first went for quantity over quality. AT the moment, the only players we have capable of grabbing that goal, saving a match are Gerrard and Torres. Let's see how many the other members of the "Big Four" have.

Manchester United:
Rooney
Tevez
Scholes
Giggs

Chelsea
Anelka
Drogba
Lampard

Arsenal
Adebayor
Van Persie
Rosicky
Fabregas

Theres probably several I've missed.

Oh yes, I believe Rafa should stay on.

I agree with you but take giggs and rosicky and scholes out of that list because none of them score for their team that often really. put people like ronaldo and eduardo in and its accurate. We do need more match winners though that is the way for us to win more often then opposition cannot mark 2 players out of the game they have to mark alot more which frees up space for others.

Ahh, I knew there were some i'd missed.

off of lfc.tv

BENITEZ: I'M THE MAN FOR LIVERPOOL
Paul Eaton 19 February 2008 

On the day of Liverpool's biggest match of the season manager Rafael Benitez has launched a passionate defence of his Anfield record and insisted he is the man to lead the Reds to more glory. 
Saturday's Cup exit to Barnsley has led to much speculation over the manager's future but, despite admitting there have been setbacks this season, he is adamant progress will continue to be made under his leadership at the club.
 
"I have a lot of confidence that I will stay here for a long time, because my commitment is 100% with the club and I am sure that we can improve," said the Anfield manager.
 
"I think the club are 100% committed to me also. I don't have any suggestion the other way.
 
"I have two years left on my contract and I'm sure I will be here for a long time. I have confidence I will be here for a long time and we will win trophies.
 
"I am sure that I can win more titles for this club because I have a clear idea about what to do in the future.
 
"We will need to change things. Maybe I will change things but it is clear I have the confidence to do it.
 
"We have a lot of young players that are progressing. I know we need to improve in some areas, that is clear, and especially when you have bad comments you can see the character of everyone.
 
"And that is a good thing for the future, to see how everyone responds to the problems."
 
He added: "I understand why I am under pressure, but I'm surprised I am being asked the same question (on whether he needs to win the Champions League to save his job).
 
"How many managers have won the Champions League one time? Tell me. How many have got to the final twice in three years or won it twice? Think about the top managers in the Premier League and their record.
 
"When I arrived here it was 21 years without winning the Champions League and 15 years without winning the Premier League. Why? Now we know we are improving, seven finals in three years, but still we need to improve." 


yes you are sir benitez, yes you are!

Something those Rafa baggers dont get, the rebuilding stage to a new manager. Rafa is almost done in his rebuilding and we will see results soon, do we dare wait another 4 years for this to happen and maybe flop? Rafa has brought success and his CV would be that to envy for almost every person on Earth, why boot him out? Where did people suddenly get the idea he isnt good enough? The F***ing media! Yeah, the same one run by Scum papaers and the F***ing S*n. Who would want Fergie's record in the Prem? Im sure it would be everyone, but wait! Fergie isnt perfect now is he? Took a Premiership challenging side and turned them into a mid table team. Wouldnt this mean something little ones? Patience and stability! Sure Scum fans wanted his head off and you cant blame them when they are in 9th spot or thereabouts at the start of Fergie's career but the board persisted and looked long term and HURRAH! Scum are a Premiership force to be reckoned with.

Isnt this what its all about? Succes for us? Then why are we calling for Rafa's head when the proof is there...persistence and patience pay off! I say give him 4 more years and let him turn his youth system into what he wants, he fails ok then move on and look forward, if he succeeds then we have another era of Liverpool magic. Every club has its ups and downs and we cant let our pride get in the way of our success or lack of it some could say in recent years. Anyone hear of the term 'Rome wasnt built in a day?' well an era of brilliance isnt built in a day or a period of a few years.

Patience my young ones and you will reap the reward of a truly magnificent Liverpool side built by the one and only Rafael Benitez.

I agree with crouchino a little patience and Rafa will surely win the league for us. When he does I presume there will be lots of knives for sale when the ratbags have to pull them out of RAFAS back.

I hear Parry's is fetching over 1 million, this is solely because the bidder is considering using it to stab Rick himself.

His decisions frustrates me sometimes, but I'll still be sticking by the man.

There was once this talk about how many of our players will 'walk' into the first team of another top Europe team. Put the same litmus on Rafa, and u will have swarm of suitors. This shows the quality that the man possess.

That said, going back to the players, how many of our players can 'walk' into any other team? I would surely love some injections of world class players. And that, sad to say to a certain extent, seemed to be something which H&G controls more than Rafa.

Post mate. Good start to your lfcreds.com career.

His decisions frustrates me sometimes, but I'll still be sticking by the man.

There was once this talk about how many of our players will 'walk' into the first team of another top Europe team. Put the same litmus on Rafa, and u will have swarm of suitors. This shows the quality that the man possess.

That said, going back to the players, how many of our players can 'walk' into any other team? I would surely love some injections of world class players. And that, sad to say to a certain extent, seemed to be something which H&G controls more than Rafa.

Well said.

If we don't get the owners out as early as possible we're facing a season to season battle with the press, and these bas**rds.

They won't rest until Rafa's head is on the press conference table.  Just like Mourinho

For me the moment last night I realised how far Rafa has taken us on limited budgets, is when I saw the quality of the players on the Inter Milan bench close up in the first half... amazing depth of talent compared to our squad.

Which is why Rafa is building the house from youth up... as we can't compare spend apples for spend apples with the very top in Europe.

Would love to know what Inter's payroll is versus ours at the minute...

All i needed to see on their bench was Crespo and Figo. That says it all.

I've haven't been following the italian league. All I read was Figo wasn't fully fit. But Crespo? Is he out of form, out of favour? Or Inter had better players than him?

My guess tho is that Mancini would throw in Crespo further into the game if they had stayed 11men through.

Europe-wise, I guess we are still at it. We need to raise the buck in the league!! Frustrating frustrating frustrating.

That Inter bench was amazing, Figo, Crespo, Maniche, Burdisso and Veira. Compare that to Riise Alonso Arbeloa and Benayoun. Yet we still beat them, tells you something dont it?

I feel that we only need one or two more, world class signings, two match winners to go along side torres and gerrard, and we will be in the title race and possibly win it. I was two years old when the reds last won the league, would I have Rafa sacked and a new manager brought in and have to wait another couple years to see our team possibly were it is now? F**k no!
Leets give rafa another season and another 50 million quid, because last year was the first time in a while we spent figures similar to Man U and Chelsea have been over the last couple of years. These clubs are spending this kind of dough to stay on top, we need to  spend even more to get up there with them. the media might argue that  Rafa's had enough time, but I believe that last year was the first time he's had enough money.

In Rafa I Trust

 

I really feel that it is the case of players needing to bring their game up... even jus on par with their expected standards. The R-policy may or may not be the source of our problems. I have thought of it long and hard abt it.

The game against boro, where we fielded an almost unchanged line-up... but we just look so far away like the team that played inter. the 'problem' which plagued us all season seemed eerily present in this game, one which even the non-R policy implemented didn't solve.

So far we've got: -

41 votes for keep building.

2 votes for sack the Manager.

4 votes for unsure.

I'm not asking anyone to own up about their votes.  Except for the sacking

It was good to look back over Raffa's time as it shows the steady building he's been doing and lets not forget he's only been allowed to spend big on one player as all the other players we bought we had to compete with the rest of the EPL.

If Raffa had been given the money we all thought he would we maybe would have spent and bought more 20mill plus players and we wouldn't be having this debate which brings me into the handicap put on Raffa all season,I believe he must have spoke to the owners about the January window in the summer but I also believe they must have said then that come back in Jan and we shall talk but around October when these things have to be put into some sort of gear about buying players the Americans told him to train and work with the players only we shall talk of January when it gets here,what a position to put the coach in,Raffa knew then that we needed a centre half and perhaps 1 or 2 more players that he ended up missing out on but what they did next was to knock us off the rails  just when we were having a bad spell It was compounded by their lunacy of trying to replace Raffa with Klinsmann and from that point on the season has become one of Raffa showing great dignity considering what was done to him and most of us wouldn't have blamed him if he had walked there and then.what the Americans did was in the middle of the season and how Raffa kept things in perspective shows us if ever a man can lead us to the title HE CAN....

Like I mentioned somewhere else, this season is a case of a 'series of unfortunate events' starting from September. I mean, seriously, i have seen liverpool in the media due to  'off the field' issues much more than 'on the field' ones, so much more so this season than any other season in recent years.

And jus cos our current owners, with a combination of injuries and players not hitting their top gear, somehow within ONE season, were messing things up, the manager became a sheep for us to slaughter??

All these talks abt replacing Rafa shouldn't even exist in the first place!! I'm making my vote count here by believing that HE CAN bring us to where we want to.