General transfer discussion (Summer 2008)

To be fair I had my doubts about both Bellamy & Pennant when they arrived. The reason I feel Bellamy did well at Blackburn was because they're not in the same bracket as us & teams play with a higher line. Bellamy's game is all about playing on the shoulder of the last man & getting in behind the defence. Against us teams tend to defend a bit deeper, and Bellamy didn't get that space 9 times out of 10. I also felt Pennant was a good player against bad teams, but was too one dimensional to play against top defenders. At a club like Birmingham this was acceptable as they didn't realistically expect to take points of the top clubs anyway, but I thought at the time for us this would be a problem & for the most part it has. I have to admit though I was quite impressed with him at the start of this season before he got injured.

Bentley's game on the other hand isn't dependent on the level of opponent at all. He has shown he can handle playing against top teams, most notably demonstrated by his hatrick against Utd a while back, and has also given assured performances against the other top sides. He also has that spark to come up with something out of nothing that is required against smaller teams throwing ten men behind the ball. Some players are just better suited to playing at a smaller club, but I don't believe Bentley's one of them.

Obviously none of us have watched every game Bentley's played in as we're often playing ourselves at the same time, so I've posted a topic on a Blackburn forum. It will be interesting to hear the opinions of those that watch him week in week out rather than bitpart observers like ourselves.

What forum have you posted that on mate?

It will be interesting to hear the opinions of those that watch him week in week out rather than bitpart observers like ourselves.

My thoughts exactly. Let us know how the reaction goes Ed.

Personally from what I've seen of Bentley, I think he would be an improvement to our team. His crossing ability - especially when under pressure from a defender - looks to be improving every time I've seen him play. This is one of the things I feel we've lacked this season and last. The ability to get the ball in accurately and as early as possible. A big benefactor to any team member with the mentality to get up and support our attack.
Obviously he can't be called a world class player, but I do believe he has quality and is constantly improving. I'd rather have a world class team with quality players in it, rather than 11 world class individuals on the pitch. You only have to look at the mancs. They might have one or two world class players playing on a regular basis, but they are a team of quality players - as much as it bugs me to say.

bellamy wasnt even that good at blackburn he didnt get that many goals there before he joined us. He just had pace which we needed and to be fair he didnt do THAT badly with us i think rafa didnt like his attitude and wanted a better pacey player which we have now.

People seem to be forgetting where our money is coming from now and Signing, Quaresma, Villa, Silva and Rafinha in one go is more of a pipe dream than reality. We arent going to be given like 100 million.

For me bentley is class and leaving arsenal doesnt make you a bad player in all honesty. I take being english at arsenal as you already being down in the pecking order. The thing is its all good and well saying ahh hes a so and so reject but does anyone know the story of him leaving, i doubt alot of people do, you can assume all you want but unless you know how he left you cant really say. He chose to leave, arsenal didnt want rid of him but he insisted upon leaving in the same way as diarra did arsenal, he's an arsenal reject as they say but is he a bad player NO he isnt hes an excellent player. Bentley left at a young age because he wanted first team opportunities and thought he could become a better player by playing more elsewhere and he has. The same goes for walcott imo, he must feel terrible having left being the star at a smaller club to be the benchwarmer at arsenal and having his named dragged through the dirt people saying he's a waste of money when he hasnt had a chance to show what he can do properly.

If babel left us this summer because he wanted more first team games (just an example) would big clubs say nah hes a liverpool reject we cant buy him no they look past petty crap like that and think logically about it. Its all good and well to pick up on players bad points but you have to look at the good too.

We arent going to get like 5 world class players in one go so we shouldnt slate other players and think we are. If we bought quaresma for £25 million then he turned out to be bad in the prem would you be happy that we bought him i think not. I do want us to buy him but being proven in another league doesnt mean you are in the prem.

Unfortunately the members of the Blackburn forum appear to be tossers for the most part, I got one one alright response from one of the mods though:

I'm with the others in that i'd never easily sell him and i don't think he'll want to leave for a couple of seasons, but inevitibly there's always the chance he will leave in search of Champions League football in a few years, and to be honest you can't hold it against him if he's good enough to be playing at the top level.

I don't think he'll be moving any time soon though, and i don't think there's a clause suggesting we'd have to let him move.
As for swapping him for Pennant, I'd rather have Keith Gillespie back on the wing

Strengths
He is everything a right winger needs to be. He can take on and beat anyone he likes, he can get a great cross in afterwards on either foot, he can cut in and score you a goal from the edge of the box if he wants to, he's often found on the other wing playing just as well, and he's got a pretty mean free kick on him too.

Weaknesses
He's not as effective in the middle, or playing off the striker.

How much I'd sell him for
Well we got £17m for Duff, and he's just as good.

How would he fit in at Liverpool?
On the right wing, as a replacement for Pennant. As long as your manager is either sacked or stops all his rotation crap. Bentley would need to be playing every game. Although to be honest, his crosses might be wasted a bit because Torres prefers to use his feet and let's face it Crouch is pretty bad with his head.

bellamy wasnt even that good at blackburn he didnt get that many goals there before he joined us.

He got loads of goals for Blackburn the season before he joined us mate. Well more than any of our other strikers but Torres can score!

It's always a mistake signing a thug in the first place anyways...

However what would it take to sign Sergio Kun Aguero? This player will soon be better than Torres, trust me!
He's 19 years old and already got 13 league goals in La Liga. My mate said it'd be unfair if a team had Torres and Aguero up front on the same team, well they were last season but yet again Aguero was more or less bedded in and also Atletico got such a good midfield now that they have the service.

What would I pay for Aguero? The same that we payed for Torres.. well worth it in my opinion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://youtube.com/watch?v=M4gWg0k_N5o

He was one of the players I wanted us to sign before he left for Atletico, sure Rafa had the money for him aswell.. instead nicely spent on Craig Bellamy & Jermaine Pennant

This star far better than Pato

He got loads of goals for Blackburn the season before he joined us mate. Well more than any of our other strikers but Torres can score!

It's always a mistake signing a thug in the first place anyways...

It was only 13 all competitions which isnt impressive atall it was more the way he played upfront than his goal tally. Crouch got more than that and kuyt equalled that.

Yeah exactly but he was just there to get goals until we could get someone like Torres

I agree we should sign Aguero though but i think it would take ALOT to get athletico to part ways with him. Especially after us already having taken torres.

I agree we should sign Aguero though but I think it would take ALOT to get athletico to part ways with him. Especially after us already having taken torres.

They needed to get rid of Torres. Some teams need to get rid of their best players believe it or not. Some players I believe think or actually are too big for the club and should bugger off to teams like Real Madrid and fail miseribly!

Theirry Henry anyone?

They needed to get rid of Torres. Some teams need to get rid of their best players believe it or not. Some players I believe think or actually are too big for the club and should bugger off to teams like Real Madrid and fail miseribly!

Theirry Henry anyone?

Ahh i knowwwwwwww. Why do you have to say believe it or not asif i dont know. Torres opted to leave to better his career and get away from the pressure of all the expectation he had. If he hadnt siad he wanted to go he would still be there. Thierry is a different scenario as i dont know if he wanted to leave or AW wanted him to. Torres had all the respect a player possibly can for their club (athletico back then in torres case) but chose to leave and it benefited them as we can see.

But what I wanna ask, yes like me I ask some conteriversial sh*t, but what I gotta ask is, would Liverpool benifit if Steven Gerrard was to leave us? Would some of our players improve there game knowing that they have to depend on themselves more than they do on him?

I have wondered this a few times and in all honesty i must say its the most difficult question you could probably get to do with our players at the moment. I mean if you had not known henry was gonna leave arsenal i think everyones answer to that question but concerning arsenal would have been no they wouldnt cope without him.

Im not sure if we could or not i dont know. Its all fair saying when he has an off game or is injured how we perform but its different when he isnt there atall.

When he isn't there at all the player know that they have to cope without him so what they do is they try to rely on themselves more often. Knowing that Gerrard is there but not on the pitch they'll probably feel like they need him so mentally they won't be in the same state, but if he was at a different club I seriously do think that Liverpool could benifit from it.

I don't know why, but he's not the type of player that Rafa Benitez would have in a team. Look at Valencia, they had Aimar who was attacking like Gerrard but just completely different style. I don't think Gerrard has the intelligence of some other players such as Aimar and Riquleme, I just think it's raw talent that Gerrard has that makes him the player he is today!

I see what you mean but Gerrard offers more overall than those players thats what people love about him, thats what sets him apart from the rest. He actually runs back and makes tackles whereas other tend to do it only if they feel they absolutely have to. He is more a box to box midfielder whereas those are seen as attacking midfielders.

I think if stevie felt the team would benefit from him leaving he would actually take it upon himself and leave because of how much he loves liverpool. Its not like he could go somewhere else and get paid more so its not about money or anything like that, i think he genuinly thinks we can win the prem if we get the right players in so we can get that consistency we need.

I see what you mean but Gerrard offers more overall than those players thats what people love about him, thats what sets him apart from the rest. He actually runs back and makes tackles whereas other tend to do it only if they feel they absolutely have to. He is more a box to box midfielder whereas those are seen as attacking midfielders.

Then where is our attacking midfielder? We need an attacking midfielder! Lucas, Alonso & Mascherano are all holding midfielders, Gerrard is box to box midfielders who's a good all round midfielder but doesn't specialise in one position, Benayoun I don't really rate. So where is our attacking midfielder? I think this has been our downfall in the years that's gone by, because all top teams with success have a proper out and out attacking midfielder like Barcelona with Deco, Man Utd with Scholes (painfull to say it) AC with Kaka, Arsenal with Fabregas.

Yes someone like Diego would be a good choice, as that's a role he'd specialise in!

I think if stevie felt the team would benefit from him leaving he would actually take it upon himself and leave because of how much he loves liverpool. Its not like he could go somewhere else and get paid more so its not about money or anything like that, I think he genuinly thinks we can win the prem if we get the right players in so we can get that consistency we need.

Definitely, because he does add something else to our game. But the kind of players we'll need to add to our teams are those who are confident in themselves like David Villa, Ricardo Quaresma. These two players trust themselves more than anything, so they wouldn't rely on Gerrard just because they think he could do it better.

Yeah we do need more world class players thats for certain.

On the AM front, thats the point of the 4-2-3-1 stevie no longer has to defend. And now we are seeing the best of him, playing just off torres given a license to roam and attack all he wants. But i would love us to sign diego he's a phenominal talent i've been watching him for a while, whenever i used to mention him (not on here) people used to tell me he's ok but nothing special haha.

I want silva more than quaresma for some reason. I think its due to us needing a LM more than a RM and his age and the problems that people bring up with quaresmas attitude. I do think rafa could sort that out but still its something to think about. Silva has always impressed me and seems to have a good attitude to his football.

There are players that bring others into the game. I don't know why but when I watch Liverpool it doesn't seem like Gerrard is this kind of player that brings others into the game. Yes he is a team player, he's not greedy but he's not someone who'll bring others into the game like Aimar, Riquleme or Diego would. We need someone who can do that.

Same with David Silva, he probably brings players into the game better than Quaresma does. Ricardo Quaresma probably has the better technique and ability but David Silva is an effective link up player with also some serious talent! I do think David Silva is quite a soft player, I've seen him in many games go totally missing whereas however bad Quaresma or Porto are playing, he'll always try his hardest and will demand the ball and keep on trying.

He had a bad game at Anfield but he tried to get involved and never gave up. He's a tough player who doesn't lose his confidence if things are not going his way, I like him!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=whWkIAT1dSU

But what I wanna ask, yes like me I ask some conteriversial sh*t, but what I gotta ask is, would Liverpool benifit if Steven Gerrard was to leave us? Would some of our players improve there game knowing that they have to depend on themselves more than they do on him?

I don't see how Liverpool Football Club could benefit if they lost the Captain and most influential player!  If there are players at the club that need to improve their game then they need to have a look at themselves rather than claim they are subdued by a world class player, but I don't think there are players subdued by Gerrard.  There have been times in the past when Stevie has single handedly dragged us back from the brink, and I don't think I need to list those games, but I do agree that back then we were over reliant on Gerrard as a creative influence, but we have since added Mascherano, Babel, and Torres, and of course, the latter is striking up an excellent understanding with the skipper...

P.S.  It's 'Controversial' son, sorry to note you on this... but you did me on the paragraphs

Which players do we think will be leaving in the summer?id say Crouch,Kewell,Pennant maybe Risse and Alonso.

Apparently we've already signed one starting 11 player and two youth players.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N159354080330-0955.htm

RAFA SETS SIGHTS ON NEW DEALS
Paul Eaton 30 March 2008 
  Rafael Benitez has revealed plans are already being made for next season - with three new players within his sights. 
Despite facing into the most testing period of the season so far with today's derby with Everton being followed by a triple header with Arsenal, the Liverpool boss has admitted there is already work going on behind the scenes ahead of the new campaign in August.
 
"We have agreements with two young players and one senior player who will be a starting XI player. That deal is already done," he said.
 
"We are also making plans for our pre-season tour and talking to players here about new contracts."
 
Sami Hyypia has already been offered a new deal by the Reds, with Benitez hopeful the big Finn will agree to extend his Anfield stay into a tenth year.

Nice to see Rafa steaming ahead with the new signings already with some future stars, I wonder who the starting X1 player is though? It's probably someone we would not have heard of who is out of contract at the moment in which case you must question why? 

Anyway if Rafa thinks he got a good deal I'm happy.

Aguero would be sick.
He's pretty much the perfect foil to Torres, and I'd love to see us revert back to 4-4-2 if we got Aguero.
He has sick ball control and great stability because of his low center of gravity...plus the fact he's an excellent header of the ball (highly surprising considering his height)...and I think him and Torres would work wonders together.
It's a surprise they didn't work too well last year at Atletico...on paper they seem to be a perfect match.

It would cost 25 million pounds IMO to buy him...but if they really want alonso...we can offer alonso+cash...

In my opinion what we lack are top class wingers, although babel looks like he will develop into a good player and Benayoun has been very useful the likes of Pennant, Kewell and Riise simply aren't the quality required to mount a serious title challenge especially when you compare them to players like Malouda, Ronaldo, Nani, Joe Cole etc.

Ideally i would like to see exciting wingers like Quaresma, Mancini or Joaquim but i think it would be more Benitez's style to go for a less famous but more effective style player like Bentley or Lennon.