Top 4 will be stronger next season.

Some interesting debate on this thread, but everyone agrees that when fully fit we have a strong XI, we just need more depth if we are to compete for the league.

To address the topic title, will the top four be stronger next season? I'm not so sure.

It depends compared to what. In the last ten years, United and Chelsea have had stronger sides than their current ones IMO, and general opinion seems to be that they are potentially on the decline.

I would suggest that with them weakening, whilst teams like Arsenal and ourselves, as well as Spurs and City, are improving, there is simply more competition for the top spots. The level of the best teams in England is perhaps slightly weaker, although still very high, and the league is more open.

The investment of each team in the summer is going to be crucial.

Man Utd and Chelsea have ageing players who need replacing. Arsenal's squad seems generally very strong. Ourselves, Spurs and City need to find those few missing players if the title is to be a realistic prospect.

The summer transfer market is going to make very interesting viewing. I am certain our owners are going to back the club, and it's down to us to target the right players and bring them in. No more stop-gaps, no more mediocrity.

It depends compared to what. In the last ten years, United and Chelsea have had stronger sides than their current ones IMO, and general opinion seems to be that they are potentially on the decline.

I've said before that although I pretty much expect ManUre to win the league this year, they will be one of the worst teams to do so. I think they've been pretty poor this and 'got away' with a lot of results and been lucky with other contenders screwing up, Chelski being the most obvious after starting so well. It's hard to believe how long ManUre went unbeaten because they've looked anything but solid at the back. It would be naive to discount them as a threat next year but Slur Alice needs to make some key signings, if allowed.
Chelski are always going to be a threat because they can afford to reinforce the squad, whether they will is a different matter. Most of the key players are left overs from Mourine's time and as people keep saying, they're getting on a bit now. Even if they continue to spend, they need to do it wisely and it remains to be seen whether Ancellotti is the man to do it. If they miss out on the CL this year it could cause massive damage to them.
Arsenal could be very dangerous next season. The squad is starting to settle and with the stadium now paid off, there is no reason why they can't start spending a bit. Wenger is good at finding bargains but I'm sure he'd like to go in for the likes of Hazard if given the funds.
Citeh and Spuds, I have no idea. Citeh will no doubt spend spend spend whenever they feel they can add another good player to the squad but morale, player temperament and discipline still seem to be issues within their squad and I'm not convinced they can do much about it. Spuds have some good players but, in my opinion, rely heavily on team spirit and arry's motivation. I have no doubt we can challenge them on that score already.
In summary, I'm very optimistic about next season and see no reason why we can't be right up there fighting for the title.

One of your many sticks to beat Kelly with is he wouldn't get into the sides above. When proven players from sides above wouldn't get ahead of their counterpart in our side, it's suddenly a daft argument.

As far are we behind the top five? Well we've outplayed every one of the top five this year with the exception of City. Under a whole year of Kenny's management we'd make the top four with ease. The last two years, or rather the months between August 09 to January 2011, have been proof that a defensive set up doesn't suit us. Kenny has got us playing attractive attacking football, which suits us and why we'd stroll the top four with Kenny in charge for a whole year.

You're missing the point DLS. Kelly wouldn't get into there sides based on his ability IMO. Whereas players such as Cech and whoever else you mentioned wouldn't get into our side not because of there ability or that they aren't good enogh but simply because we don't need that position filling.

The praise Kelly gets really does make me laugh. Im front of the queue to say he's played very well the last few weeks and he's stuck too his job well. The lad isn't world class though, hes not to that standard and I can just tell by the way he plays football he never will be. He's not got it in his locker. I've mentioned it several times now but he looks identicle to when Carragher plays full back. Does a steady job every single week but lacking quality. That's my opinion, it won't change, so its pointless challenging me on every thread about MK. I'd like, very much with Carra, to see what he's like in the middle because I think he would be far more suited and might just well become a gem. At full back though, not for me, not in a million years.

He's done the simple things right, been pretty solid, stuck to his job like i mentioned above, and already people are tipping him to become vice and captain for the club. To go on and play for England. Based on 10 appearences or so. Going over the top or what? Makes me laugh.

Secondly, you are clearly living in the 80's. The results and performances have definately improved under Kenny and im looking forward to the summer and next season more than anyone, but come off it, what aload of sh*te that is ^

We outplayed chelsea twice yes, the mancs outplayed us at there place apart from a 15minute spell in the second half, we also got outplayed in the cup but showed a lot of spirit on the day, City battered us start to finish, Spurs away it was a very even game and we were unlucky not to get a point.

But, so what? What's your point? OH, so does that mean we are as good as them? Hang on, I'll just check the league table again because we all no the league table doesn't lie.

Do i have to sit here and go through game by game and discuss the sh*te that have outplayed us for 90mins this season? Blackpool twice for example? So again, what a stupid argument.

In this league, Liverpool can beat anybody, but we can also be beaten by anybody which is the problem. Yes, the teams above us can also drop points too anyone too which i no would be your response, but it's a massive shock when they do -thats the difference. When Wolves beat UTD at home everyone was stunned. When wolves beat us on our own turf it wasn't a shock.

Finally, half of Kennys games in charge we've played very well and deserved everything we got. However, the other half we've played just as sh*te as we did under Roy in all honesty and only just about scraped points. So right now, unless we have investment like i've been banging on about, I can't see us finishing above any of the top 5 next season. We definately need 4-5 players.

lfc_ynwa - mate id reply to you but you've come out with some sh*te so its pointless really. You kicked off when i said hutton isnt first choice for spurs, which he isn't, if they got to the european cup final and providing everyone was fit, would he start? No he wouldn't.

You said Bale isn't world class.

You told me to go and support city because I said our 6th placed squad needs investment if we want to challenge for the league. I mentioned 100m because I think that's how much it would cost to bring in 4-5 quality proven premiership players which again IMO is exactly what we need.

So if you're coming out with sh*t like that ^, I cba talking to you mate.

 I never said Bale wasn't world class, because he is, I just said he's only been good this season and people consider him go to be the best winger in the pl. Even though he's only got 1 pl assist. Your the 1 talking sh*t about us needing to spend 100 million (net), it's not going to happen.

Watch tottenham, Hutton is first choice.
We'd probably be in the top 4 is Kenny took over from the start.

You can tell half term is here with some of the posters that have logged on.

Think it's time people remembered what this topic is about.

Sick of reading arguments about Kelly and other players.  If you want to discuss players then do so in the appropriate player threads please guys.

Sorry for treading on mods toes 

Your thoughts please on our chances of top 4 as I think it will be even harder next season.

Mancs - They will undoubtably strenghen next season and will be just as strong as usual.
Arsenal - They are going to have to bite the bullet and spend as thier defence looks shakey.
Man City - Plenty of ins and outs as usual. They,ll be happy with CL this season but will want to dominate next season.
Spurs - The big one for them is if they can keep hold of Bale and Modric.
Chelsea - They are going to have to spend big next season as they will have to build a team around thier 50 million star man. I expect to see Rafa in charge next season.

The rest will also strengthen and for us we,ll have to spend some big money also. Exciting times ahead I think.

The whole point of a forum Carroll9 is that you listen to other people's points of view. If your not open to those points of view it isnt a debate.

No need to be insulting, people will disagree with your points from time to time but thats football. I'm pretty sure Dalglish would disagree with Fergie's opinions on quite a lot of things and they're quite a bit more qualified to comment on these things. So it just shows people will always disagree.

In my opinion you're judging the squad off Hodgson's tactics. If we were to win every game for the rest of the season would you think the squad still needed improving so vastly?

I never said Bale wasn't world class, because he is, I just said he's only been good this season and people consider him go to be the best winger in the pl. Even though he's only got 1 pl assist. Your the 1 talking sh*t about us needing to spend 100 million (net), it's not going to happen.

Watch tottenham, Hutton is first choice.
We'd probably be in the top 4 is Kenny took over from the start.

You can tell half term is here with some of the posters that have logged on.

He's really only got 1 assist? Thats surprised me.

Agree about the Kenny bit.

The whole point of a forum Carroll9 is that you listen to other people's points of view. If your not open to those points of view it isnt a debate.

No need to be insulting, people will disagree with your points from time to time but thats football. I'm pretty sure Dalglish would disagree with Fergie's opinions on quite a lot of things and they're quite a bit more qualified to comment on these things. So it just shows people will always disagree.

In my opinion you're judging the squad off Hodgson's tactics. If we were to win every game for the rest of the season would you think the squad still needed improving so vastly?

I know, but when somebodys saying go and support city because i think we are 4-5 players short of challenging again, what's the point in giving them the time of day.

Yes I would. I've stated previously that i think we have a strong 11. We don't have a strong squad though, in fact we have a sh*te one.

Fair enough init.

Its just the way you put things across sometimes mate, you've got your own points just as everyone else has, doesn't mean your wrong or right.

Just cba talking to people who say things like support city and then mention half term as if im a child where its comments like the above which actually seem childish to me.

I don't think i've said anything out of place really. I don't rate Kelly as this wonder kid which pretty much 90% of the forum seem to think he is. I think we have a small squad and our second string players are sh*te so i'd like to see kenny given some money to bring in at a minimum 4 players. Idealy 4 proven premiership players so there bound to cost a few quid. I think as things stand the top 5 are ahead by some distance and this season and last season prove that despite whoose been in charge, including kenny. Certain players have left in recent seasons and haven't been replaced with the same quality, our rivals have strengthened in the mean time meaning we've fell behind.

Im only 23, so Ive not grew up watching LFC as champions year after year, I've grew up watching them battle for fourth every season instead. I'm a red with my feet on the ground who is always realistic which some on here try and twist that into me being negative but Im not. I've just never been one of those typical reds who state 'We will win the league next season'. Heard it for twenty years now, it's time to drop it and accept where we are.

Fact is we need some quality in that squad and we need more numbers to cope throughout the season.  The reserves and youth just isn't good enough and hasn't been for a long time.

I know, but when somebodys saying go and support city because I think we are 4-5 players short of challenging again, what's the point in giving them the time of day.

Yes I would. I've stated previously that I think we have a strong 11. We don't have a strong squad though, in fact we have a sh*te one.

Your saying we need 4-5 world class players even though our first 11 is good? Sure we need a few squad players but we don't need to spend 100 million on it. I'm saying if you want to see us spend 100 million (net) then you ain't going to see here.

Your saying we need 4-5 world class players even though our first 11 is good? Sure we need a few squad players but we don't need to spend 100 million on it. I'm saying if you want to see us spend 100 million (net) then you ain't going to see here.

Then we won't see the league title here in 2012.

If you think the current squad can compete for a whole season against city and chelseas squads, the brilliance of arsenal and a team manager by fergie then you are deluded pal.

We need two wingers and a left back. We could do with another forward or a midfielder.

Kuyt and Lucas would then play a squad type role and sh*te like Ngog and Maxi can be sold on or loaned out

The reserves and youth just isn't good enough and hasn't been for a long time.

We have fantastic youngsters coming through, try watching them. Are you the type of person that doesn't believe in turning youngsters into world class players. Or are you the type that believes you should buy world class players for every position? Like Madrid, City and Chelsea have done?

Im the type whoose wondered when was the last time a youngster came through and made the position his. Kelly maybe? And i don't rate the lad.

Then we won't see the league title here in 2012.

If you think the current squad can compete for a whole season against city and chelseas squads, the brilliance of arsenal and a team manager by fergie then you are deluded pal.

We need two wingers and a left back. We could do with another forward or a midfielder.

Kuyt and Lucas would then play a squad type role and sh*te like Ngog and Maxi can be sold on or loaned out

Did I say we could compete with them? It's obvious we need to invest but we don't need to spend like City. Arsenal's first team probably cost less then ours.

We don't need a striker, just make Kuyt back up striker. Get couple wingers and a left back. Get Aqua then we have a squad that can make top 4.

Your also watching reserves playing against reserves, or kids playing against kids. Remember that.

We don't have the scouting set up arsenal do though, they can spot a gem for a great price, we can't.

They're also trained to play football the way the first team do as soon as they sign. There kids play exactly the same way. They are trained and built into great players, team players, whereas our kids and kids at other clubs come up and look clueless half the time or star struck.

Im the type whoose wondered when was the last time a youngster came through and made the position his. Kelly maybe? And I don't rate the lad.

The youngsters in past years have been poor. This is the first time in years we have got brilliantly group of youngsters coming through. The likes of Flannagan, Robinson, Coady, Silva, Barton, Suso, Sterling, Ngoo and the likes of Wilson and Shelvey all have the potential to become good players.

We don't have the scouting set up arsenal do though, they can spot a gem for a great price, we can't.

They're also trained to play football the way the first team do as soon as they sign. There kids play exactly the same way. They are trained and built into great players, team players, whereas our kids and kids at other clubs come up and look clueless half the time or star struck.

Oh dear, you really don't know anything about our Youth setup then.

Our youngsters are being coached by the best and are being coached to play how Kenny wants the 1st team to play.

When it's time for them to step up they will be ready and won't look our of place.

You need to forget that we haven't produced any real talent for the last 10 years and look to the next 10 years cos we will have a production line of future stars coming into the 1st team.

Also Arsenal have had 15 years of the Academy in it's present format, we've had nearly 2.

NAME___________HOME_PTS_ ___AWAY_PTS____LAST_6_MA TCHES_PTS
Arsenal____________16___ _______11__________14
Liverpool___________11__ ________6___________14
Manchester United___18__________9__ _________13
Tottenham Hotspur___14_________11_ __________11
Chelsea____________8____ _______8___________10
Manchester City_____15__________8__ _________8


The current form table.
Would indicate with three quality signings we can challenge for the title with Kenny in charge      

We don't have the scouting set up arsenal do though, they can spot a gem for a great price, we can't.

They're also trained to play football the way the first team do as soon as they sign. There kids play exactly the same way. They are trained and built into great players, team players, whereas our kids and kids at other clubs come up and look clueless half the time or star struck.

We could be looking at the best youngsters to come out of the academy since Gerrard and Owen.
You'd want to do your homework on the subject before uttering such nonsense.
That bit in bold... That's exactly what our youth system does with Rodolfo Borrell and John McMahon.

We don't have the scouting set up arsenal do though, they can spot a gem for a great price, we can't.

They're also trained to play football the way the first team do as soon as they sign. There kids play exactly the same way. They are trained and built into great players, team players, whereas our kids and kids at other clubs come up and look clueless half the time or star struck.

Have ya had a watch of the youth teams in the past year and a half?

They play F***ing great football.

Interesting debate. Looking back through the thread the people saying that Rafa would not go to the Chavs is interesting. My take on it is that Chelsea do now have an ageing squad. They have spent massively on FT and DL in january and both are young and tallented no doubt but for them to work the chavs will now have to build a team around how FT likes to play which at the moment with chelseas formation FT has upset the apple cart. That in itself will be one tough task. Who brought FT to LFC ?, Who got the best out of FT ?, Who plays a formation suited to how FT plays ? Whos got Champions League experience and has already won it ? As far as i,m concerned all this adds up to Rafa. Anchalotti is not going to win the CL with Chelsea this year IMO which is the holy grail for Abramovich and his position is already intence pressure. Therefore i think Rafa will be Chelseas manager next season and he will get what hes allways craved, a big transfer budget.

Also people saying on here that Kelly is not a class act. Maybe thats true but the guy is only 20, hes playing out of position and hes in there because the only good option we have for left back is Johnson at the moment. For me,next season Kelly must be played in his more natural position at CB instead of Skrtle and Carra and maybe then we can judge him.

Next season will become harder for the top 4 as they will all need to strengthen IMO. For us to get in there will be difficult. We also need to strengthen. Left back is priority and maybe even 2. One as an good,solid left full back and one pacey wing back, depending how Kenny wants to play. If thats the case we may need a right full back also if Kelly plays at CB as Johnson is not the best defencively. We could do with a CDM as competion for Lucas. I think Cole could challenge Gerrard, Meireles and Shelvey for CM as hes not a winger IMO. 2 wingers could also be on the cards and if we do get Conner Wickham then i think that could spell the end for N,gog.