Johnson or Kelly

Don't think Glen Johnson did badly today. Two goals came from the left side and the other came from the right but that was a corner.

It took till the 70 minute for crouch to find a fault in him, that says all you need to know about his performance. Giggs attempted to run pass him and passed the ball, enough for Crouch to say he was useless.

This is the same knee jerk reaction

Not really.  It was discussed constantly last season (albeit temporarily halted because of Kelly's injury).

The last couple of games have shown me exactly why Kuyt gets picked so often.  Because he provides so much cover for our right back.

Little doubt in my mind that the best right back is Kelly.  Whether Johnson is picked because he provides better attacking options is a possibility.

I'd have Kelly there.  Johnson maybe on the right wing.

I'll stand by it. Whoever gets found out with pace by a bloke who is old enough to be my great grandad then you know he's struggled.

Crossing was pretty poor, too.

He didn't get found out Crouch just your chip on the soldier about him, usually someone goes around him around the twenty minute and you get to make your comment but you had to wait till the 70th minute today and Giggs still didn't go around he ran side by side with him and stood on the ball.

 Johnson was was probably our best defender today and yet again he is getting picked on, have yet to see a comment about Konchesky today he was a lot worse than Johnson. Carragher and Skrtel were shocking.

I'd love to know out of them people that picked Kelly how many times they have actually seen him play this is like Insua over again.

 There is no way in the world at the moment Kelly is a better right back than Johnson maybe in a couple of years but not now. Johnson was actually capped by Kellys age, Kelly still has a hell of a lot to prove.

Johnson was was probably our best defender today and yet again he is getting picked on, have yet to see a comment about Konchesky today he was a lot worse than Johnson. Carragher and Skrtel were shocking.

Our whole back line were shocking. They all were terrible at marking their man and getting the ball to safety.

This topic however is about Johnson and Kelly, and right now with their performances considered i would suggest Kelly gets a bit more of a go than he currently does because Glen isn't close to being convincing enough on a consistent basis.

Sure you said only a couple of posts ago you wouldn't start Kelly every game but give him a chance every games. F**k sake what has Johnson done in the last 3 hours to change your mind.

I'd say if somone shot Johnson you'd want him done for standing in the way of the bullet. Will you answer me one thing Crouch how many times have you actually seen Kelly play.

 Remember Johnson was a full international at Kellys age Kelly has yet to get a starting place in the U21 side.

Our whole back line were shocking. They all were terrible at marking their man and getting the ball to safety.

This topic however is about Johnson and Kelly, and right now with their performances considered I would suggest Kelly gets a bit more of a go than he currently does because Glen isn't close to being convincing enough on a consistent basis.

Your hatred for Johnson is annoyingly obvious...  Its getting boring now.. You'd only have to siv (not that i have) through a few of your recent posts to see what I'm saying.. If your not exaggerating his apparent defensive inefficiencies your talking up his inexperienced replacement.. Get a grip lad.. *Sighs*

How many times and against who have you seen him play against to say he is a better right back then Johnson Crouch. I'm intrigued because I've only seen Kelly play against mickey mouse european opposition, well except for the Lyon match.

 How can people say he is better than Johnson without seeing him in matches. Maybe you followed him when he was on loan with Huddersfield. That is why it is a knee jerk thread.

 Why we not seeing is Mavinga or Robinson better than Konchesky thread as well. Kelly maybe has the potential to be better than Johnson but he has a hell of a lot to prove before then.

Kelly said at the start of the season he couldn't learn from a better right back as Johnson was the best right back in the Premiership.

Sure you said only a couple of posts ago you wouldn't start Kelly every game but give him a chance every games. F**k sake what has Johnson done in the last 3 hours to change your mind.

What are you talking about? I said i'd give him more of a go in my first post, and said the same thing in my second post...? Unless you misread what i meant.

Kelly deserves more of a go, once every couple games he should start. I haven't said anything different since

Your hatred for Johnson is annoyingly obvious...  Its getting boring now.. You'd only have to siv (not that i have) through a few of your recent posts to see what I'm saying.. If your not exaggerating his apparent defensive inefficiencies your talking up his inexperienced replacement.. Get a grip lad.. *Sighs*

I talk up Pacheco and call for him to play much more, doesn't mean i think he's better than Gerrard, or Cole, or Ngog even. I want to see him play more, how else do you turn from inexperienced to experienced?

I don't hate him. I think he's brilliant in attack, but he cannot defend. Don't put words in my mouth, because i talk his attack up constantly and give credit when he deserves it. Shock horror, i stated our best set piece move was when Glen received a short corner from Maxi and cut on his left to shoot.

What's boring is you hunting down what i say and claim i shouldn't be shooting down anyone, just like Babel. Well mate, none of these two have justified their inflated prices for the job they were brought here to do.

*Sighs*

Your hatred for Johnson is annoyingly obvious...  Its getting boring now.. You'd only have to siv (not that I have) through a few of your recent posts to see what I'm saying.. If your not exaggerating his apparent defensive inefficiencies your talking up his inexperienced replacement.. Get a grip lad.. *Sighs*

Don't be daft, there's no hatred for Johnson.

Reading crouchies post i don't think he is saying for Kelly to replace him as such, more so for him to have more of a go and create competition for the spot. Because at the moment Johnson is playing like someone who feels invincible in his position.

Don't be daft, there's no hatred for Johnson.

Reading crouchies post i don't think he is saying for Kelly to replace him as such, more so for him to have more of a go and create competition for the spot. Because at the moment Johnson is playing like someone who feels invincible in his position.

Exactly what i meant. Some people like kicking up a fuss for the sake of it. Again... *Sigh*

Not really.  It was discussed constantly last season (albeit temporarily halted because of Kelly's injury).

The last couple of games have shown me exactly why Kuyt gets picked so often.  Because he provides so much cover for our right back.

Little doubt in my mind that the best right back is Kelly.  Whether Johnson is picked because he provides better attacking options is a possibility.

I'd have Kelly there.  Johnson maybe on the right wing.

He's played 9 competitive games in an LFC shirt and to his credit hasn't faulted in any.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say he's looked very impressive in pretty much every single one of them.  Does he deserve more game time?  Absolutely. Should it come at the expense of Johnson?  Probably not.  The lad is more suited to being a CB anyhow.

Putting Johnson on the wing wouldn't be too much of an issue if we played asymmetrically because he wouldn't be able to play in the attacking right midfield/Kuyt position so high up the pitch because his danger comes from the time and space he is given on the ball.

You're probably right about being picked for the better attacking options though.  However, it's all about trade offs.  We are sacrificing some defensive stability in our half on the right hand side to provide mountains of extra width down that same touchline which I don't think Kelly is quite ready to provide yet.  The 2 DMs we play sacrifice getting forward from a deeper position to provide extra defensive stability on the counter through the centre of the park.  Essentially we are stronger defensively in the centre of the park but weaker on the flanks.

I know we conceded most of our goals last year down the flanks but I don't think that our defense as a whole was a liability last year, relative to our attack anyhow.  No matter what team you are, there will be one area of the pitch where you concede the most goals.  I don't think that putting Kelly at RB will solve our defensive problems and will further amplify the problems with creativity particularly from the wider areas.

Another option is to play him at LB and retract our current attacking midfielders into deeper roles as wider midfielders or wingers and use different personnel it would isolate some players out of the current system though.  I just want to see a plan and that plan taking shape which involves shipping out players that aren't right for it.

There is a lot of hatred for Johnson on this site to be honest, Giggs did F**k all today and was kept quiet by Johnson yet we were seeing quotes like he is useless etc, nothing about Konchesky who was poor. Giggs tried to outrun Johnson once and failed and you call him useless Crouch it was a ridiculous comment.

Answer me what I asked Crouch how many times and against who have you seen Kelly play. I understand what you are saying as well YNWA but I'd like to ask the same question to whoever voted for Kelly.

I didn't vote, because right now i wouldn't pick one over the other.

I've seen Kelly play probably 10/15 times for the Ressies, his England bout and for us in competitive games + friendlies.

So in very little top class competitive football and against no top class opponents and are you saying you'd pick Kelly, Kelly has showed he maybe a good player in the future but that is all.

The fans that voted for him will turn on him as quick as they turned on Insua if after 5 games he isn't the wonder defender they thought. They is a ridicolous thread and I've seen it for no other player on here.

I bet if Kelly played maybe 20 times in a row this vote would be completely different. What about a thread about Lucas or Poulsen or what about Agger or Skrtel this is a complete knee jerk thread.

Problem with Insua was he was thrown into the lion's den very quickly in a poor side. If we can keep both fit, give Kelly the time and rest him on and off then he will gain experience without as much negativity.

Key to getting the best out of him is to give him responsibility in patches. Enough for him to feel the pressures of first team football, but not enough to crumble his confidence.

Don't be daft, there's no hatred for Johnson.

Reading crouchies post I don't think he is saying for Kelly to replace him as such, more so for him to have more of a go and create competition for the spot.

I've not just misread one or two posts lad, and I'm not conducting a witch hunt on his posts either, Its just jarring to read the sneaky comments over and over.. He made it clear when we signed Johno that he thought he was overpriced and since then he hasn't passed up an opportunity to make him the first point of criticism in most games..

In my opinion this basic way of thinking with regards to Johnson being great in attack and sh*te in defence is silly..
Defensively at his worst he's still currently a better option than Kelly.. Hence the reason why Kelly's considered a prospect and Johnsons the England right back..
Like i said before, I also love the idea of our youth coming through but I damn sure ain't going to exaggerate their quality..

Johnson is playing like someone who feels invincible in his position.

Why.. I don't remember him doing Taps/keep ups at the edge of our box?
It would be intresting to know how you came to that conclusion.

Excellant post chico, you've nailed it Kelly is a prospect that is all he has proven nothing and the support for him over Johnson is baffling to be honest considering he has played so little first team football.

Whatever you say Crouch this is identical to the Insua situation. I've said it before no matter how good Johnson is playing you make at least one negative comment every game about him. Every game it is getting ridiculous.

Kelly was solid enough against Steua but if Johnson had produced the exact same performance there wouldn't have been one person saying he did well and he would have received a lot of criticism.

I've not just misread one or two posts lad, and I'm not conducting a witch hunt on his posts either, Its just jarring to read the sneaky comments over and over.. He made it clear when we signed Johno that he thought he was overpriced and since then he hasn't passed up an opportunity to make him the first point of criticism in most games..

In my opinion this basic way of thinking with regards to Johnson being great in attack and sh*te in defence is silly..
Defensively at his worst he's still currently a better option than Kelly.. Hence the reason why Kelly's considered a prospect and Johnsons the England right back..
Like I said before, I also love the idea of our youth coming through but I damn sure ain't going to exaggerate their quality..

Why.. I don't remember him doing Taps/keep ups at the edge of our box?
It would be intresting to know how you came to that conclusion.

I have seen crouch make positive comments about Johnson and then the negative ones too. IMO, this is a witchhunt simply because you feel he is unfairly treating Johnson.

You have misread posts. I aint going into it any deeper cos frankly I feel the likes of you and corbally don't give a sh*t about any ones opinion on this unless it agrees with your own.

Excellant post chico, you've nailed it Kelly is a prospect that is all he has proven nothing and the support for him over Johnson is baffling to be honest considering he has played so little first team football.

So the support for him is baffling? What does that make of the support for Pacheco then, who has had no more first-team football than Kelly?

I think that Kelly, as has been mentioned here before has great potential.. however for me it has to be Johnson. At least as good as Kelly defensively, but with greater attacking qualities which are essential in the modern day full back and experience.

Johnson has suffered as he came in at a bad time, squad confidence low, major player injuries, boardroom power struggles... we all know the story.

I believe that if we can improve in general, we'll see much better performances from him as he becomes more confident.

With all of the games we'll hopefully play this season Kelly will get his fair share of games, but I don't think he has done enough to warrant a start over Johnson yet.

I think Kelly WILL be a better player than Johnson.  He already seems to have more positional awareness & game intelligence than Johnson does.  Johnson does make up for this with experience & he has more pace, but he should be looking behind his back, because Kelly is putting in the better performances at present.  Don't think it'll matter in the end though, still think Kelly's long term future is at centre back.

When Johnson was a youngster he used to play upfront (at my local club) so he's definitely got the attacking talent.