The great big Rafa debate

If I answer that does that makes me a dumb sh*t?

Why dont you just answer it  - stop pratting around.

We ALL want to know.

If I answer that does that makes me a dumb sh*t?

No if you answer it, it doesn't make you a dumb sh*t but not answering just re-inforces everyones opinion of you being a dumb sh*t

At his 6th year he's needing to rebuild as well.

Who says he needs to "Rebuild" ?, we need strength in depth maybe 5 or 6 players  and a little better luck with injuries next time around.

Now please take car to read the remainder of this post, let it sink in to your brain and make a sound reasoned response

Now just imagine for a moment over the last two seasons we had a 30 million per season transfer budget thats a 20 million summer budget and a 10 million winter budget over two seasons that is 60 million.

60 million would have brought in 6x10 million players into the squad, think

60 million would have brought  us 4x15 million players into the squad think Turan, Mata, Sneijder, possibly even Silva two years ago or players of their stature valuation.

60 million would have brought in 3 x 20 million players into the squad.

What ever way you look at it our squad was ravaged with injuries all season long and has been underfunded in terms of strengthening over the past two seasons, had investment been forthcoming any of those scenarios above would certainly have helped us through it, maybe even kept us in the Champions League and in the title hunt.

Rafael Benitez has not shafted you, the greedy b***ard yanks who are paying off the debt they placed upon the club with the revenue that club generates itself  rather than investing it on strengthening the squad are the people who are shafting you, they are shafting you so hard, they are basically spit roasting you.

Good call Nik, knew I'd forgotten one!!

Maybe you shall reward my knowledge with a "+" ? Mr.Huyton red

This thread is gonna be locked if people can't carry a debate without resorting to childish personal insults. Grow up!

Any more insults and there will be bans handed out.

Back on topic.

Who says he needs to "Rebuild" ?, we need strength in depth maybe 5 or 6 players  and a little better luck with injuries next time around.

Now please take car to read the remainder of this post, let it sink in to your brain and make a sound reasoned response

Now just imagine for a moment over the last two seasons we had a 30 million per season transfer budget thats a 20 million summer budget and a 10 million winter budget over two seasons that is 60 million.

60 million would have brought in 6x10 million players into the squad, think

60 million would have brought  us 4x15 million players into the squad think Turan, Mata, Sneijder, possibly even Silva two years ago or players of their stature valuation.

60 million would have brought in 3 x 20 million players into the squad.

What ever way you look at it our squad was ravaged with injuries all season long and has been underfunded in terms of strengthening over the past two seasons, had investment been forthcoming any of those scenarios above would certainly have helped us through it, maybe even kept us in the Champions League and in the title hunt.

Rafael Benitez has not shafted you, the greedy b***ard yanks who are paying off the debt they placed upon the club with the revenue that club generates itself  rather than investing it on strengthening the squad are the people who are shafting you, they are shafting you so hard, they are basically spit roasting you.

I'd always tries my best to answer a well written post with no abuses stuck in it, infact I can appreciate opinions as I expect others to respect mine. I have crossed the line I admit, and I apologize.

I have to repeat everytime that I know what we're facing and turning no blind eye. But the fact is that for the foreseeable future things are not going to get any better (bar miracle takeover by sugar daddy)

I guess you know how we hate the yanks for putting our beloved (maybe not great in others eye, but beloved by us) club into this mess. But I hope that for once we just shrug off the handicap and injury and make one rallying call and start actually just do our best which is to play football.

The thing is, with Rafa moaning like a child it is not going to change many things. The yanks knows it they won't and can't afford Rafa with 40-60M, and Rafa knows he won't be awarded with anything more than pocket money, the fans knows it. So in my honest opinion... he either live with it or hand it over to someone who can or at least accept the circumstances of the job.

We are far from promised land, but the first thing to do imho is to acknowledge it's a rocky road and be prepared for it. In my eyes Rafa has not prepared to endure the hardship and more like giving ultimatum if he's not given cash he'll walk away. Whether he's to blame / understandable it is a different story. But the point is, if he doesn't think he can do that, I'll take my chance on someone else, because believe is the first thing you must have, specially to manage a special club like LFC.

Consistency in Moderation 

Personally I think one thing we can all agree on is the slide in the clubs fortunes have escalated through lack of investment.

To stay on top even compete in any sport you have to invest accordingly, Take United as an example 80 million from Ronaldo's sale had all that been invested in the squad they would have possibly walked the title.

Whilst we continue to sell players to buy players and operate a transfer profit with no initial transfer budget for players, things will only get worse.

08/09 season net spend 2.5 m

09/10 season 6.5 net profit

That is by no mean the way to keep a club competitive, even more so when teh clubs around you are investing in their squads.

Wake up smell the coffee.

Consistency in Moderation 

Personally I think one thing we can all agree on is the slide in the clubs fortunes have escalated through lack of investment.

To stay on top even compete in any sport you have to invest accordingly, Take United as an example 80 million from Ronaldo's sale had all that been invested in the squad they would have possibly walked the title.

Whilst we continue to sell players to buy players and operate a transfer profit with no initial transfer budget for players, things will only get worse.

08/09 season net spend 2.5 m

09/10 season 6.5 net profit

That is by no mean the way to keep a club competitive, even more so when teh clubs around you are investing in their squads.

Wake up smell the coffee.

It is what I've been trying to get across.

I have woken up and smell the coffee. to put it plainly, we're in a mess, and if nobody's helping us, we must help ourself, not having a self pity would be a good start. We are LFC "DESPITE" all the sh*te.

The more we make excuses, subconsciously it justifies players as they think that even the fans understand if they're not performing.

We have to have double standard on this one, one for the yanks and one for the players.

There's no point crying foul, the world is not and never fair, we just have to man it up.

We can't expect god to turn back time and put everything on the same playing field. we can't expect Chelsea / Citeh not to outspend us, we cna't change the fact that the cnuts are leeching us dry, we CAN expect for miracles to happen, but I won't bet on it.

So it's time to actually stick together, and just do what we do best on the field.

and just do what we do best on the field.

Which without investment, will be scrapping for fourth at best. That's what you have to get into your head, and what people are trying to say. We will never get any better than last seasons performance, let alone this years, unless we stabilize club finances and can start strengthening the squad.

Which without investment, will be scrapping for fourth at best. That's what you have to get into your head, and what people are trying to say. We will never get any better than last seasons performance, let alone this years, unless we stabilize club finances and can start strengthening the squad.

Imagine if the players thinks like that, that at their very best they can only finish 4th. How would that effect them on the field? Nobody expect us to reach nevermind win in Istanbul, but we did. The first thing is to believe you can do it, because if there's no belief than even the best sportsmen failed.

off the field it is reality we must face and we as fans must work on it, but on the field it is no excuses, we have to play with belief we can beat anyone! And if the players doesn't enter the field with that kind of belief ... we'd be damned.

It is what I've been trying to get across.

I have woken up and smell the coffee. to put it plainly, we're in a mess, and if nobody's helping us, we must help ourself, not having a self pity would be a good start. We are LFC "DESPITE" all the sh*te.

The more we make excuses, subconsciously it justifies players as they think that even the fans understand if they're not performing.

We have to have double standard on this one, one for the yanks and one for the players.

I'm not making excuses for any one mate in all honesty I've maintained The owners have to take their fair shame of the blame for the lack of investment in the squad, I maintain Rafa has to take the fair share of blame for his failings, the players also have to take their fair share of blame for their failings too, However in the same breath the latter two could have been over come with Investment had it materialised over the last two seasons.

Now the lack of investment, injuries, players form Rafa's tactics substitutions persisting with players out of form etc etc, players form attitudes etc etc have all snowballed into one catastrophic season.

Can I place the sole blame on Rafa no I can't as there were so many circumstances out his control and some of the circumstances which were in his control were still being dictated to him by what he had available in terms of selecting players tactics etc.

Yes this season has been woeful and will go down as one to quickly forget, but to be honest given the circumstances that have hindered our season, I'm not too sure there is many would have managed to do much different, so for that reason I'm sticking with Rafa one real poor season in 6, I think I can give teh man teh benefit of the doubt.

I'm not making excuses for any one mate in all honesty I've maintained The owners have to take their fair shame of the blame for the lack of investment in the squad, I maintain Rafa has to take the fair share of blame for his failings, the players also have to take their fair share of blame for their failings too, However in the same breath the latter two could have been over come with Investment had it materialised over the last two seasons.

Now the lack of investment, injuries, players form Rafa's tactics substitutions persisting with players out of form etc etc, players form attitudes etc etc have all snowballed into one catastrophic season.

Can I place the sole blame on Rafa no I can't as there were so many circumstances out his control and some of the circumstances which were in his control were still being dictated to him by what he had available in terms of selecting players tactics etc.

Yes this season has been woeful and will go down as one to quickly forget, but to be honest given the circumstances that have hindered our season, I'm not too sure there is many would have managed to do much different, so for that reason I'm sticking with Rafa one real poor season in 6, I think I can give teh man teh benefit of the doubt.

What I meant is more in broader scope, excuses are not in Rafa's aspect alone but us as well. We're excusing ourself with the yanks (i'm not defending them, but we blame everything on them), but all of us have been using everything that has been happening as a get out of jail card. Again I stress, life is not always fair but sh*t happens.

It's not about Rafa tactical, or technical abilities anymore (sorry off topic), but back to the basic. it is about whether Rafa can accept that circumstances are not going to get better. If he can accept it and ready I'd give him another season, if he can't accept it and gave up we don't need him anyway.

The moment we accept or allowing mediocrity, it will weaken us. It's hard to claw back up as we all know for 20 years, and if we let ourself slip further, I fear it'll be harder.

It's not about Rafa tactical, or technical abilities anymore (sorry off topic), but back to the basic. it is about whether Rafa can accept that circumstances are not going to get better. If he can accept it and ready I'd give him another season, if he can't accept it and gave up we don't need him anyway.

Well going off press reports and the meeting with Broughton I can say that Rafa is ready to accept it as whats being reported is Rafa wants to know "If the funds he raises from selling players will be used for strengthening the squad" not "Can I have a transfer Budget Boss ?

That to me says he's willing to accept things are not going to get much better.

Well going off press reports and the meeting with Broughton I can say that Rafa is ready to accept it as whats being reported is Rafa wants to know "If the funds he raises from selling players will be used for strengthening the squad" not "Can I have a transfer Budget Boss ?

That to me says he's willing to accept things are not going to get much better.

The truth is still out there, it can go either way, or pehaps another different direction at this stage.

The truth is still out there, it can go either way, or pehaps another different direction at this stage.

Well we wait on with baited breath as there is no saying a change of owner won't bring a change of manager anything can happen if the club changes hands.

Imagine if the players thinks like that, that at their very best they can only finish 4th. How would that effect them on the field? Nobody expect us to reach nevermind win in Istanbul, but we did. The first thing is to believe you can do it, because if there's no belief than even the best sportsmen failed.

I think the effect on the players has been shown through Gerrard's attitude.

I think the effect on the players has been shown through Gerrard's attitude.

I don't honestly think Gerrard's attitude was his the problem this season, he seemed to be trying, but just couldn't keep it going. Thats what happens when a team becomes over reliant on just a few players! We need a plan B.

Angelic's right off the post counter again.

Last to a thousand is a cissy is it.?  

As I've said before, I wish all these noisy Rafa-bashers would take the time to actually learn some facts about our club and help us get rid of the owners before there is no club to argue over. But they won't. It all comes down to Rafa.

Hell, if LFC goes to the wall they'll probably say that was Rafa's fault as well. I don't get some people. Honestly...they're just so clueless. I honestly don't know how you can be so clueless as to whats going on at the club you "support" and still think your opinion about them is valid.

Whilst i appreciate we are being totally shafted by the 2 owners,some of Rafa's selections and tactics this season have been baffling,namely being, playing Lucas and kuyt, when for the most part, they have being totally sh*te,and one of the main reasons we have being so poor this season.

This is not a question about money,I'm not saying we could have won the league but we could have done a lot better if Rafa had sent out better sides than he has done,and to stick with these 2 for most of the season was beyond belief,Skankly or Paisley would have dropped them like a stone,if there not playing well they don't play ,simple as,the 1st team is not the place to find your form,a spell in the reserves is what was needed.

Looking at the trophies we have won under Rafa its fair to say that Steven Gerard was pretty much unstoppable in those 2 seasons and would have been the 1st name down on any managers team sheet,but had he not played in the European cup or FA cup final Rafa would be potless after 6 years.

playing Lucas and kuyt, when for the most part, they have being totally sh*te,and one of the main reasons we have being so poor this season.

Just to give you some basic facts, Lucas was one of our better players this season. And the main reason this season was piss poor was that everyone was injured for months on end without sufficient investment in squad depth to cope.

I agree with Sebby to be honest the persistence with Lucas, Kuyt and Insua cost us loads of points this season however I can't really use that as a stick to beat Rafa with as his selections at times were more often than not forced due to injuries.