Everton 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match Debates

What a load of crap.

No I don't want to change course, I've explained what I have issue with, the "brilliant" tag for a job that is looking very ordinary and I suggest you stop assuming choices for others, it makes you look like a fool.

Well we must both be par for the course then.

decent points tally so far.

Ah, I see... "so far".

I guess you must be taking some sort of interim measurement then and obviously your method is sound enough that you don't need to wait 'til May, like the rest of us. Cool... care to share it?   

Ah, I see... "so far".

I guess you must be taking some sort of interim measurement then and obviously your method is sound enough that you don't need to wait 'til May, like the rest of us. Cool... care to share it?   

It's what I perceive, nothing more, nothing less. Note the 'I believe' earlier on in the post. You're better than this bbb....unless you can measure my perceptions? Do you have a table to measure my perceptions? May I see that?

It's what I perceive, nothing more nothing less.

Your perceptions must be based on something tangible tho'; just like ours.

Fair enough FMS: nothing worth getting het up about then. Certainly not worth falling out over. 

It's what I perceive, nothing more, nothing less. Note the 'I believe' earlier on in the post. You're better than this bbb....unless you can measure my perceptions? Do you have a table to measure my perceptions? May I see that?

I think the problem is that the difference between our success against poor clubs and the better clubs is so big. If we were having reasonable success against the better clubs the perception that it is only because we have played more poor clubs so far wouldn't have as much impact, and most would be happy to use the league table alone as a measure of our progress. The fact that our record against the better clubs is so poor, it leads most people to be a little more circumspect when it comes to judging our progress. So they tend to balance this against the league table by using a further gauge of how we compare this season against particular teams to how we did last season.

As I said if our results against the better sides led us to believe we would achieve a similar number of points when we play them, there would not be a problem. The fact that we have (up to now) achieved no where near the same level of success against the better teams leads some of us to think that once we have played all our games the league may not look quite as good, hence the table now may give a slightly false perception of our progress, whereas looking at what points we gained last season against the same opponents might give a truer reflection of our progress

We have made progress so far this season, I am sure most would agree. It is how much progress and the best way to measure it that is causing many of the arguments. 4 points or 9 points better than last season.... you pays your money and you take your choice. Personally I go with the 4 points better argument.... it's progress but not as you know it

 

Wow, it's amazing some of the posts are getting on the page past all the dick swinging. 

Didn't get to watch the game yesterday, watched it today and after reading the posts on here.

Only two saves from Mignolet that weren't above and beyond what I expect from a top keeper.  Saw little mention of Johnson, who was actively our worst player, though Allen was 'inactively' our worst player, absolutely anonymous and fluffed the chance to redeem himself.  Saw some bad mouthing and praise for Flanagan, thought he had a good game and although he got beaten badly twice, both times were more the opposition player doing his job well, rather than Jon being sh*te. One of the flaws of the Skrtel and Agger partnership was on display during Everton's first.  Namely neither takes control effectively at set pieces, Skrtel tried and briefly, after Lucas intervened, Agger seemed to listen then ignored it.  Though that first goal was a combination of errors, during the build up to the free kick. Gerarrd, who after reading the thread before watching the game, I was expecting nothing of, was not as bad as I'd anticipated, leggy, positionally challenged and has a huge portion of blame in the first goal but more lacklustre than awful, as I'd been led to believe. Whilst Henderson wasn't hugely influential, we shouldn't ignore some of his great movement off-the-ball, especially one which Suarez ignored completely and if the roles were reversed, Luis and fans alike would have been, rightly, very annoyed. Though Jordan definitely faded when moved inside.  Coutinho and Suarez were isolated from play, actually think that Coutinho forced himself back into the game during the second half and Suarez had a tough day and is going to be black and blue today.

Mostly I was disappointed we failed to keep a high pressing line against a back four that looked vunerable. That kind of lies at the feet of Rodgers who maybe should have changed things earlier.

Only on a Liverpool forum could our team finish 7th in the league then be 2nd a third of the way into the following season and people claim we haven't really progressed. Utterly bizarre.

Lukaku wouldn't have gotten the better of this beast

I loved Kyrgiakos. Perfect for certain type of game.

Lukaku wouldn't have gotten the better of this beast

Sorry mate but I have to disagree.. Lukaku is a decent player and would've turned Kyrgiakos inside out yesterday i'm afraid..
We actually had a quality international animal by the name of Sako who could've patrolled him but he sat on the bench throughout the whole game..

Only on a Liverpool forum could our team finish 7th in the league then be 2nd a third of the way into the following season and people claim we haven't really progressed. Utterly bizarre.

You only have to look at Coutinho and Sturridge to see where and why we have progressed. We finally have two players that can score goals again in Sturridge and Suarez and someone who can create goals for them in Coutinho.  For me they are the main reason we are now putting poor teams to the sword, I am not sure why we can't seem to beat the better sides. Hopefully we are just one or two players short.... and they will hopefully join us in the next transfer window.

Not forgetting Mignolet....

24 games against the top 10 and won 5, really? I didn't know that and when you compare it with Kenny beating our main rivals sides 9 times in just a year it does put into contrast different levels of "progress". (main rivals included United, City, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal)

Exactly why I still remain far from convinced about Brendan, the proof is on the pitch not in front of a microphone.

Interesting stat that and you could say a tad worrying, certainly not good enough, however, we have to bear in mind that we are still in transition and still to early to judge BR, I believe he is working under financial restraints which seriously curtail the level of quality of player he wants to bring in,

All those top sides have arguably better quality players than we have currently and until that is addressed we will continue to struggle against the better equipped sides, SIMPLES !

YNWA

Sorry mate but I have to disagree.. Lukaku is a decent player and would've turned Kyrgiakos inside out yesterday i'm afraid..

See my post was wasted on some people.

Interesting stat that and you could say a tad worrying, certainly not good enough, however, we have to bear in mind that we are still in transition and still to early to judge BR, I believe he is working under financial restraints which seriously curtail the level of quality of player he wants to bring in,

All those top sides have arguably better quality players than we have currently and until that is addressed we will continue to struggle against the better equipped sides, SIMPLES !

YNWA

That is results against the top 10 teams mate. Not sure teams like Swansea, Newcastle etc have many better players than us.  Arsenal, Citeh, Chelsea and the mancs  even Spurs.... fair enough we have to punch above our weight against them at the moment. 

That is results against the top 10 teams mate. Not sure teams like Swansea, Newcastle etc have many better players than us.  Arsenal, Citeh, Chelsea and the mancs  even Spurs.... fair enough we have to punch above our weight against them at the moment. 

Fair comment S@int, let's see what happens in the Jan window, last season BR  purchased the services of Sturridge & Coutinho, they both have been superb, you never know he could pull another couple of rabbits this Jan too, I doubt it tho but never say never eh ?

YNWA

Fair comment S@int, let's see what happens in the Jan window, last season BR  purchased the services of Sturridge & Coutinho, they both have been superb, you never know he could pull another couple of rabbits this Jan too, I doubt it tho but never say never eh ?

YNWA

I honestly believe that's all we are short of.... two more buys like Coutinho and Sturridge and I think we could go all the way, never mind top 4.

As for the progress that keeps getting mentioned, what progress?!

This compared to this. The table does not lie.

Utd drew 5 and lost 5 last season. Good to see we're not even a third of the season in and the scum have already draw 3 and lost 3. As scummy as Spurs are themselves, I wouldn't mind seeing them wallop the scum next week.

If we can average 2pts a game, then all rest assured we'd have secured champions league football for next season. It's an incredibly tough season for every team, and points will be dropped for every team.

Right now, 4pts separates 2nd position to 9th. This time last season, 11pts was the difference between 2nd and 9th position.

It's going to be one hell of a season ladies and gentleman!

Dowd is a f**king coward.

Needed to be said.

Totally agree!

If I was a neutral supporter I would agree that it was a fantastic game. End to end stuff, loads of chances etc etc. However I am not a neutral supporter, so when I see defending as poor as ours was yesterday I don't think "great that will make it a fantastic game".... I think what the f**k are we doing.

When I see a player kick Suarez and not get sent off, I don't think that it makes for a better game.... I think what the f**k was the ref doing.

Yes there has probably been some over-reaction, but I see it as 2 points dropped in a game we could and should have won (with decent defending) rather than a point won.

I worry that we seem to fall back on the same tactics every time we are pressurize. We stop playing through midfield and just lump the ball up field in the hope that Suarez can produce a miracle.

Exciting game that I am sure everyone enjoyed BUT I would have preferred a less exciting game that we won 3-1 .... but maybe that's just me?

 

All with you for this mate.

Only on a Liverpool forum could our team finish 7th in the league then be 2nd a third of the way into the following season and people claim we haven't really progressed. Utterly bizarre.

Nearly as bizarre as suggesting, in one breath, [after a draw with Newcastle] that it's "The end of the beginning" and three games later [after a win against Fulham] saying "We are seriously going to challenge for the title"? 

Nearly as bizarre as suggesting, in one breath, that it's "The end of the beginning" and two games later saying "We are seriously going to challenge for the title"? 

I was always confused with that one.Was it the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end.
What matters is we are a few weeks away from the Jan window and Brendan said only yesterday he only played Flanno because his squad is so small.
If we can keep with in a sniff of top 4 by the end of the year FSG HAVE to give Brendan the tools he needs to do his job.
We deserved to win on Saturday because they should have had 10 men on the field and how can Brendan be blamed for Allen's mad moment.
I would say this is the middle of the beginning but not the beginning of the end.

Cant believe only 5 voted for Luis.The man travelled around the world in a week  and he looked fresher than anyone .Hope we don't get to a point were we take him for granted my MOTM by a long way just for being there.

I was always confused with that one.Was it the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end.

I think it all becomes clear when you read the opening post in that thread.

Whether one believes that we are 9 points better [because of the table 'this time last season'] or 4 points better [because of the fixtures we've played] is immaterial. Admittedly one will make you feel better than the other but hang your coat on whichever peg you want - both show improvement and neither actually claim "we haven't really progressed" 

Saturday was as tight as may have been expected and every bit as frenetic as last season's 2 -2 draw and... just like then; we could have won it if it weren't for some shitty refereeing.