1. You didn't address the point, you wouldn't swap with Arsenal Spurs or Chelsea even though between them they're going for 3rd and 4th and getting into the FA Cup final? but instead be floundering in 8th and looking forward to the Europa League next season? Ludacris.
Arsenal aren't fighting it out to be in the FA Cup final but never mind that, I still wouldn't swap where we are for them because I do not see coming fourth as a success. I don't see eighth as a success either surprisingly enough. I do, however, see winning a trophy as success.
2. Fair enough, we won it 4 times in a row in the 80's, the same 80's when most of our players weren't born, there was no Sky, Premiership or Champions League stranglehold on the game. Romanticise the cup days out all you want, fact is their pay outs are minimal, they wreak havoc with fixtures and the squad - losing Lucas being the prime example.
Well alright then we'll talk since there was a Champions League and since there was a Premiership. The League Cup is the trophy we have won most during that era - four times in 95, 01, 03 and 2012. So whether you want to dismiss it or not, we've always cared about the League Cup. As for playing havoc with fixtures and the squad, that will happen just as much in Europe as it will in domestic trophies. Injuries don't stop just because you're in Europe.
3. Were you envious of Birmingham last year? ask around I'm sure you have plenty of mates supporting other top teams, ask them were they in anyway envious of us this season - or instead were they laughing at the fact we needed 3 penalty misses to close out a championship side? While we're at it define 'major trophy' there are only 4 maximum to compete for? so they can't all be major - unless the Charity Shield is a minor trophy to us now? maybe we can parade that round next season on an open top bus.
Yes I was envious of seeing Birmingham lift a trophy, especially given that we went out to Northampton. And me mates don't support other teams, it's a straight choice between Liverpool or Everton. And I know a lot of Everton fans taking the piss out of me when Cardiff were winning, I know a lot of Everton fans who were taking the piss out of me when Cardiff equalised in the dying minutes of extra time, I know a lot of Everton fans who were taking the piss out of me when Gerrard and Adam missed their spot kicks. I also know a lot of Everton fans who I didn't hear a murmur off once Stevie walked those steps and lifted the League Cup for our record breaking eighth time.
As for a major trophy - League, FA Cup, League Cup, European Cup. They to me are the four major cups, not sure how that's hard to understand but obviously was for you.
4. 'Place in Europe' isn't accurate, places in the Europa League and Champions League are vastly different! Champions League group stage payout is more to each team regardless of results than the winner of the EL gets. Plus there's the constant Thursday-Sunday fixtures leading to playing catch up and the 'games in hand' mentality
And you get into the Champions League by winning the FA Cup now do you? You said the FA Cup had more value, I simply stated you get the same for winning the FA Cup as you do the Carling Cup. You've now brought up Champions League into this part of the debate for reasons I can't fathom. And the Thursday-Sunday is no different to Wednesday-Saturday. Even though we end up playing on a Sunday a fair bit even when we're not in the Champions League anyway due to our global appeal, companies want to show us live as much as possible.
5. You want to see embarrassingly low? look where we are in the league now, correct me if I'm wrong but the ultimate aim here is to win a league title is it not? Everything else is a bonus. We will never attract the players to win it if we become a cup team, which essentially is what we're hoping to achieve this season, a reflection of the dire situation.
Yes our League position is embarrissingly low. Then again so is second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. And yes the ultimate aim is to win the League title. But to do that you need to have the winning mentality that winning trophies breeds. 20 years ago Man United won the League Cup, 19 years ago Man United won their first League Title in over a quarter of a century. FA Cup in 90, League Cup in 92, League title in 93. Arsenal won the League Cup in 87 (against us funnily enough) and won the League in 89 for the first time since their double winning side in 71 (where they also beat us in the FA Cup final). Chelsea won the League Cup in 2005 (against us) and went on to win the League that year - their first title in half a century.
Winning trophies breeds success, it gives you the knowledge that you can win and handle the pressure.
You mightn't like it but my opinions are unashamedly based around revenue - money makes the world go round, especially the world of professional football, the clubs needs to generate it to be successful, domestic cups and sh*te league positions don't do that. We need 4th place as a base to build a better team. Anyone thinking domestic cups are the launchpad required for league success is sadly mistaken
No I don't like it, you're right because to me you're supporting a business model and not a football club. If it's all down to money, which is all I ever hear, maybe you can explain why a side like Norwich are not rock bottom of the League. Maybe you can explain why Everton are currently above us. Maybe you can explain why Man City are not top of the table.
Money is all good and well but if you spend it poorly then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, on the other hand if you spend the little money you have quite wisely then it can be a god send. That is regardless of whether or not you're in the top four.