NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

No, my point is, are the players we bought really that much of an improvement to our players of last season?  It seems as if the committee and Rodgers (not FSG) decided the best option was to improve the squad.

Moreno > Enrique, Flanno or Johnson as a left back?
Lambert & Balo > Sturridge or our system?
Lovren > Sakho or Agger as LCB?
Markovic > Ibe, Sterling, Coutinho or Sturridge as inside foward?
Lallana > Coutinho or Sterling as #10?
Can > Lucas, Hendo or Skrtel as DM, CM or CB?

I'd actually say no to all, and if we bought to improve our first team rather than squad, I doubt we'd be in such a mess. Also, buying for first team, we'd push last seasons first teamers on the bench which would improve our squad.

No, my point is, are the players we bought really that much of an improvement to our players of last season?  It seems as if the committee and Rodgers (not FSG) decided the best option was to improve the squad.

Moreno > Enrique, Flanno or Johnson as a left back?
Lambert & Balo > Sturridge or our system?
Lovren > Sakho or Agger as LCB?
Markovic > Ibe, Sterling, Coutinho or Sturridge as inside foward?
Lallana > Coutinho or Sterling as #10?
Can > Lucas, Hendo or Skrtel as DM, CM or CB?

I'd actually say no to all, and if we bought to improve our first team rather than squad, I doubt we'd be in such a mess. Also, buying for first team, we'd push last seasons first teamers on the bench which would improve our squad.

I am looking at it differently as we are talking squad players and the need for them or do the new players push the old starters to the bench and thus make the bench stronger. And some of this is based off potential, it is very easy to look in the rearview mirror 9 months later so lets not do that.

Moreno is brought in and pushes Enrique/Flanno to bench = better than Kelly/Cissokho on the bench
Lambert/Balo Better than Aspas/Borini (if we could of gotten rid of)
Lovren was cover for Agger...I know we love Daniel but in part he gave reasons for leaving and was oft injured
Markovic/Lallana/Can Better than  Alberto, Moses, more experience than Ibe (unknown quality at the time) and oft injured Lucas and an aging Gerrard.

So yes sir top to bottom we improved our first team depth wise.

I also in many posts above ours argued that we need better starting XI and I hope to see that in the next few windows now that we have sorted depth somewhat.

Once again Purple, its a long season and you know as well as I do that with Cups, Europe and Injuries that if your trotting out Aly Cissikho, Victor Moses, Luis Alberto and Iago Aspas of the bench your fu**ed.

Suarez and Sturridge covered up a lot of issues with that starting XI, So with him leaving and no way to replace him they looked to round out the team overalls quality.

Now that done I want too see 1-2 top rated players who are going to push Moreno, Lucas or even a Skrtel to the bench...because if we get players that can do that we are truly moving forward.

Have a good night.

It's strange that people are trying to argue otherwise AZ.

It does come across as being daft to just plod along, ignoring what has been written said on the subject by journalists, Brendan Stevie and John Henry himself mate. It certainly doesn't take a detective to figure it out but... what I find "strange" is the 'logic' applied. Bear with me...

Let's pretend that I too wholeheartedly believe that Brendan is to blame for poor recruitment; that it is he who has built a team of underachievers; that he has failed to deliver in his time here.

It's only natural for 'me' to then reach (what I would see as) the logical conclusion that Brendan is inadequate [the wrong man to lead LFC, if you prefer]. That, in turn, might, very well, lead for me to call for him to be moved on. Agree with 'me' or not - there is definitely a certain logic being applied. Still with me?...

Here's the rub... having decided on a logic, which has 'me' blaming Brendan for poor recruitment; for building a team of underachievers; for failing to deliver in his time in charge: I really should apply that same rationale elsewhere...

I would have to (if I'm being genuine and not hypocritical) ask: Who recruited Brendan; who built this team [manager/transfer committee/Ayre] of underachievers and who have failed to deliver success in their time here? ["Answers on a post-card to..."]

In short: why, (if I am using the same, sound, logic that I apply to Brendan), don't I see that FSG can't escape blame?

"Hypocritical", "Retarded", "Strange", "Crazy" or even "Mad", call it what you want... it doesn't add up.   

Some great points below, i think BR was given a breif of spread the LS cash as far as you can to add depth to the squad which he's done but its just a shame not all of them have lived upto the hype given to them.
Markovich been in and out and looks scared to run with the ball but i think will improve
ballotelli is just being Mario he's more of a drama star than top footballer(has ability but not the mentality)
lovren has lost his way since taking step up from Saints which is mental again, still think he will come good
Moreno again sees the step up as a massive leap and now has had that wake up call should come good.
Can taken to the prem like a duck to water he's going to be a top player
sakho had a few annoying injuries need him to be fit for a full season but really rate him also
mignolet starting to show why we got him as last few weeks he's saved us alot and will improve but needs competition(cech? maybe)

Now the problem lies when the board dont want to got into the 27,28yr old market and pay high fees as they dont see sell on value which worries me. it shouldnt ALWAYS be about the sell on value and more about the now factor of if we dont get players in of the standard of say Benzima,higuain, lacazette, Kedheria, just to mention a few off top of my head we wont get near top 4 yet again. The longer we are a team struggling for top 4 with no CL the further the gap will grow and players will stop coming just because of the name of LFC.

Massive summer yet again (we've been saying that for the past 4 seasons) ahead for FSG to show that they do care and its not Just a business, yes its an investment to them and it needs to make money but to be successful we need to spend what ever cash they give us correctly. Ian Ayire also needs to take some of the blame for not closing deals quicker but hay that's just my ten pence

It does come across as being daft to just plod along, ignoring what has been written said on the subject by journalists, Brendan Stevie and John Henry himself mate. It certainly doesn't take a detective to figure it out but... what I find "strange" is the 'logic' applied. Bear with me...

Let's pretend that I too wholeheartedly believe that Brendan is to blame for poor recruitment; that it is he who has built a team of underachievers; that he has failed to deliver in his time here.

It's only natural for 'me' to then reach (what I would see as) the logical conclusion that Brendan is inadequate [the wrong man to lead LFC, if you prefer]. That, in turn, might, very well, lead for me to call for him to be moved on. Agree with 'me' or not - there is definitely a certain logic being applied. Still with me?...

Here's the rub... having decided on a logic, which has 'me' blaming Brendan for poor recruitment; for building a team of underachievers; for failing to deliver in his time in charge: I really should apply that same rationale elsewhere...

I would have to (if I'm being genuine and not hypocritical) ask: Who recruited Brendan; who built this team [manager/transfer committee/Ayre] of underachievers and who have failed to deliver success in their time here? ["Answers on a post-card to..."]

In short: why, (if I am using the same, sound, logic that I apply to Brendan), don't I see that FSG can't escape blame?

"Hypocritical", "Retarded", "Strange", "Crazy" or even "Mad", call it what you want... it doesn't add up.   

On the money as per mate.
As you intimate it is something of a mystery how our owners who are responsible for far more appointments and decisions (some would venture more than is required) escape the finger of blame.
Could there be any relevance in the multitude of culprit choices and our owners lack of blame??

So for those who think our owners can do no wrong and prefer to blame Brendan for losing our best players and not replacing them properly, why didn't he get sacked?

I mean surely if he's wasted all this money on crap players wouldn't they get rid of him?

So for those who think our owners can do no wrong and prefer to blame Brendan for losing our best players and not replacing them properly, why didn't he get sacked?

I mean surely if he's wasted all this money on crap players wouldn't they get rid of him?

Hadn't you heard Debs.

The manager, transfer committee and MD are working to their own tune and oblivious to what the owners want.

FSG say one thing and all the employees do the opposite yet stay in a job.

Hadn't you heard Debs.

The manager, transfer committee and MD are working to their own tune and oblivious to what the owners want.

FSG say one thing and all the employees do the opposite yet stay in a job.

Strange isn't it Si.

So for those who think our owners can do no wrong and prefer to blame Brendan for losing our best players and not replacing them properly, why didn't he get sacked?

I mean surely if he's wasted all this money on crap players wouldn't they get rid of him?

As posted Debs that is the abiding mystery.
According to the FSG apologists the manager and his staff, the committees, the scouts and a certain Tom Cobbly are responsible for our ongoing malaise.
These people are appointed by JWH & Co whose business acumen is we are assured, unquestionable.
The financial stats trotted out by the same apologists must in some way compensate for the shitty fortunes being experienced by our soccer team!?!?
The logic of the above eludes at this moment in time - however an answer does beckon!
Some vino with the scran and copious amounts of Guinness and brandy should provide a distraction and crazy solutions to the above quandary.
 

So for those who think our owners can do no wrong and prefer to blame Brendan for losing our best players and not replacing them properly, why didn't he get sacked?

I mean surely if he's wasted all this money on crap players wouldn't they get rid of him?

I'm here to defend FSG as you, or others would defend Rodgers. I'm sure FSG has their flaws, as does Rodgers, but I just feel People blaming FSG for the transfers is ridiculous. Every club has a budget and some sort of committee, but with our committee, along with Rodgers, it's been huge fail thus far, failing to scout players for the first team, or replacing our big name players. As I said before, we already had a decent squad, and I'm sure we could've bought 4 first team players(within the FSG policy, or slightly over step it) to improve our first eleven rather than 9 squad players.... unless, FSG told them to do that?

As for sacking Rodgers, why would they? The transfer dealings happened in the summer and despite a weak first half of the season, Rodgers has changed things around and proved himself to be capable. Let's not forget last season too. This in my opinion shows he deserves another season which as it stands, FSG are willing to do.

The way I see it, the problem isn't so much FSG or Rodgers, the problem seems to lie mostly in the committee, scouts, and our transfer dealings. A Manager can't scout every player in world football, can he? He needs a team, a team that he is comfortable to work along side with and trust.

So with these transfer failings, why hasn't FSG changed things around? Maybe because Rodgers is happy with the working environment, or maybe it's FSG who are happy with it and Rodgers isn't?  I do not know entirely which it is, but I am leaning towards the former because nothing really suggests the latter, where as, there has been many times where I read Rodgers is happy with it and has final say.

I'm here to defend FSG as you, or others would defend Rodgers. I'm sure FSG has their flaws, as does Rodgers, but I just feel People blaming FSG for the transfers is ridiculous. Every club has a budget and some sort of committee, but with our committee, along with Rodgers, it's been huge fail thus far, failing to scout players for the first team, or replacing our big name players. As I said before, we already had a decent squad, and I'm sure we could've bought 4 first team players(within the FSG policy, or slightly over step it) to improve our first eleven rather than 9 squad players.... unless, FSG told them to do that?

As for sacking Rodgers, why would they? The transfer dealings happened in the summer and despite a weak first half of the season, Rodgers has changed things around and proved himself to be capable. Let's not forget last season too. This in my opinion shows he deserves another season which as it stands, FSG are willing to do.

The way I see it, the problem isn't so much FSG or Rodgers, the problem seems to lie mostly in the committee, scouts, and our transfer dealings. A Manager can't scout every player in world football, can he? He needs a team, a team that he is comfortable to work along side with and trust.

So with these transfer failings, why hasn't FSG changed things around? Maybe because Rodgers is happy with the working environment, or maybe it's FSG who are happy with it and Rodgers isn't?  I do not know entirely which it is, but I am leaning towards the former because nothing really suggests the latter, where as, there has been many times where I read Rodgers is happy with it and has final say.

The "budget" they have provided is a disgrace.

But aside from that, we HAD a quality team. We just keep selling all the decent players. Including our best ever player this Summer.

Fenway are addicted to selling players for profit. And slashing the wages of the snr players.

Thats not a recipe for footballing success. Its not even a recipe for maintaining the "club"/"brand" (whatever bullshit phrase) as a "top level" one.

Manc City, Arsehole FC, and Chelski etc aren't just replacing us for silverware. They're replacing us as the clubs/"teams" the supporters around Britain, Europe, the World will actually want to bother starting to support.

So the longer these buggers keep hold of the club, the worse it will get. Even the Echo are now calling us a habitually selling club. So for them to start withdrawing propaganda support, you know things are looking sh*t. Writers like Evans and Barrett have been saying how our future is looking grim, even if we haven't seen things fully extrapolate yet. But make no mistake, with this abuse continuing, we will no longer be a "big club" in any way shape or form.

The "budget" they have provided is a disgrace.

But aside from that, we HAD a quality team. We just keep selling all the decent players. Including our best ever player this Summer.

Fenway are addicted to selling players for profit. And slashing the wages of the snr players.

Thats not a recipe for footballing success. Its not even a recipe for maintaining the "club"/"brand" (whatever bullshit phrase) as a "top level" one.

Manc City, Arsehole FC, and Chelski etc aren't just replacing us for silverware. They're replacing us as the clubs/"teams" the supporters around Britain, Europe, the World will actually want to bother starting to support.

So the longer these buggers keep hold of the club, the worse it will get. Even the Echo are now calling us a habitually selling club. So for them to start withdrawing propaganda support, you know things are looking sh*t. Writers like Evans and Barrett have been saying how our future is looking grim, even if we haven't seen things fully extrapolate yet. But make no mistake, with this abuse continuing, we will no longer be a "big club" in any way shape or form.

When will you get it in your head about Suarez, he was leaving whatever he was offered here. Cant blame anyone for that one.

The "budget" they have provided is a disgrace.

Is 117m really that much of a disgrace during FFP era? We could have easily spent it on 4 x 25m exceptional players with money left over?

But aside from that, we HAD a quality team. We just keep selling all the decent players. Including our best ever player this Summer.

The only player FSG sold that was really out of their hands was Suarez? Reina and Agger wasn't favoured by Rodgers and let's not forget, Downing & Carroll was sold at a loss.

Fenway are addicted to selling players for profit. And slashing the wages of the snr players.

I do understand why we reduced the players wages, we had been a mid table team when they took over, and have been for the last 4-5 season, and with FFP incoming, it was kind of inevitable?

Manc City, Arsehole FC, and Chelski etc aren't just replacing us for silverware. They're replacing us as the clubs/"teams" the supporters around Britain, Europe, the World will actually want to bother starting to support.

As for Man City and Chelsea, they got lucky with their owners and no FFP at the time, they are up there because they cheated their way to the top. Arsenal, however, were in the wilderness for years like us, but the difference was, they had a world class manager bringing them modern day success in CL every season and spending very little due to the new Stadium, and now, with FFP in place, they are reaping the benefits and looks as if they're slowly becoming a force once again.

So the longer these buggers keep hold of the club, the worse it will get. Even the Echo are now calling us a habitually selling club. So for them to start withdrawing propaganda support, you know things are looking sh*t. Writers like Evans and Barrett have been saying how our future is looking grim, even if we haven't seen things fully extrapolate yet. But make no mistake, with this abuse continuing, we will no longer be a "big club" in any way shape or form.

The real anger should be aimed at the cowboys, not FSG, they were the reason for our major downfall. I honestly felt we were on the verge of becoming one of the best teams in the world for years to come, but then, those cowboys ruined it all   Also, performance on the pitch and becoming a mid table team for the last few seasons hasn't helped too.

Might as well forget it guys, he's not going to respond to logical arguments. I've brought it up time and again how we aren't selling for the sake of selling but he ignores that and goes on about peddling his hyperbole.

We need to start winning again as he will then crawl back to RAWK and stop posting crap here.

Might as well forget it guys, he's not going to respond to logical arguments. I've brought it up time and again how we aren't selling for the sake of selling but he ignores that and goes on about peddling his hyperbole.

We need to start winning again as he will then crawl back to RAWK and stop posting crap here.

Give the man some credit he is firm in his belief, he could also reverse your stance on matters pertaining  to Fenway. Just because he does not agree with your point of view does not mean he is wrong.
 For my point of view I was glad when Fenway took over from Twit and tw*t but feel we have not progresses 1 iota since Moores sold out. All we hear is next season, next season but next season never arrives.

Give the man some credit he is firm in his belief, he could also reverse your stance on matters pertaining  to Fenway. Just because he does not agree with your point of view does not mean he is wrong.
 For my point of view I was glad when Fenway took over from Twit and T**t but feel we have not progresses 1 iota since Moores sold out. All we hear is next season, next season but next season never arrives.

Billy,

It is possible to form an opinion and express it without acting like a c**t is it not?

Don't like FSG fine...no problem but to consistently come in like a propaganda machine, insult other posters who think differently and then disappear when asked to provide proof to the claims is bullshit.

He disappears when we are doing good, reappears at the slightest inkling of problems and then belittle other posters while spamming the exact same lines over and over again.

I disagree with 75% of Feds posts, and i get tired of reading about Henderson and Allen...but that being said I would take 100 Fed's any day of the week because at least he debates his ideas and in general is a nice fellow that even when disagreeing treats other posters with civility.

I would expect better and would think you would also.

Give the man some credit he is firm in his belief

So if someone is firm in the belief that the sky is green and not blue should I give them credit?

he could also reverse your stance on matters pertaining  to Fenway. Just because he does not agree with your point of view does not mean he is wrong.

Absolutely it doesn't mean he's wrong, but he won't put forth any actual facts to support his assertions. He's been pleaded with to explain how we are selling all of our talent (and I've provided my assertions for why we haven't), but he continues to ignore it.

For my point of view I was glad when Fenway took over from Twit and T**t but feel we have not progresses 1 iota since Moores sold out. All we hear is next season, next season but next season never arrives.

I don't really like or trust FSG, but they are a necessary evil as fan ownership is not going to work in this day and age and I don't know of any Scouse billionaires that are looking to buy the club?


Billy, maybe you should take a step back. You go on and on about how Skip was treated, well AP has the same degrading, caustic, grating slant to his posts as those people that you condemned for slagging off Skip.

Not to mention, he's nowhere to be seen when things are going "well". He only crawls out from under his rock when there's some uphevel, almost as if he's got an agenda to try and unsettle things further.

I'm here to defend FSG as you, or others would defend Rodgers. I'm sure FSG has their flaws, as does Rodgers, but I just feel People blaming FSG for the transfers is ridiculous. Every club has a budget and some sort of committee, but with our committee, along with Rodgers, it's been huge fail thus far, failing to scout players for the first team, or replacing our big name players. As I said before, we already had a decent squad, and I'm sure we could've bought 4 first team players(within the FSG policy, or slightly over step it) to improve our first eleven rather than 9 squad players.... unless, FSG told them to do that?

As for sacking Rodgers, why would they? The transfer dealings happened in the summer and despite a weak first half of the season, Rodgers has changed things around and proved himself to be capable. Let's not forget last season too. This in my opinion shows he deserves another season which as it stands, FSG are willing to do.

The way I see it, the problem isn't so much FSG or Rodgers, the problem seems to lie mostly in the committee, scouts, and our transfer dealings. A Manager can't scout every player in world football, can he? He needs a team, a team that he is comfortable to work along side with and trust.

So with these transfer failings, why hasn't FSG changed things around? Maybe because Rodgers is happy with the working environment, or maybe it's FSG who are happy with it and Rodgers isn't?  I do not know entirely which it is, but I am leaning towards the former because nothing really suggests the latter, where as, there has been many times where I read Rodgers is happy with it and has final say.

Sorry for the late reply mate, just got in from work. 

I have defended FSG many times, the same as I've criticised them when I've seen fit.  I'm not a "hater" like some, I see the good they are doing and how we've improved in a lot of areas of the Club.

I understand we don't have a bottomless pit of money, that we can't compete financially for transfers/wages with the "mega rich clubs", that we have to do things differently by developing our own whether bought in or through the Academy. 

I actually believe, and posted as much a couple of weeks ago, that I don't think they view our player acquisitions in the same way a lot of fans do ie a failure because there's still time for most of them to develop, in their eyes.  No they won't necessarily be good enough to play for us but they'll not make a huge loss when they're sold and if they make a small profit on them, then even better.

Having said all that, there is something critically wrong with our recruitment policy, from start to finish and only they can change it.  This summer could be huge for the Club if it hasn't been changed as another window without proven quality and experience could see this very young squad crumble.

Crumble as in the mental state and/or crumble because we're going knowing and more talent wants to leave and/or crumble because Brendan gets sacked due to having trouble fitting in another half dozen "potentials". 

Give him the right tools, that fit the job he needs them for and just watch this very young squad prosper and start winning Titles.  That's what I want them to do because I love this damn Club.

Fenway: The brand that likes to say sh*te!

especially via Johnny's little footsoldiers..

Personally, I'm looking forward to a GREAT weekend with lots of sex

So if someone is firm in the belief that the sky is green and not blue should I give them credit?
Absolutely it doesn't mean he's wrong, but he won't put forth any actual facts to support his assertions. He's been pleaded with to explain how we are selling all of our talent (and I've provided my assertions for why we haven't), but he continues to ignore it.

I don't really like or trust FSG, but they are a necessary evil as fan ownership is not going to work in this day and age and I don't know of any Scouse billionaires that are looking to buy the club?


Billy, maybe you should take a step back. You go on and on about how Skip was treated, well AP has the same degrading, caustic, grating slant to his posts as those people that you condemned for slagging off Skip.

Not to mention, he's nowhere to be seen when things are going "well". He only crawls out from under his rock when there's some uphevel, almost as if he's got an agenda to try and unsettle things further.

All I can say FLRed is maybe you should look in the mirror, you keep throwing Skip back at me for detesting the posters who led to him leaving this forum. I happen to know that Skip is more of a Liverpool supporter than some of his detractors that you  promote. Now I do not know the first thing about American Plant as also applies to you regarding allegiances to L F.C. and that is the sad part about the internet, how would anyone know if you were a Fenway stooge. You just have to take posters at face value and hope that they are genuine REDS.

Billy,

It is possible to form an opinion and express it without acting like a c**t is it not?

Don't like FSG fine...no problem but to consistently come in like a propaganda machine, insult other posters who think differently and then disappear when asked to provide proof to the claims is bullshit.

He disappears when we are doing good, reappears at the slightest inkling of problems and then belittle other posters while spamming the exact same lines over and over again.

I disagree with 75% of Feds posts, and i get tired of reading about Henderson and Allen...but that being said I would take 100 Fed's any day of the week because at least he debates his ideas and in general is a nice fellow that even when disagreeing treats other posters with civility.

I would expect better and would think you would also.

AZ I have no dispute with you  but lets face it you were treated with some suspicion when you first started posting on LFCREDS on matters relating to Fenway. We were all pleased when Fenway took over from the vermin Hicks and Gillette but we have got to start seeing some silverware in the trophy cupboard ,being nearly winners will not do. Like you I also expect better from Liverpool supporters but far too many posters are quick to jump on the bandwagon of whatever topic is controversial.

All I can say FLRed is maybe you should look in the mirror, you keep throwing Skip back at me for detesting the posters who led to him leaving this forum. I happen to know that Skip is more of a Liverpool supporter than some of his detractors that you  promote. Now I do not know the first thing about American Plant as also applies to you regarding allegiances to L F.C. and that is the sad part about the internet, how would anyone know if you were a Fenway stooge. You just have to take posters at face value and hope that they are genuine REDS.

I don't question Skip's dedication to this club, if you want to question mine that's fine. I'm not local, I can't pop down to Anfield whenever I like, I can only follow and support from a distance and likely that's the best I can ever do. If that's not enough then I guess I'll never be "good enough" for some dyed in the wool locals. With the way that us foreigners are regarded by some on this forum I sometimes wonder why I persist but there are some good folks on here that do give LFC supporters a good name so I'll stick around in hopes that I'll someday be able to share a beer or a matchday experience with them.

If FSG don't initiate a change in the transfer policy, then we can only assume they are fully on board with it. This summer will tell a tale, although so did last summer!